A mare is a mare - you love them or leave them.

You have fallen into the trap of impatience. You obviously have acquired a mare with spirit and one which knows right from wrong and what she wants out of life. She is not going to give in and she is going to make her presence felt.

Well it is up to you. You are going to have to be a little circumspect as to how you deal with her. You'll have to learn some understanding. You'll have to be firm but not intolerant.

Throw that whip away. Stop shouting and use your hands to soothe.

And stop moaning. She'll know she has you on the run. She hasn't yet decided if you are worthy of her. You'll know when she makes that decision.

Start again. Go buy her a box of horse treats and see if she likes juicy pears.
Be nice to her and whisper sweet nothings in her ear.

You've obviously not be married for long.

 

Sound advice. I don't actually have her anymore. She "was" a good horse, and I don't doubt that some additional time and patience would've benefited her. I must admit, i don't think she was the same misunderstood soul your guessing she was. Events had much to do with my schedule. I have been spending quite a bit of time going back to school for my animal science (equine science minor) degree. I have spent some thirty years off and on working with horses and I've always been the one to see the diamond waiting to shine. It is something I take pride in.

Contrary to how I must have portrayed myself, I am often complimented for my patience.

This mare would have been a great horse for someone. I suppose I was referring more to the deep connection that I have become accustomed to acquiring in past horses I've been exclusive to. It's true, had I had the time she actually needed, I may have harbored a much fonder recollection. Poor Katie just came along at an inopportune time. Like I Said, I expect I'll give it another shot after I graduate.

Thanks for the response and the advice. I'll definitely keep it in mind. I'm of the opinion that you never know everything about horses, and just when you get to thinkin' ya got it figured out, one will throw you a curve ball. A fella ought to try to take the good lessons from everyone he can, and shuck the bad after contemplation.

Have a great day.

 

I don't understand the prejudices about mares that some have. I've had so many and been around countless others. They ran together with geldings and other mares. They have been and are fine.

But, regardless of gender, if one doesn't like a horse I can understand not keeping it.

 

Her worst problem (and probably yours as well) is that she was 'Impressive' breeding.

I really do not want to open a big can of worms here, but I have to be honest with my opinion here.

Our experience and that of many other trainers is that they do not train and ride very well under saddle. They have been bred to be halter horses. Many have very straight hind legs set too far under them, have high hocks and have very long and very upright pasterns. These conformation characteristics along with an uncooperative mind make many of them very poor riding prospects.

A lot of 'Impressives' wake up in a new world every morning. Many simple things you thought you had ironed out just keep reappearing like it is a new task.

Those that do get along fairly well with early training will reach a certain point, usually where you start putting more pressure on them and asking for more, and they just come apart completely and you have to start over.

I know there are a few of them, usually quite a ways removed from Impressive himself, that have made pleasure and hunt seat horses, but they are few and far between. Stock Horse, Cowhorse, Cutting horse, etc trainers will not even take them.

Personally, I do not want one of them on the place.

On the other hand, I have no prejudices about mares, except for the very few that have actual physical problems. They will frequently give you a lot more 'try' than a gelding. The ones that act 'marish' are usually just bad mannered because someone has let them act that way. They can be taught good manners like any gelding. We pony off of them, haul them along-side geldings in a stock trailer use them for inexperienced riders on trail rides and find them very trainable IF they are bred to be trainable.

 

I have an Impressive bred horse and he is kind, steady and reliable. I had a mare for 18 years and she too was kind, steady and reliable, even after a bad beginning. It has more to do with how we treat our horses and not petting and soothing inappropriate behavior. Women are inclined to treat horses like a toddler and this is often why things don't work out.

 

Women are inclined to treat horses like a toddler and this is often why things don't work out.

Several words come to mind in response to this, but none are appropriate for this forum.

 

I hope not, Saddlebag. I wouldn't know what to do with a toddler. Probably treat it like a horse! "You can run around in circles until you quit whining."

 

The irony in this is I DO treat my students like horses xD

I work at a therapy barn, so the students mount from a ramp (even the able-bodied students). One of my students Insisted on stomping his feet up the ramp. I made him walk up and down that ramp about 14 times before he finally decided it was better to just walk up quietly (he knew what he needed to do, just being stubborn) :P

Later when I thought back on it I realized it's exactly what I do with horses who do the same sort of thing xD

 

I must be in the minority. I have/had four Impressive bred. Three intentional purchases and the rescue that I didn't see her papers until after we brought her home. One is double Impressive bred. All have made excellent trail horses, are quiet, easy going and great movers. Don't need any reminding either. One has been shown extensively and done really well in other disciplines both English and western. Two of the remaining three are hopefully going to have their horizons expanded soon. The third my brother has purchased for my niece and is going to be showing. I bought the horses based on their confirmation, overall attitude, personality and what their parents had accomplished not because they were Impressive. They just happened to be.

 

Rangeroam, your post could have been written about a human Katie. Keep looking & the right one will come along but often you will have to put up with a few nags until then.

 

Like Cherie my first thought was that her being a mare was not the problem.

I have also had/rode some Impressive horses. The first one I encountered I bought when I was just starting high school and wanted a barrel prospect. I bought him because he was extremely athletic and fast but being young didn't think about the brain attached.
He was very volatile. Pressure=explosion. Never made a barrel horse which I quickly gave up on. Had no cow. The only thing he was good at was good at was pounding rocks on a big circle and bucking.

The ones I rode for other people after that were close to the same.

I know some have had good luck with them. I talked to a gal a couple of weeks ago with a stud with those lines that is successful in heading, heeling and stock horse classes.

 

I had several mares in the past and have one now. I never had your problems, but I'm female so maybe I overlooked the moodiness!

 

I really dislike it when people come up with it is Impressive. First how fare back is he in the pedigree? If it is any further back then 2nd generation he plays little role in the horse. Also how/what is the cross. My stallion is Impressive tail line on a running horse cross. He is running cow top side and he is the most consitent steady eddy horse you will ever find even being a stallion. Anyone can ride him. His get are the same way. Most trained and shown by youth.

So while I agree that breeding plays a big role in what a horse is saying that is it Impressive with out looking at the rest of the pedigree or the horse and h ow it was raised is nothing but a bias with little to no bases.

 

Mare responses

Thanks everybody for the responses. I had visited this forum and been somewhat active a few years ago but this is the first time I've posted anything since I've returned. Thanks for making me feel welcome.

Well 'Saddlebag', I guess I saw 'thesilverspear's' response coming the moment I read your post. LOL. Fairly tame for what I was expecting you'd receive. I'll wait til I'm a bit more of a regular again before I go there. :wink:

The Impressive bloodline may have had something to do with it, but I'm not one to really blame my failure on the breeding solely. I had heard some of the things that Cherie mentioned about the new attitude each morning and the uncooperative mind when I still had Katie, (The Horse Version) so I would hate to think that I let those things influence my subconscious.

 

Absolutely. I would wager to guess that I just lost interest in her. Was just a thought. I don't subscribe to the "it was because of something in the bloodline, not the situation or my failure" school of thought.

Good talking folks. Gotta get to work.

 

I think blaming the mare's Impressive bloodlines is just as naive as blaming the mare for being a mare. My mare is Impressive bred and she is fantastic. She did not do well at halter, she loves to jump, when you get her back to lift and can push her forward she is a fabulous dressage mount, and I can have beginners and small children ride her. I love my mare and she is worth her weight in gold, but I highly doubt she is one of very very few Impressive-bred horses that are good for anything.

That said, my other little mare is much like the mare the OP is describing. She will never go too long without saying, "Hey, I think I'll be in charge today," and I have to put her back in her place. She's a great horse, you just have to be a little more on the assertive side. Some mares have very obvious cycles [just like women, for the record] and some have less so obvious cycles. If you don't mesh with one, that doesn't mean you won't mesh with any. If the bond isn't there, it isn't there. I've had great bonds with mares and geldings alike, and I've had not do great bonds with mares and geldings alike.
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I have had time to think.
Yes there is a slight difference in the way a mare responds as against a gelding.
A mare deals with her hormones in a different way from a gelding - who perhaps has had his own hormones taken away. So be it.

The horse which gave me the most grief when she was taken from me was a mare - yes, she was a difficult horse to 'manage'. I often blamed her hormones but in truth she was highly intelligent - not a trait supposedly to asssign to a horse. She was emotional and she was fun to be with. I was privileged to have known her. That is her and me in the avatar.

The horse which was the best riding horse in my life was a gelding named William.
He seemed to me to have few emotions - put simply he was a professional trail riding horse who took his rider out and brought them back home - usually safely.
Whenever I untacked him, he walked off back to his mates in the herd. He'd earned his keep for the day. He was always the same.

It would have been wrong to put the two horses side by side and treat them the same. The mare would have got jealous.
Perhaps that's the difference

In truth I miss them both - but for different reasons.

 

I have been exposed to the hundreds if not thousands of Impressive bred horses that have been dumped locally. I live in the factory. He stood for many years in Oklahoma just north of OKC. Conclusive (one of the meanest horses I have ever seen) and several other World Champion halter stallions was 2 miles down the road from me for many years. Jerry Wells was born here and lived here in Sulphur for much of his life. He either bred, raised, showed or brokered a huge percentage of World Champion halter horses for decades -- actually until he got cancer and moved to a small place in Wayne,OK. We knew him well. My husband helped him move equipment and sort through what he wanted to keep and wanted to leave (which he gave to us.)

Early on, many people bred their World Class performance mares to Impressive and his sons. Almost none of those foals came even close to being as good under saddle as their dams and many of them did not ride at all. We, personally, knew a bunch of them.

For 30 years, our local horse sale here in Sulphur has been the dumping ground for many of the Impressives that were not World Champion halter quality and would not ride -- at all. We watched as full trailer-loads were dumped out of stock trailers and sold without their papers. We've seen literally hundreds of weanlings and yearlings dumped that the breeders did not even register. Breeders have mostly given up on riding the ones that aren't halter quality.

I personally know several people that have had Impressives that did ride and they sold them without papers because they would bring more money than with them. When a good looking horse goes through the sale with a story about his cow-bred papers being lost, everyone around here knows exactly why his papers got 'lost'.

I've watched really good looking ones that were not top halter quality but could clean up at the State 4-H finals and the District show level and they were too difficult for a youth to even handle for halter and showmanship. I've had some of the 4-H kids I have helped that had to sell their Impressive bred horses because they were dangerous and going to hurt them. I quit taking any in to train about 30 years ago when I was still training for the public. The percentage of those that actually would ride decently was so small that I did not want to waste any more of my time trying to make 'chicken salad or of chicken s***'.

Are there good ones? You bet! But I can promise you one thing --- they did not get their riding ability and their trainability from their Impressive breeding.

 

Four Paint mares, 2 w/Impressive blood (mother and daughter). No problems here.
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It has nothing to do with mare or not, Impressive or not. You just didn't click with her and that's OKAY. It's an expensive sport to keep riding a horse you don't enjoy or like. But just tell the truth, you didn't like her. Not because she was a mare, not because she was Impressive bred, but because you didn't get along. That's fine

I have a mare who is a neurotic thing (the real NeuroticMare(tm)) she is not neurotic because of her being a girl, she is just that way because she is that way, always has been. Several years ago she got overly aggressive and energetic, that WAS from a overmature follicle "cyst" on an ovary that my vet treated and she went back to normal. That was a health thing, and sure it won't happen to a gelding, but mares don't get beans so there you have it.

My Impressive bred gelding is a superstar. He has one of the nicest dispositions I have ever met and he is very kind and consistent. I've heard that Impressive bred horses are one way or another, I'm sure it has some affect, but it's not the only thing that influences their personality. There are enough Impressive bred horses out there to have a generous pool of them, with some you like and some you don't. It's like saying "a TB with Native Dancer" or "a QH with Doc Bar" there are so so many out there.

Mare is definitely not a four letter word, I LOVE my mare dearly and always will. She is beautiful, feminine and sweet. She loves her other mare buddies and is steadfast loyal to a 26yo gelding at the barn who she is turned out with on occasion, she will walk slowly with him so he never feels left behind, and on some of the hotter days he had to stay in a stall adjoining her paddock with fans on him, and while she had acres of pasture she could go out in, she never stayed out of sight so that he got worked up. My gelding is sweet, but would probably kick him in the knee and run off, he's just like that

 

I absolutely adore my mare. 90% of the time I don't even have a clue she is in season (unless a cute new gelding comes around). She is just awesome, not mare-ish and an absolute blast to trail ride.

I have met a few mares that give mares a bad name, but I have met at least as many good ones than bad ones. I no longer have that extreme prejudice against mares that I once had. (And that came from owning a bad mare. But she was a bad horse period and I don't think being a mare had a lot to do with it).

I would buy another good mare in a heartbeat if she fit my trail riding needs.

 

Personally I love mares. To me, geldings are kind of bleah. They do their job and happily go back to the barn and eat. What else can a gelding do? A mare seems to have more. I'm not sure what it is. Maybe for some it is more bad, but for me it is more heart/soul/spirit. She is no robot horse to be pushed around, she needs finesse to bring out her best. When you develop a relationship with a mare, she seems to have a bond with you. Perhaps like the bond a mare and foal have that lasts all their lives. Mares remember their foals even after years of seperation.

The old saying goes something like: Ask a mare, tell a gelding, demand it with a stallion.

I don't know about Impressive bred horses but I can understand traits being in certain lines. With a lot of close breeding those traits can get intensified, good and bad.

 

In the Brecon Beacons of South Wales, Section C Welsh ponies are left out on the mountainsides to run free, to breed and to fatten up. Many, perhaps too many, are destined for the meat market in France, where humans eat horse meat. A few years ago a group of us were riding in file around the base of a hillside and suddenly into view came a small heard of wild ponies. Immediately we were seen, the stallion in the group - a little chap no more than 13 hands high hurried across towards us. His ears were down and for sure he meant business. In the meantime the dominant mare of the group hustled together the mares and foals of her ’family’ into order and she herded them along and around the hillside.
Meanwhile the little outnumbered stallion was not a force to be ignored. We riders mounted on our geldings had to instil courage into our group to stand, a couple were ready to runaway. My own steed, usually an unflappable gelding named William, for once showed signs of hesitancy but I persuaded him to ride over and face the stallion. Mind you I had to get my crop out, even if I did not have to use. It. Eventually, having aroused considerable angst in our group the stallion gave up and retreated. I think it was my shouting that did the trick. By then the little herd of ponies was out of sight around the corner of the hillside. This was Mother Nature at work. The dominant mare was undoubtedly the boss whereas the stallion was in reality only the muscles. If you like the bouncer on the entrance door.
My own mare - the one and only I have ever owned was like that. But she kept our little herd in order.

I have enjoyed access to ride regularly several mares in my time. Silver and Morwyn, both common cobs, come to mind who proved to be sure footed, no nonsense, trail riding horses. Yes the dominant mares call for a little understanding, especially during the Summer months but don’t we all at times? Despite what the books might say, one rule doesn’t fit all situations - especially when we are talking about mares.