Must have bits

6755 Views 72 Replies 28 Participants Last post by ClearDonkey, Mar 18, 2018

my2geldings

Discussion Starter · Dec 20, 2017

I love discussion that revolve around bits because there is so much to learn about them.

The discussion I want to get started, is what are bits that you keep in your "every day" tack locker that you find is great to keep on hand hen working with horses? And why is it that you've chosen to keep it in your daily/regular use bin? Maybe mention what discipline(s) you're into.

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phantomhorse13

· #21 · Dec 21, 2017

tinyliny said:
all snaffles are meant to have the gentlest and clearest communication when the position of the horse's head means that any pull on the bit makes the bit pull back agains the corners of the horse's mouth; his lips, before it makes a harsher contact with the bars or tongue.

Not sure how that changes anything when the snaffle in question has a bike chain mouthpiece or is a double twisted wire? Neither is gentle, be it applied to the lips or bars or tongue..

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BlindHorseEnthusiast4582

· #22 · Dec 21, 2017

phantomhorse13 said:
Not sure how that changes anything when the snaffle in question has a bike chain mouthpiece or is a double twisted wire? Neither is gentle, be it applied to the lips or bars or tongue..

I think even these have their place, as mentioned above, but I can see where you're coming from with your comment as well.

thecolorcoal

· #23 · Dec 21, 2017

@Kaifyre, that's a very good approach

my poor mare was ridden in a double twisted wire for a year and she still has scars to show for it ;_;

@tinyliny, i think phantomrose was trying to make a case for bitless, which is why they misquoted/didn't fully quote you... i agree that it's misguided information.

phantomrose, i'll try not to create a ruckus but you picked the worst of the worst bits to prove your "bitless" argument which is a straw man if i've ever seen one. if you want to promote bitless, this is not the way to go about it.

someone who wants to make the case for shanked bits over snaffles is something i'd love to hear. i'm a snaffle girl myself, although a pelham is my favorite shanked/leverage english bit.

I think what tiny meant to say is snaffles work on direct pressure, be it double twisted or bike chain, they are only as harsh as the hands using them. leverage bits amplify the pressure in the mouth. if you use the same pounds of pressure on a curb as you would a snaffle, the horse will feel it 2x as much.

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BlindHorseEnthusiast4582

· #24 · Dec 21, 2017

I don't think phantomhorse means any insult or was trying to misuse information at all, they made a good point. I think the objection was with the idea that ALL snaffles are gentler, not the comment as a whole. They said they still use a bit when needed for training, that its just their preference to go bitless. JMO

Personally, I would prefer to use no bit or a softer bit when possible, especially since I've seen Cherokee's owner abuse a curb and have seen what they can do, but in the right hands, any bit can be useful and cause no harm. It just comes down entirely to the skill level and personal preference of the horse and rider, in my opinion, unless they are limited by discipline, where those options are fewer.

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thecolorcoal

· #25 · Dec 21, 2017

I only like double jointed lozenge bits so I am with you, @BlindHorseEnthusiast4582. My horse was bit-abused, too, but specifically for my discipline we need very soft inviting bits. When I rode at very high level barns, double twisted wires, slow twists, waterfords, and other mouthpieces were super duper common, especially for "highly schooled horses."

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582

· #26 · Dec 21, 2017

thecolorcoal said:
I only like double jointed lozenge bits so I am with you, @BlindHorseEnthusiast4582. My horse was bit-abused, too, but specifically for my discipline we need very soft inviting bits. When I rode at very high level barns, double twisted wires, slow twists, waterfords, and other mouthpieces were super duper common, especially for "highly schooled horses."

I don't see myself ever personally having a need/want for those types. I wonder what uses they do have (what's a slow twist?) besides what Kai mentioned about getting the attention of a horse who has shut out its rider.

thecolorcoal

· #27 · Dec 21, 2017

2

^ slow twist.

They use these mouthpieces for strong horses that have holes in their training but are not worth correcting with traditional methods. They don't want to "kill the fire" in the horse so they resort to strong bits instead of training to get the same result.

I don't like DTW's, but I'm not anti-slow twist. i've used it on tyra a few times but not for anything I required contact for.

Tyra's favorite bit:

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boots

· #28 · Dec 21, 2017

I keep a loose ring snaffle, a pelham, and a medium port curb with loose shanks in the truck.

I really like the pelham if I don't know for sure how well the horse works in a bit. I can use either simply the snaffle action or the curb.

tinyliny

· #29 · Dec 21, 2017

I only meant that 'in theory' the snaffle is supposed to have it's first communication by pulling the lips back, and that only happens first when the horse has it's head positioned a certain way, (neither stargazing, nor curled under, but lined up with the rider's hands)
that was my only point.

yeah, a brutal mouthpiece makes any contact beyond a whisper on the lips likely to be painful.

I didn't get the impression that phantomhorse is arguing for bitless. only that her horses ride that way.
I ride mostly bitless these days, too.

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tinyliny

· #30 · Dec 21, 2017

thecolorcoal said:
@Kaifyre , that's a very good approach my poor mare was ridden in a double twisted wire for a year and she still has scars to show for it ;_;

@tinyliny , i think phantomrose was trying to make a case for bitless, which is why they misquoted/didn't fully quote you... i agree that it's misguided information.

phantomrose, i'll try not to create a ruckus but you picked the worst of the worst bits to prove your "bitless" argument which is a straw man if i've ever seen one. if you want to promote bitless, this is not the way to go about it.

someone who wants to make the case for shanked bits over snaffles is something i'd love to hear. i'm a snaffle girl myself, although a pelham is my favorite shanked/leverage english bit.

I think what tiny meant to say is snaffles work on direct pressure, be it double twisted or bike chain, they are only as harsh as the hands using them. leverage bits amplify the pressure in the mouth. if you use the same pounds of pressure on a curb as you would a snaffle, the horse will feel it 2x as much.

Let me clarify right now. . . . I did not make any remark whatsoever comparing snaffles to curb, or that they are only as harsh as the hands that wield them. ONLY that the snaffle can , in theory, have it's best/clearest communication when the horse's head is in a position such that the bit pulls straight back and lifts the corners of the lips, more than it puts hard pressure on the bars. That's one reason I hate to see people riding with their hands pulling downward to try to counteract a horse that is stargazing. this is NOT the right thing to do.

Also, ANY bit is only as harsh as the hands that hold it. curb or snaffle.
We all know that.

lastly, I really don't think Phantom was trying to make any sort of argument for bitless. I don't even know what you mean by 'strawman', but you will find a lot of riders here ride in curbs and have great results.

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COWCHICK77

· #31 · Dec 21, 2017

thecolorcoal said:
someone who wants to make the case for shanked bits over snaffles is something i'd love to hear. i'm a snaffle girl myself, although a pelham is my favorite shanked/leverage english bit.

I don't think one could make case for shanked bits over snaffles. They both have their own purposes and uses, doesn't necessarily make one or the other better in general. Saying a snaffles is better than a shanked bit or vice versa would be like saying riding English is better than riding western.
In my opinion, it would be dependent on the horse, rider and situation either bit is being used for.

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tinyliny

· #32 · Dec 21, 2017

So, the original post asked for each persons "toolbox' of bits. and plenty of folks will have a curb in there. I think I have a really nice one somewhere . . . it's hanging on a wall making itself pretty.

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Smilie

· #33 · Dec 21, 2017

Well, it is understood to me, JMO, when talking of snaffles, western, it is assumed a legal snaffle mouth piece , as used in any judged events, thus,even a twisted mouth piece is not legal,let alone some torture devise,.
I also don't consider bicycle chain mouth pieces, when talking of curbs, as used by some gymkhana people, where 'anything goes, far as bits

Smilie

· #34 · Dec 21, 2017

When speaking of curbs (any bit with shanks ), one also has to decide far as discipline, and how that bit is used.
Western, a curb is a bit a horse 'graduates to, once he can be ridden on a loose rein, one handed, for increased signal and finesse. So, if discussing any bit, leverage over non leverage, ridden with contact, or, on a loose rein, as ;signal bit, has to be part of the discussion.
For instance, put a Spade bit , in the mouth of an un educated hrose,not trained to the level to be ridden in a Spade, or in the hands of someone who has no business riding with a Spade bit, and that bit could be a torture.In the hands of a person qualified to ride with a Spade,and horse that has gone through the Vaquero training program, it becomes an ultimate tool for a light 'Bridle hrose'
Even so, according to Ed Corrnel, when a horse was first up in a SpADE,and ridden out to work some cattles, many old Vaqueros had a snaffle bridle tied on the back of their saddle, in case they had to take hold of that horse, working those cattle
Any tool used incorrectly, is not going to work as it is designed to

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Smilie

· #35 · Dec 21, 2017

oKay, if I was not showing, only could have one bit, it would be a single jointed snaffle, with sleeves, sweet iron, with copper inlay
If showing, a horse older then five, that horse would need to move on to a curb, thus number two bit would be a transition type of bit, that has just a little bit of curb action, and can still be direct reined if needed
Ie, single jointed mouth, loose jawed short shanks
.

Third would be a curb with a port. A basic one would have a wide port with lots of tongue relief and medium or low port, far as height

From there on in, there are many designs of curbs, that just give a little extra finesse, or certain events, so I buy quite a few, but could do without these 'extra curbs. I am kinda drawn to collecting bits, like some women collect shoes, even though they mainly wear just a few of those pairs of shoes!

I don't know how to upload pictures directly from a sale site, so will need to post links

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thecolorcoal

· #36 · Dec 21, 2017

But those are the examples people go to when arguing for bitless.

Mule bit or double jointed, a bit is sill only as strong as the rider behind it.

I've never been anti curb. But you can't compare curbs and snaffles. Curbs require a lot lighter contact and rein than a snaffle might.

I have a huge bit collection. I need to add some "tune up" bits to it, including a few twisted options. I personally love gags. They are super useful for jumping.

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Smilie

· #37 · Dec 21, 2017

Bit # 1. Something like this , only with copper inlay also

https://www.sstack.com/product/fes-sweet-iron-3--o-ring-snaffle/

Bit # 2, that I use when first moving up from a snaffle

https://reinsman.com/shop/bits-all/loose-jaw-colt-716-smooth-sweet-iron-snaffle/

Bit # 3
Something along this line

https://www.horsesaddleshop.com/toklat-myler-bit-89-11165.html

Now, if in the original question<i am allowed to have more then three bits, there would be at least one more bit between 2 and 3

Something like this

https://www.sstack.com/western_bitscurbs_shank-snaffles/dutton-swept-back-shank-snaffle-bit/

I would probably also throw in a curb with a roller, or a cricket for horses that like them, esp in events where they get some nervous energy

https://marystack.com/weaver-antique-engraved-s-shank-cricket-bit/

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Phantomrose

· #38 · Dec 21, 2017

So far, the only bit I have is a french link loose ring snaffle for Jet. He seems to go pretty well in it, and noticed that he does like to play with it in his mouth a bit. It was actually quite challenging for me to find a double jointed bit that was 4" long in the mouth piece. I am using a loose ring on him because he tends to lean on the bit, and I've read that loose rings are good for horses that tend to lean. I've noticed when riding him in it, he tends to lean on the bit less. I might try other bits on him as well, but this one seems to work for me and Jet for now.

thecolorcoal

· #39 · Dec 21, 2017

I would loooooove to be able to use single joints with my mare. There seems to be so much more variety.

tinyliny

· #40 · Dec 21, 2017

2

I used to just love the elusive search for the 'just right' bit. I bought several really cool ones, that I NEVER used. such as this one:

it's a Pee Wee bit.

I almost bought this one:

the Rocking S bit, which is promoted by Mark Rashid. Didin't buy it, tho.

But, it was fun shopping and imagining how wonderful things would be, how perfect, with that new bit.

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