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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So my Arab (who is 22) started chewing manes and tails at 20. She has all the vits and minerals. I actualy think its because she wants to chew on things but she is not aloud to eat hay after choking years ago. Scar tissue from that and the fact she eats in 5 min what takes a bigfer horse 30 to eat in hay.
She is going to be stalled in a pen with oir 28 year old. I want to stop her from.eating all of her mane and tail off. I read you can mix vasoline and pepper or hotsauce together and put that on the tail but that may be an issue for skin contact so is out for her maybe. Could I try MTG? Some tings i read said to slather conditiener on the mane and tail. Anyone have luck with that?
 

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If the root of the problem is that she can't have hay due to eating it too fast, would you consider an ultra-slow feed net? They make ones with teeny tiny holes so it seems to me like there is almost no chance of choke... But it would keep her from chewing the other horse's tail.

As for MTG, it does smell like barbecue sauce so that may work!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
she has eaten a couple slow nets... like actually ingested 90% of them within 3 hours... THAT was some fun poop watching. i even made her a slow feeder out of fencing. and she destroyed that too. but she is not aloud hay at all because of how bad she choked and the scar tissue now. she aspirated on they hay. and entier flakes worth of food was lodged in her esophagus and 8 inches of food was lodged in her windpipe. she had it in her lungs it was so bad. she was given 40% chance of survival. SOOOO after THAT mess that was the last straw. vet agreed. she gets soaked pellets. she cant choke on mush. if she does then its her time i guess. I did try soaked hey but that still was sketchy.

note the metal slow feeder did not slow her down either. she just beat it and broke it and tried to fling it around to make it drop food. but she went 2 years without hay before she started eating manes and tails so i dont know if its related or not.
 

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I kept my foal from eating my mare's tail by using a cheap, but hot, tabasco type hot sauce from the dollar store. That worked liberally applied to her tail. It also made her tail yucky and orange, but it was better than no tail at all.

I agree she probably wants some fiber in her diet though. :frown_color:
 

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We usually use diesel.
 

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I always used the juice from jalapeno peppers mixed with white vinegar and sprayed on tails when I had a foal that started chewing them. Always worked until Flash came along and he liked hot vinegar so in desperation I grabbed a jar of Vicks and that cured him. Never had to deal with a mane chewer so I can't say if they'd harm the skin under the mane. I wouldn't think the Vicks would since we use it on our own skin but it would get messy if you had to use it all the time. With the foals after a couple of weeks they were cured of the habit and you could wash the stuff out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I kept my foal from eating my mare's tail by using a cheap, but hot, tabasco type hot sauce from the dollar store. That worked liberally applied to her tail. It also made her tail yucky and orange, but it was better than no tail at all.

I agree she probably wants some fiber in her diet though. :frown_color:
wish i could. but the scar tissue will cause her to choke again. i tried a few handfuls of soaked bermuda and that got kinda stuck but luckily she worked it out before the vet got involved (while i was calling said vet). i wont forget the blood coming out her nose too. she was foaming blood and lord knows what out of her mouth during that choke. i thought about getting hay cubes and soaking them but they are expensive and normally have garbage in them. and she eats anything so bits of plastic bag will go down the hatch quickly.

im hopeing she kicks the habbit it the mane and tail are nasty.
 

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You can put pellets in "The Amazing Graze" feeder, but not sure about soaked. Do they chew on tail bags? Perhaps you can apply spicy/bitter to the bag rather than the hair directly.
 

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How about spraying some apple cider vinegar in the tail? It tastes funky, works great if the horse has any dandruff, and repels bugs as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
i put ACV in their feed weekly and they like it so that wont work. shed think it was nicly flavored lol! and tail bags, halters wood really nothing is safe with this mare. imagine she is a onory 6 month old. but 15hh and will be stalled with a 14hh horse so mane is reachable. ill try vacaline first. im also looking into that cribox too
 

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It is due to nutritional imbalance, &/or hunger ime.

Never heard of choking causing scar tissue & then inability to eat hay. What does she eat instead of hay?

Are you sure she is getting enough not to go hungry between 'meals'? If she eats hay too fast, this could be due to going hungry between feeds. Could be remedied by 'slow feeding'.

I would NOT be trying to just prevent her eating her mates tail, with hot sauce or otherwise, but would look at this as a symptom & address the cause.
 

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Agree with @loosie.
I'd go with the hay cubes, which you can soak as well. I have to believe you can buy hay cubes that are free from garbage...horse owners around here would throw a riot if they bought hay cubes that had trash in the bags. I also can't believe it would be more economical to feed hay pellets versus cubes since they are comparable in price everywhere I've ever seen. Anything more "complete" than a hay pellet would be much more expensive as well.

The horse is obviously feeling deprived of roughage and is not getting enough.
Are you feeding any beet pulp? If you feed a couple pounds of beet pulp daily it would also help the horse have more intake time and also add to the roughage in the diet. It can also be a cost saver by giving more volume of feed (it expands a ton when soaked) per pound versus pellets.

I'd hate to take away the other horse's fly swatting ability by slathering down the tail with goo. A lot of things we use on manes and tails don't taste good to horses. I've noticed horses avoid grooming each others' manes when they have cowboy magic in them or fly spray.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
im in arizona. i find dead things and plastic in hay all the time. and she eats soaked pellets. after her choking she coughs when lunged and the vet advised soaked food for now on. i have tried slow feeders. she used to get fed 4 times a day because feeders though she missed her she ate so fast. she nearly died from choking. she has several times since always on hay. even soaked hay. there is not a slow feeder in existence she can eat or brake her teeth trying. i spent 2 years trying just that. she also dehydrates easily so the soaked pellets work well for her. my two other oldies are eating this since they are old and missing teeth.

hay cubes are 3x as expensive out here, few places carry them and they are filled with junk. we have tried them and it was not cost effective and did little favors for hour horses and take FOREVER to properly soak. pellets take 5 to 10 min. i mean i have been to boarding barns where they fed cow hay. feed quality is not a huge focus out here as 90% of people just feed alfalfa or pellets. my current barn does not offer or really encourage hay as its messy and hard to store. I KNOW they need to constantly chew but she makes that VERY difficult. I have looked into making her a slow feeder and the couple times i have tried she has destroyed them. unless its steel and concrete she will paw, kick or chew it to bits. and the last metal one lasted 3 months. she chewed on. grabbed and pulled and pushed it and busted half the welds and broke the wires untill it was a hazard. hay bags are dangerous because she has EATEN them. she ate and entire nylon hay bag and ingested it. i was finding it in her crap for a week. luckily it all passed with no issue (this was like 5 years ago). tried again and she ate a hole big enough for her head in 20 min and proceeded to nearly kill her self doing JUST that... there is 110 reason this horse is making me go gray. Now she has been on mush since end of 2014 and it was only the last couple years she has decided tails taist good... she ate rockets down to the nub and it was all scabbed and bloody. and she was eating the hair.

i can also put nottys tail up and have bail strings to swat flys. its just the base of her tail and mane that will need protected.

this is the food they are all on

Lakin Lite

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (Min) 11%
Crude Fat (Min) 2%
Crude Fiber (Max) 30%
Ash (Max) 12%
Calcium (Min) 0.7%
Calcium (Max) 1.7%
Phosphorus (Min) 0.18%
Phosphorus (Max) 0.5%
Copper (Min) 15 ppm
Selenium (Min) 0.2 ppm
Zinc (Min) 45 ppm
Vitamin A (Min) 300 IU/LB
Ingredients:
Alfalfa hay, bermuda hay, phosphoric acid (feed grade), zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, potassium iodide, vitamin E supplement, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, choline chloride, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, thiamin mononitrate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid and d-biotin.

you can see rockets tail growing in. this is 4 to 5 months of growth

the pic of odies tail on the grownd is before she ate it. then after, then recently. took a year for it to grow back out.
 

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OK, you said your horse is getting the vitamins and minerals she needs in the first post. What are you adding to this feed?

I plugged in the Lakin Lite to FeedXL (assuming you feed 20 lbs daily) and here is the graph I got:


If this is the only feed your horse is getting, she is probably just chewing voraciously because of all the deficiencies in this diet.
I'm guessing you probably put out a salt block so the sodium and chloride are probably not deficiencies. But there are many other critical things that don't have amounts included in the guaranteed analysis, so you have to assume their amounts are nominal. Such as Vitamin E, Lysine, the Selenium is low even if you're feeding 20 lbs a day, and Magnesium is not even on the ingredient list, even though it is vital for horses.

I'd say your horse needs some pretty serious supplements if this is all she eats. I'd assume a horse with low levels of E, Selenium and Magnesium would have some neuromuscular issues too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i believe alot of the deficiencies are in the hay itself. i dont know what feed to supplement her with. no one in this state knows what a ration balancer is. and my horses have been on this for the 10 or so years with little issue. i extremely limit her salt as she ate a 50 lb salt block in 2 weeks and she pees like a sive. i just add table salt to her feed.

"Highest Quality—and Nutritionally Complete
Using of the latest technology, Lakin Milling Company, in partnership with KER Equine Research Incorporated, formulated four scientifically balanced high quality horse feed products. KER research is developed by specialists who are internationally recognized for their knowledge and research in equine nutrition and exercise physiology. Lakin’s horse pellets are nutritionally complete – there is no need for costly supplements except for therapeutic reasons."
 

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I'm pretty sure both Tractor Supply and CAL Ranch stores in Arizona carry ration balancers. At least the ones where I live do.

I personally don't feed one, but my horse gets a really well rounded diet (in my opinion). So I'm not being judgemental, but just saying that "no one in Arizona knows what a ration balancer is," is just wrong. I think what you meant to say is "no one in Arizona bothers feeding a ration balancer." Sadly, I think this is true much of the time. Nobody I know personally worries about their horse's nutrition the way I do. And I am far from a sticker or expert on the subject.

But anyhow, I agree she is probably #1. hungry for roughage and #2. probably lacking some important nutrients. But we each got to do what we think is best.
 

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Lakin’s horse pellets are nutritionally complete – there is no need for costly supplements except for therapeutic reasons
So the feed company says, but yet it is missing many key components for horse health. I also put in the Lakin "Complete" diet and it had many deficiencies as well.

The horse was probably also eating so much salt trying to find a way to make up for the deficiencies. Vitamin and mineral deficiencies can give horses cravings that they try to fill with chewing and licking.

Since all you are feeding is a "supplemental" type feed but as the horse's complete diet, it would probably be better to feed a complete feed or else a really good quality grass pellet with a multivitamin supplement.

I see you have Triple Crown suppliers near Phoenix, a good feed would be Triple Crown Senior. When I put Triple Crown Senior into Feed XL, it shows all vitamins and minerals being met with 15 lbs a day. Ditto for Purina Senior...many of the Senior feeds really are complete feeds that you can feed exclusively to a horse that can't eat hay.

Something else I tried was putting in 10 lbs of Lakin Lite and 10 lbs of Triple Crown Senior, and that diet also met all of a horse's vitamin and mineral requirements. Possibly going with a diet of half Senior feed and half Lakin Lite might be cheaper than feeding just Senior feed.

Another diet I plugged in was just timothy grass hay pellets, and added 6 oz. of Trifecta Horse Guard multivitamin to it. That also covered all the necessary vitamins and minerals.
I'm sure there are other ways to meet your horse's nutritional needs as well, so if you'd like me to check out a certain feed or supplemented diet for you, let me know.
 

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My mare LOVES senior feed. She only gets about a pound a day as a treat, and to mix in her flax seeds and whatever else I'm feeding as a supplement at the time, but man, she thinks that's the biggest treat ever! I also make sure she gets a few carrots every day because they have something in them that horses don't get if they aren't on fresh grass........vitamin A, I think. That's one thing most horses in Arizona don't get, fresh grass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
im in the phoenix area and have asked feed stores (stock shop, pet club, pet food depot. C&H hay barn, Andersons ETC) if they carry a ration balancer. i normally get the blank stare and they say they have sweet feed, some sort of hot feed and senior. issue is senior in my area is like $27 a bag last i checked and it did not last long so i stopped feeding it since it was so ineffective. there was 0 difference in coat or weight on it. My arab always has the shiniest healthy coat even in winter along with dapples. so i never thought to hard on mineral issues. her hair and feet grow fast too. the lakin is supposed to balance out what the hay is missing. its supposed to be tested by Kentucky university and they tell them what to add. thats one of the reason i feed their pellets. Sacate pellets have corn in them and its flipping racehorse fuel (suger). last thing my 4 need. and G Farms... well lets say i have pulled enough things out of their stemmy hey to not want to feed their pellets.
what is the name of the ration Balancer at Tractor supply? i normally dont go there but the few times i have i did not see a ration balancer.
 
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