Hi friends! I'm sitting at a Starbucks an hour and a half from home, and Luke's PPE is onsite at a vet in less than 1.5 hours! I'm so nervous - I had crazy dreams about it last night.
I'm solo, so while I'll obviously be listening to all of the vet's observations, I'm the one who needs to decide what does and doesn't work for me to manage and live with.
As a reminder:
I need a hardy horse who can live out in an unlimited grass pasture in a herd setting
I will primarily be trail riding with arena work and natural horsemanship clinics
I am already planning on the basic exam, metabolic testing and front hoof x-rays. I already know he has eye allergies and needs sedation for sheath cleaning. I would just love experienced
I'll start posting to the thread based on what I see / learn starting at noon Pacific.
Hi... It's a very exciting time and can be nerve-wracking as well.
I don't know what time frame the current owner expects you to commit or not to them. One of the things I was advised to do, when I put our deposit down & committed to the vet check, was to make sure that the horse was not being riden by somebody else in the meantime. I could not stop the owner from riding the horse, but anybody else who might be looking at the horse could potentially cause an issue. The owners were okay with that, but I think you're past that point already.
On my pre-purchases, I got a full written report and that was a good thing because I could not remember everything the vet said because my mind was going 5 million miles an hour. I still have the notes I took but it wasn't even close to being as comprehensive as the document I got from the vet. The blood work might take a little bit to get back to you as far as results go. You may want to remember to ask for a copy of the x-rays for your records if you do wind up getting the horse.
I'm likely going to ask the owner for at least the rest of the day to digest everything - is that fair?
Yes, we're past that point and I hadn't put down a deposit nor asked for the horse not to be ridden, but I know she hasn't shown him to anyone else. She may have ridden him or her students but she's gotten him some proactive body work and I know is trying to keep him in one piece before today
Have you got a list of things that are automatic "stop the exam, no point in continuing past this point" items? Those can save you a bunch of money on the PPE and save you heart ache on the purchase.
Certain things for me are:
Cribbing
Laminitis
Weaving
Certain maintenance issues
Get better definition of the eye allergy thing for Luke and find out what kinds of treatments are available for him
Have you got a list of things that are automatic "stop the exam, no point in continuing past this point" items? Those can save you a bunch of money on the PPE and save you heart ache on the purchase.
Certain things for me are:
Cribbing
Laminitis
Weaving
Certain maintenance issues
Get better definition of the eye allergy thing for Luke and find out what kinds of treatments are available for him
Watch the vet and how long and how tight he holds the horses legs/feet during the lameness portion of the exam. Depending on how long and how tightly he holds the joints flexed, then asks the horse to trot off, the horse will trot off "lame" but it may or may not be good indication of problems.
In addition to the "hard stop" decision...The only other thing that came to mind for me based on my prior experience is what to do if the vet throws something at you you've never heard of before or don't really know how to assess. For example, in one PPE I did the vet said- we've got some early signs of high ringbone here- do you want extra images? And I really had no background knowledge for how to answer that, so just said yes. Another example, my current mare absolutely refused the dental exam in the PPE. It was sort of awkward when vet was asking owner if this was a typical behavior ("of course not!" was owner's answer 😉), and asking both me and the owner if she should sedate to do a more complete exam. I ended up taking the chance and not having her sedated to do the dental exam, but that surely could have come back to bite me (luckily it didn't).
In addition to the "hard stop" decision...The only other thing that came to mind for me based on my prior experience is what to do if the vet throws something at you you've never heard of before or don't really know how to assess. For example, in one PPE I did the vet said- we've got some early signs of high ringbone here- do you want extra images? And I really had no background knowledge for how to answer that, so just said yes. Another example, my current mare absolutely refused the dental exam in the PPE. It was sort of awkward when vet was asking owner if this was a typical behavior ("of course not!" was owner's answer 😉), and asking both me and the owner if she should sedate to do a more complete exam. I ended up taking the chance and not having her sedated to do the dental exam, but that surely could have come back to bite me (luckily it didn't).
Good points here. I'd add Ringbone to things in a young horse that I'd put a hard stop on, at least in a $10K horse, I would. For $2500 I'd do Xrays and think about it. But as young as he is, it would be a hard no, for me. Dental, I'd sedate and see why the horse was being so adamant about not being examined. And if that ended up being the case, I'd go ahead and have the sheath cleaned while the vet was out there. Do you have copies of the Coggins and last Vaccinations so you can see when everything was done last? Not just owner's word?
I should have have thought of videoing it. But he’s doing great so far. A cosmetic only issue on a tendon. A slight something in one eye that could maybe someday lead to a vision issue but that is highly rare and unlikely per vet.
Hooves looked great on test, should I x ray regardless?
I didn't get a PPE for my horse, so I'm not much help there, but by cosmetic issue what is it, and what is the slight something in one eye, was the vet specific?
Of course PPE's don't guarantee everything for the future though.
X-rays wouldn't hurt, they never do. Just depends on how much you are willing to spend before getting the horse (if you do decide to get him after all). He's cute, how old is he?
It’s the extensor tendon. The vet couldn’t even define the eye. It isn’t even a spot, just like barely a whisper of anything. I’ll have the report in a few minutes.
his X-rays looked great. He has (I cannot remember the name) some calcification (vs carteledge) around the top of his hoof wall but it’s nothing to worry about.
Vet said it’s the cleanest and best PPE she’s done in a long time, and that she never says that. 😳😍
was this your Vet that did the ppe ? If not send the info to your Vet to get your Vets opinion ! I would wonder about the calcification in the hoof, what exactly was in the eye, and the blood work. Did the horses heart and lungs sound good ?
I would have all ready put money down on that little beauty before someone else does, hes quite handsome and looks healthy with those bright and large eyes and being so alert. .
I'd do it if she asked, and I know she isn't showing him to other people. He's very alert and attentive - was taking everything in at the vet but taking it in stride. Should I offer a deposit to hold him until the bloodwork comes back you think?
If the bloodwork results are your last checklist item, maybe a deposit or a right-of-first-refusal
(as is sometimes done in real estate)... I don't know how close you are with the seller, but I wouldn't think you'd offend them. Unfortunately, you're going to have to probably create that paperwork off the top of your head.
Our current boy had a 'something' r-eye issue that was found during his pre-purchase and that was over 15 years ago. It did not stop him or affect him at all. The vet said I just need to tell you everything, but she thought it was not a show stopper. She also said he might have some potential future hock issues (heavily trained & shown at a relatively young age) that the vet said as long as I was going to use him primarily for trail rides that would not be an issue. Again, she was right.
Yes bloodwork is my last checklist item. I don't know the seller at all - she's a woman I met because she's selling her horse. That said, she's been generous with her time, would be giving me a lot of equipment for free and while I'd need to keep him onsite where she is, she said she'd keep an eye on him for me on the days I couldn't come out. I don't mind creating paperwork.
Vet saw nothing that was any concern for what I'd use him for and how he'd be living.
One thing that is a little annoying (and maybe I'm being a jerk): She has his registration paper but never kept any vet records. To be fair I don't have hard copies for my dog but it'd be the work of moments to call the two vets I've used and request them.
She can likely call and request vet records from the vet she's been using. I also don't keep hard files; only a screenshot of the pdf of my horse's current vaccinations and coggins to have on hand for show entries.
Having the registration paper, IMO, is a way bigger deal as that is a HEADACHE to get sorted once it gets lost or doesn't get transferred.
If you finalize Luke's purchase, try not to allow your paperwork to include a locked-in commitment to boarding him there... Or did I misunderstand a previous post referencing that?
It's been a long day for you. Sounds like it was a good one as well. If I were in your place, my mind would be racing and my list of things to do would be very lengthy. 🙃
Her sale ad had his price listed at firm. I'm normally one to negotiate anything, because why not? But I actually feel like I have no leverage here. He's young, really healthy, is coming with a lot of tack/equipment, etc.
Should I just grin and bear it and offer what she's asking, or come in a little lower? Just not sure what leg I'd have to stand on to offer less.
DO NOT quibble about the price. It would really REALLY tiss me off if my sale ad clearly state “non-negotiable price” and someone tried to negotiate anyway. If I were in the wrong frame of mind, I could just as easily say, “see ya, by”.
That horse is a looker, she won’t have any problem selling him, if you keep hesitating over price and picayune issues🤠
I wouldn't offer less. It sounds like she's being really nice -- why try to ask for more, especially if the ad says "firm"? If I were her and things were at this point, and you then offered less I'd be really ticked off.
You can offer...
The owner can always say no.... or you can offer because you don't want/need all she is including.
Sounds the owner is getting out of horses and cleaning house at the same time...not a bad deal if all the included were for this horses use.
Politely done to offer a bit less, but you also if she says no then say "I wanted to ask but understand and full price advertised at it is"...
If there was any negative in the vet findings and PPE then that is a negotiating point....otherwise...plan on paying full amount and be pleasantly surprised if its less.
🐴....
I've always been one where if I know I want something, and the price is fair & reasonable, I don't like to mess around with trying to negotiate.
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