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Remember - horses reflect 100% of what we do in the saddle, and regardless of what any school horse has been allowed to get away with, they know a good rider on them, when they meet them.

They know, that the rider who gets on them, can and cannot do - and if that ride is going to be easy peasy for them, or they'd better get on it and get it done. They aren't stupid.

Stop blaming the lesson horses for being taught incorrectly, and start looking at the holes in your training, for the reason why you are getting the results you are getting.


As taught by Ian Millar - "A good rider blames themselves, and a poor rider blames the horse."
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Remember - horses reflect 100% of what we do in the saddle, and regardless of what any school horse has been allowed to get away with, they know a good rider on them, when they meet them.

They know, that the rider who gets on them, can and cannot do - and if that ride is going to be easy peasy for them, or they'd better get on it and get it done. They aren't stupid.

Stop blaming the lesson horses for being taught incorrectly, and start looking at the holes in your training, for the reason why you are getting the results you are getting.


As taught by Ian Millar - "A good rider blames themselves, and a poor rider blames the horse."
Excuse me?!? I'm actually rather insulted. Are you calling me a poor rider? For your information, I've seen many people get on that horse, even advanced riders, and she hasn't give any of them a good canter. But she's given me a better canter than what she's done for them. You want me to look at the reasons that I am getting the results I'm getting? Okay, I'll look into the reasons why she gives me a better ride than she gives them.

I don't use a crop and spurs, because she hates them. I believe in working with the horse and not against her. I don't treat her like she's just a stubborn mule like most people, I actually give her a chance. And most of all, I DON'T just blame her! I don't just think, I know that she has been trained incorrectly, but that's not her fault. I'm not just going to settle for that. I posted this question because I need to change my riding to get a better canter out of her.

It's true - horses are not stupid. When I get on Holiday, she knows she needs to work. She tries very hard. She's sweet and honest. But when she canters, she's unsteady, like she doesn't know if she should trot or canter. I see her do this for everyone, because no matter how clear your cues are, she just doesn't know. Maybe it's my fault, that's true. But if it's my fault, I want to know how to fix it.

I am perfectly willing to admit that there are some things that I should change about my riding. I'm not a perfect rider. I know that. But I also know that it's not 100% my fault, as you seem to think. It's both of ours - mine and the horse - and we need to work together to figure it out.

So if the reason she doesn't give me an amazing canter is because I have big holes in my training, then in that case everyone who has ridden her has big holes in their training. You can ask anyone who's ridden that pony, and they'll all tell you the same thing.

I'm so sick of this. I posted this thread because I wanted legit answers, and all I'm getting is arguements. You guys are treating me like I'm some kind of troll! There are a few people who actually gave me good advice, and thank you to those who did. But most people just argued with me. I didn't mean to start an arguement, I just wanted advice! Can't you respect that?
 

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Why don't you get a video of you riding this horse so we have a better understanding of what you are and are not doing.

It is very hard to give assessments when we have only a description and can't see things you may not even be aware of.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Eek. Sorry but I can't post any videos online. However, I can get some pictures after my next lesson. Would that help?
 

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Eek. Sorry but I can't post any videos online. However, I can get some pictures after my next lesson. Would that help?

Yes please post pictures if you can't do a video. The more pictures you post the easier it may be.
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
Oh, bad news... I just found out that my next lesson is cancelled. It'll be a while before I can get any pictures or videos of me on that specific pony. However, I do have some of me on other horses. They're only from a couple weeks ago. Can you look at them anyways, and see if there's any obvious errors that I'm making that might affect how I'm doing on Holiday? Thanks. (and sorry for the bad quality)

This first one is on a bit of an angle. It's just at a walk, so you can see my overall position.



This one, too, is just at a walk. It was at a show. I know one of my hands is back, that's because I was turning (or about to, anyways). And yes, I noticed that my heel came up, so you don't need to point that out. :)




Okay, I lied. I do have videos. I managed to dig them up, so here they are. This one is of a simple canter. I know it looks like my back is slumped, but I was wearing a heavy jacket that covered my back. I can assure you, my back was not actually that rounded.

cam515.mp4 video by sandstorm8922 - Photobucket

This one's just at a trot. I'm not sure if it'll be much help, but you might pick something out of it. Again, my jacket makes my back look very rounded, even though it was not (I always make a point to put a tiny arch in my back while riding). It makes me cringe just to see how bad it looks...

cam505.mp4 video by sandstorm8922 - Photobucket

This is the last video. It's just a very tiny little jump, since we were just warming up. I don't think you can see much, but if you can, please critique.

cam527.mp4 video by sandstorm8922 - Photobucket

I know the videos are short and hard to see, but right now they're the best I've got. I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks!
 

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My post 10 is somewhat on the mark.

You are a passenger and while you have your lower leg on, your upper body is "just going along with the horse". You are in effect being a passenger.

Your seat is very loose and what should be your most important riding aid ( the seat) just isn't there. In the picture you posted re pulling your arm in, well you should not be turning a horse on a direct rein unless the rider is a rank beginner or the horse is.

The connection via the rein contact is inconsistent and it seems other than giving the horse the odd "correction" ( the end of the jumping video) or as in the other videos a slight tug here and there, the horse is pretty well just doing his thing and you are happily going along.
 

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I think that is a rather harsh assessment . It's hard to see much detail in the videos, such as your hands or whether your leg is on or not.
I see a fairly nicely balanced hunter rider and a very nice school horse. I dont' see any obvious rider behaviors that I would say are clearly why the pony won't sustain a canter. She may not be actively affecting the horse at all times, but she certainly isn't interfering with it at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
My post 10 is somewhat on the mark.

You are a passenger and while you have your lower leg on, your upper body is "just going along with the horse". You are in effect being a passenger.

Your seat is very loose and what should be your most important riding aid ( the seat) just isn't there. In the picture you posted re pulling your arm in, well you should not be turning a horse on a direct rein unless the rider is a rank beginner or the horse is.

The connection via the rein contact is inconsistent and it seems other than giving the horse the odd "correction" ( the end of the jumping video) or as in the other videos a slight tug here and there, the horse is pretty well just doing his thing and you are happily going along.
Thanks for the feedback. But what do you mean by 'my seat is loose'? I'm not really understanding.

Also, another thing about your critique did not make sense to me. In the second paragraph you told me that I shouldn't use my reins as much. In the third paragraph you told me I should use them more. I though the rider has to have only slight signals, to keep them invisible...

Another thing is, I've heard that an experianced rider can sit on the horse and not look like they're doing anything, but still have complete control. Though I'm not sure that's the case with me, I know that it would be nearly impossible to simply be a 'passenger' on that horse. She tends to either be slow, lazy and stubborn or acting like an excited racehorse. Finding a happy medium is the job of the rider, and it's not an easy one. (You can tell that she's paying attention to the rider if you look at her ears. One of them is aways flicked back and listening to me.)

I'm not saying that your critique was wrong, I just don't really understand. Please explain? Thanks. :)
 

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Thanks for the feedback. But what do you mean by 'my seat is loose'? I'm not really understanding.
Basically you are not in synch with the horse. I realize that you are a hunter rider and therefore do not SIT on the horse but even they will have a quiet seat and will use their calves more. In the canter you seat bounces up and down in the saddle. If you ride dressage that seat stays in the saddle...if you ride hunter then it maintains a quietness with no bouncing.

In the trot the posting looks forced.

Also, another thing about your critique did not make sense to me. In the second paragraph you told me that I shouldn't use my reins as much. In the third paragraph you told me I should use them more. I though the rider has to have only slight signals, to keep them invisible...
In the trot video on the first minuet the rein was on then off then on then off. In the corner you had the horse looking to the outside and it went crooked because at that critical moment of cornering you had the reins dropped and the horse was unsupported.

The part I referred to with you using the rein too much was in reference to the picture. You simply pulled the horse to make a turn. This is called a direct rein and used when the horse does not understand the riders aids to move off the leg. It is also used by beginner riders as they also don't know leg aids yet.

Another thing is, I've heard that an experienced rider can sit on the horse and not look like they're doing anything, but still have complete control. Though I'm not sure that's the case with me, I know that it would be nearly impossible to simply be a 'passenger' on that horse. She tends to either be slow, lazy and stubborn or acting like an excited racehorse. Finding a happy medium is the job of the rider, and it's not an easy one. (You can tell that she's paying attention to the rider if you look at her ears. One of them is always flicked back and listening to me.)

I'm not saying that your critique was wrong, I just don't really understand. Please explain? Thanks. :)
Nice to have the horse flick their ears back at you but unfortunately you need to rider more than the ears. Nowhere an any of the videos did I see a horse either round or balanced. Nowhere did I see a horse that either accepted the bit or worked with it to listen to any aid you may have given.
Contrary to what tiny said this in not a hunter frame as nowhere did I see a nice long frame with a relaxed hunter stride, but rather an inverted one with no real acceptance of the bit and short strides that would not garnish any ribbons in a hunter class unless all the horses beng judged were school horses.

What I did see is a typical school horse that is used to doing things and doing them simply because "that is what it does". The other horse in the arena is doing the exact same thing.

I would expect to see exactly this if I went to watch a lesson on the barn's school horses.

Horses like these are actually in high demand as they help the rider gain confidence and those riders that are willing to make a huge leap to an privately owned horse will get a confidence boost to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
Basically you are not in synch with the horse. I realize that you are a hunter rider and therefore do not SIT on the horse but even they will have a quiet seat and will use their calves more. In the canter you seat bounces up and down in the saddle. If you ride dressage that seat stays in the saddle...if you ride hunter then it maintains a quietness with no bouncing.

In the trot the posting looks forced.

In the trot video on the first minuet the rein was on then off then on then off. In the corner you had the horse looking to the outside and it went crooked because at that critical moment of cornering you had the reins dropped and the horse was unsupported.

The part I referred to with you using the r
picture. You simply pulled the horse to make a turn. This is called a direct rein and used when the horse does not understand the riders aids to move off the leg. It is also used by beginner riders as they also don't know leg aids yet.

Nice to have the horse flick their ears back at you but unfortunately you need to rider more than the ears. Nowhere an any of the videos did I see a horse either round or balanced. Nowhere did I see a horse that either accepted the bit or worked with it to listen to any aid you may have given.
Contrary to what tiny said this in not a hunter frame as nowhere did I see a nice long frame with a relaxed hunter stride, but rather an inverted one with no real acceptance of the bit and short strides that would not garnish any ribbons in a hunter class unless all the horses beng judged were school horses.

What I did see is a typical school horse that is used to doing things and doing them simply because "that is what it does". The other horse in the arena is doing the exact same thing.

I would expect to see exactly this if I went to watch a lesson on the barn's school horses.

Horses like these are actually in high demand as they help the rider gain confidence and those riders that are willing to make a huge leap to an privately owned horse will get a confidence boost to do so.
Fair enough. The only thing is, when I was cantering, my seat was only lifting a couple inches out of the saddle. I wasn't thumping on the horse's back either. I don't know if it looks like that in the video, but as the rider I know I can feel how hard I land on the horse's back and I was not thumping. So I don't know what you mean by bouncing.

Also, you told me what I was doing wrong but you never told me how to fix it. Need I remind you, good critique includes feedback on what the rider is doing correctly, what the rider is doing incorrectly, and how to fix what is incorrect. Though I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, your replies to my pictures and videos came off more as an insult than helpful advice. For example, saying 'your posting seems forced' but not telling me how it does or how to fix it makes it seem like you're just insulting me. That's only one example, but I'm not going to list things.

Of course, I'm very sure that you weren't trying to be rude or hurtful. I'm probably just taking it the wrong way, I'll admit that. But all the same, your reply did make me feel quite bad about myself. I don't want to start a fight, and so I am attempting to state my opinion in a respectful and mature way way. In return, I ask that you do the same. (not that you arent already) All I can ask is that if you wish to tell me what I'm doing wrong, please give me advice on how I can fix it and improve.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Oh and also, I recently entered a hunter show. The horses were not all schooling horses. I got second place. (/\)
 

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Fair enough. The only thing is, when I was cantering, my seat was only lifting a couple inches out of the saddle. I wasn't thumping on the horse's back either. I don't know if it looks like that in the video, but as the rider I know I can feel how hard I land on the horse's back and I was not thumping. So I don't know what you mean by bouncing.

Also, you told me what I was doing wrong but you never told me how to fix it. Need I remind you, good critique includes feedback on what the rider is doing correctly, what the rider is doing incorrectly, and how to fix what is incorrect. Though I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, your replies to my pictures and videos came off more as an insult than helpful advice. For example, saying 'your posting seems forced' but not telling me how it does or how to fix it makes it seem like you're just insulting me. That's only one example, but I'm not going to list things.

Of course, I'm very sure that you weren't trying to be rude or hurtful. I'm probably just taking it the wrong way, I'll admit that. But all the same, your reply did make me feel quite bad about myself. I don't want to start a fight, and so I am attempting to state my opinion in a respectful and mature way way. In return, I ask that you do the same. (not that you arent already) All I can ask is that if you wish to tell me what I'm doing wrong, please give me advice on how I can fix it and improve.

You have a coach I assume you pay good money for so I suggest you look to them for advice.

Good for you on your second place.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
You have a coach I assume you pay good money for so I suggest you look to them for advice.

Good for you on your second place.
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of critiquing? o_O
 

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I think that is a rather harsh assessment . It's hard to see much detail in the videos, such as your hands or whether your leg is on or not.

I see a fairly nicely balanced hunter rider and a very nice school horse. I dont' see any obvious rider behaviors that I would say are clearly why the pony won't sustain a canter. She may not be actively affecting the horse at all times, but she certainly isn't interfering with it at all.
I see what Spyder saw.

There are quite a few things I saw that I can point out, but I wont - why bother.

~~~

To the OP, I think you need to have a good discussion with your Coach, and discuss about taking dressage lessons. Improve and solidify that lower leg, your seat, and your core.

You want to know how to keep the horse cantering, I will just re-emphasize what you've already been told - Either take a crop and spur with you, or learn how to use your seat and your lower legs.

Again, sit down and discuss this with your coach. All the best to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I see what Spyder saw.

There are quite a few things I saw that I can point out, but I wont - why bother.

~~~

To the OP, I think you need to have a good discussion with your Coach, and discuss about taking dressage lessons. Improve and solidify that lower leg, your seat, and your core.

You want to know how to keep the horse cantering, I will just re-emphasize what you've already been told - Either take a crop and spur with you, or learn how to use your seat and your lower legs.

Again, sit down and discuss this with your coach. All the best to you.
I am going to discuss it with my coach, but she is only one person. It'll be a while before I get to see her again anyways. So I'd love to hear from you in the mean time.

I apologize - maybe it is coming off like I simply don't want to listen to any advice. Or at least, that's all everyone thinks of me now. But you have to understand, that's really not what I intended. Honestly, the only thing I don't want to hear is people telling me to use a crop and spurs, and I've stated that from the very beginning in the original post. I do want to hear your critique. But I also want to know how to fix what I'm doing wrong. Otherwise asking for critique is pretty much pointless.

Yes, I told Spyder I didnt understand a bunch of thigs, and he (or she) explained them to me. I can't argue. There was still one thing about my canter that Spyder said that I still didn't understand, and I'm still open to explanations. But to become a better rider I have to learn from my mistakes. Just listing off everything I'm doing wrong and leaving it at that doesn't help me do that.

Again, I apologize if I set that kind of image for myself. I do hear what you want to say. I might need to clarify some things, but I still want to hear it.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I'm actually really sorry, and this is to everyone. I didn't think that saying what I said would make such a big impact. I was just stating my opinion, but maybe I did that the wrong way. Right now I've been trying to undo everything, but you can probably tell that's not working so well in my favor. I do want to hear what people have to say. I've been on this forum for quite a while and this never happened. I guess it was all just one wrong thread and it all fell apart. I never intended for this to happen, and I'm going to stop it right here. So say what you want to say and I'll shut up and listen, even if I don't agree. Because I'd rather listen to things I don't agree with than have everyone here dislike me.
 

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No one here dislikes you, frustrated perhaps, but not dislike. I applaud you for asking your questions, and I applaud you for taking that one step forward in posting pics and vids.

Lookit - don't get me wrong, I'm no perfect rider either. I have holes in my training, but it takes a rider to admit their faults, before they can progress forward and improve. As my Coach says - "why work on what you already know, and work on what you don't?" or "Why work on what you can do, and work on what you can't".

But - before you can do that, you have to know what it is. You can't fix what you don't know is wrong.

So, tell me, what is it that you see in your video's, that you can improve on, what you are lacking, and what you need to fix. Let's take that step first, and then we can help you as best as we can, so that you can take the information, and approach your coach with it, and ask her "why haven't you targeted this?"

The issues I have with some lesson barns, not all - there are some pretty darn tootin' amazing barns out there, are that Coaches say "good job, great, that was nice, ok, next" instead of targeting the holes in their students riding skills, to help their students grow, and improve and learn.

So yes, you do need to talk to your parents, you need to shed light in the situation, and then you need to sit down with your coach, and discuss the needed steps to take, to help you grow, mature and improve.
 
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