[ChingazMyBoy]

Heyy,

Its getting to a point where its unsafe!

So resently I've started lunging Chinga again, I haven't been able to get anyone out with me to help, nor have I picked up my yards yet. So I was trying to lunge him today, I do know how to lunge a horse because I've lunged the school horses for my instructor and a few green horses. But I'm really having trouble with Chinga. He use to be really bad, then he got good but now his gone back to bad. I guess this is because I haven't had time to lunge him lately. So I'm planning on re-training him to lunge. What he tends to do is turn in at you and then you'll eaither step round him and make him keep going and he'll just keep ducking in again, or I'll push him out and he'll run off bucking. Its getting to a point where it is unsafe, his got a rope around his legs, that he can easily fall on and when he does buck out, I have no choice but to let go of the rope otherwise I will have a hoof in my face. The other thing he does is pulls outwards, I've though about giving him a sharp pull on the rope. But for one reason or another I cannot see this working. I'm hoping to get mum to come out once every second day *as every day is nearly impossible for her with both my sisters sports. Getting her to walk the circle with while I stand in the middle giving him the cues and her slowly coming in and getting him to stay out. I tried to get video today, but it didn't really work. But I got video of the results.






So even though it looks cool, it is purly unhelpful and dangerous, in one of them you can see how close he is to me. Don't get me wrong he is an excellent horse, but I believe he is slightly scared of the lunge (we've done LOTS of desensitizing to the gear).

 

[Seahorseys]

what do you lunge him in and with? do you lunge him in that open field always?

 

[ChingazMyBoy]

Yeah, because at the moment I don't have yards. His in a halter usually and has a lunge rope, sometimes boots. Thats about it.

 

[Mercedes]

He's not scared. He's just got your number. He knows you can't make him. He knows you can't hold him.

1. More turnout. If a horse has that kind of energy to burn, they need to have more time to run and play to blow it off BEFORE any kind of work can begin. He also looks to be in very good weight, so I wonder if an adjustment to his concentrates isn't also in order.

2. Enclosed area. Once they learn they can leave whenever they want, you're stuck. Work him someplace, where if he does get loose, he can't go far.

3. Longeing Cavesson. You have no control longeing in a halter. They can whip the head around and they are gone. A longeing cavesson applies pressure to the sensitive nose. A horse hits the end of that and they'll usually think twice about trying it again. The term is called 'leverage', and right now, you've got none and he knows it.

4. Wait for experienced help. You're in over your head at this point and a habit is being created that becomes infinitely more difficult to correct the more times it is allowed to happen.

5. Research. I'm not entirely convinced you do know how to longe, or that you've been taught properly...per the outcome with this horse. So grab a book on longeing and start learning on your own, so you can identify if the person teaching you firsthand knows what they are doing.

 

[PaytonSidesHorsemanship]

This horse needs to have his oxygen taken away in the round pen one good time. And I'm not talking about choking, I'm talking about work. If you don't have a round pen, get good control of his hip and disengage it when he tries that mess. If that don't work have someone, who is strong enough, pull him off balance a few times when he tries that mess.

 

[PaytonSidesHorsemanship]

Sound advice!!

He's not scared. He's just got your number. He knows you can't make him. He knows you can't hold him.

1. More turnout. If a horse has that kind of energy to burn, they need to have more time to run and play to blow it off BEFORE any kind of work can begin. He also looks to be in very good weight, so I wonder if an adjustment to his concentrates isn't also in order.

2. Enclosed area. Once they learn they can leave whenever they want, you're stuck. Work him someplace, where if he does get loose, he can't go far.

3. Longeing Cavesson. You have no control longeing in a halter. They can whip the head around and they are gone. A longeing cavesson applies pressure to the sensitive nose. A horse hits the end of that and they'll usually think twice about trying it again. The term is called 'leverage', and right now, you've got none and he knows it.

4. Wait for experienced help. You're in over your head at this point and a habit is being created that becomes infinitely more difficult to correct the more times it is allowed to happen.

5. Research. I'm not entirely convinced you do know how to longe, or that you've been taught properly...per the outcome with this horse. So grab a book on longeing and start learning on your own, so you can identify if the person teaching you firsthand knows what they are doing.

 

[mls]

3. Longeing Cavesson. You have no control longeing in a halter. They can whip the head around and they are gone. A longeing cavesson applies pressure to the sensitive nose. A horse hits the end of that and they'll usually think twice about trying it again. The term is called 'leverage', and right now, you've got none and he knows it.

I will disagree. A correctly fitted halter will work very well

 

[kevinshorses]

I would work on leading. I know you think he leads fine and the problem is on the lunge but he needs help leading. I would start with getting him to lower his head . Put one hand on his poll and one hand where the lead attaches to the halter. Don't pull just let themsit there untill the horse moves his head down and then release your hands. When you can position his head anywhere you want then move on to moving his feet. Using as little pressure as possible get him to move one front foot forward one step and only one step. You will have to move his head to the left so he can shift his wieght and move the right foot and vice versa. You should be able to move only one foot forward and backward without taking the slack out of the lead. Then you can teach him to yield his hindquarters a little better making sure that he is crossing in front of the outside leg.

What this will do is get him to move with your feel and he won't need to go bucking off when you try to lunge him. If he does need to run off you need to see him getting ready and disengage his hindquarters and change his mind. I would not be real gentle about it.

 

[Indyhorse]

I agree with Payton (and Mercedes) get him in a round pen to work. Working on a line in an big open space like that invites him to cause trouble when he already knows he can get out of your hands. It's not doing him any good to lunge under those circumstances - it's just perpetuating the problem.

 

[kevinshorses]

I will disagree. A correctly fitted halter will work very well

unless the horse wants to run off then you can refer to the pictures above to see what happens. If you can control the horses nose you can control the whole body.

 

[mls]

unless the horse wants to run off then you can refer to the pictures above to see what happens. If you can control the horses nose you can control the whole body.

The horse is running off because been taught it can.

What I am saying is not everyone needs to run out and buy special equipment for every problem. In this case, a chain would work too. Run the chain from the ring on the opposite jowl piece, through the side ring, over the nose and through the ring on the near side. The head will stay down and the nose can be tipped in. But chains are not for people who can't give and take pressure instantly.

 

[Mercedes]

I will disagree. A correctly fitted halter will work very well

It can't possibly since you're comparing apples to oranges. Halter = loose = inconsistent pressure points. Cavesson = snug = consistent pressure point.

 

[Mercedes]

I would work on leading. I know you think he leads fine and the problem is on the lunge but he needs help leading.

Insert *thumbs up* emoticon here.

Totally agree, and excellent point to bring up. The horse does also have a leading problem.

 

[Mercedes]

In this case, a chain would work too. Run the chain from the ring on the opposite jowl piece, through the side ring, over the nose and through the ring on the near side. The head will stay down and the nose can be tipped in. But chains are not for people who can't give and take pressure instantly.

A chain? :shock:

When you give advice it really needs to fit the person and their abilities. To give this advice and then disclaimer it with your last sentence is silly. Clearly the OP doesn't know when to give and take or she wouldn't be in the situation she's in now.

 

[kevinshorses]

The horse is running off because been taught it can.

What I am saying is not everyone needs to run out and buy special equipment for every problem. In this case, a chain would work too. Run the chain from the ring on the opposite jowl piece, through the side ring, over the nose and through the ring on the near side. The head will stay down and the nose can be tipped in. But chains are not for people who can't give and take pressure instantly.

So you really just wanted to start an arguement on this thread also. Chains are not for people who want to use horsemanship rather than pain and force. If you need to buy a lungeing cavesson to keep your horses nose tipped in then do so. Don't be more forceful with your horse than you need to be just to save money.

 

[justsambam08]

Something else that no one has pointed out.....

In a post on the first page, the OP stated she lunges him in boots, a halter, and with a lunge line and nothing else. In the photos she posted, he was fully tacked up. Perhaps her skills or lack therof on how to lunge a horse are irrelevant. Her saddle might be too far back, may not fit, or she may not have tightened the girth enough, which would cause slippage, etc.

 

[ChingazMyBoy]

Something else that no one has pointed out.....

In a post on the first page, the OP stated she lunges him in boots, a halter, and with a lunge line and nothing else. In the photos she posted, he was fully tacked up. Perhaps her skills or lack therof on how to lunge a horse are irrelevant. Her saddle might be too far back, may not fit, or she may not have tightened the girth enough, which would cause slippage, etc.

I'm still reading threw everything but I got his saddle/back checked in January and it was perfect, the saddle was placed right and the girth was tight enough. I lunged him after I rode and I asked him to WALK on the lunge to cool off. I know my skills of lunging are fine, because I've lunged 2 year olds to old school masters and both my instructors have taught me the same way. I'm gong to ask Aamelia to lunge him next lesson in case I am doing something wrong.

 

[ChingazMyBoy]

He's not scared. He's just got your number. He knows you can't make him. He knows you can't hold him.

1. More turnout. If a horse has that kind of energy to burn, they need to have more time to run and play to blow it off BEFORE any kind of work can begin. He also looks to be in very good weight, so I wonder if an adjustment to his concentrates isn't also in order.

2. Enclosed area. Once they learn they can leave whenever they want, you're stuck. Work him someplace, where if he does get loose, he can't go far.

3. Longeing Cavesson. You have no control longeing in a halter. They can whip the head around and they are gone. A longeing cavesson applies pressure to the sensitive nose. A horse hits the end of that and they'll usually think twice about trying it again. The term is called 'leverage', and right now, you've got none and he knows it.

4. Wait for experienced help. You're in over your head at this point and a habit is being created that becomes infinitely more difficult to correct the more times it is allowed to happen.

5. Research. I'm not entirely convinced you do know how to longe, or that you've been taught properly...per the outcome with this horse. So grab a book on longeing and start learning on your own, so you can identify if the person teaching you firsthand knows what they are doing.

1. He gets all day to do this and spends it on five acers, so his got enough room/time.

2. I'm trying to get it, but at this time it is not possible. If this means not lunging him for a while then sure I'm all for it.

4. As I wrote below, I will be getting my instructor to lunge him for me next lesson.

 

[ChingazMyBoy]

I would work on leading. I know you think he leads fine and the problem is on the lunge but he needs help leading. I would start with getting him to lower his head . Put one hand on his poll and one hand where the lead attaches to the halter. Don't pull just let themsit there untill the horse moves his head down and then release your hands. When you can position his head anywhere you want then move on to moving his feet. Using as little pressure as possible get him to move one front foot forward one step and only one step. You will have to move his head to the left so he can shift his wieght and move the right foot and vice versa. You should be able to move only one foot forward and backward without taking the slack out of the lead. Then you can teach him to yield his hindquarters a little better making sure that he is crossing in front of the outside leg.

What this will do is get him to move with your feel and he won't need to go bucking off when you try to lunge him. If he does need to run off you need to see him getting ready and disengage his hindquarters and change his mind. I would not be real gentle about it.

I understand what you are saying but his general leading is perfect, this is because when I first got him I did lots of leading work with him and led him everywhere. He follows/walks beside me with his head low. I can get him to back up, circle, halt, side step, ect.

 

[ChingazMyBoy]

I agree with Payton (and Mercedes) get him in a round pen to work. Working on a line in an big open space like that invites him to cause trouble when he already knows he can get out of your hands. It's not doing him any good to lunge under those circumstances - it's just perpetuating the problem.

Thanks, I'm not going to lunge him until I can get a round pen/ smaller area. When I do get to lunge him, I might jump on him and get dad to lunge him (dad does know how to lunge). I've had people on him on the lunge and he goes well (just a thought).