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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
If your horses are starving or are overweight and you do nothing about it it's animal cruelty. If you are too lazy to trim your horses at LEAST once every 3 months and the lack of trimming has led to overgrown hooves or founder it is animal neglect. If you cannot afford to feed or trim your horse, sell them. They don't need to suffer for your lack of care.

These hooves belong to a sweet pony who arrived at my boarding facility 2 months ago. I have not seen the owner come out once ither than to pay board. Both me and the boarding manager are very aware of just how bad his hooves are. He has really bad retained sole, about half an inch thick. I don't know what else to say because of how bad they look. He doesn't appear tender, but if his owner ever decides to trim him i won't be surprised if he limps on all fours. I texted and offered my trimming services to her, even for half off just because i didn't want to tiss her off for saying her horse has bad feet. She said "No I just had them trimmed professionally on April 28th. He did have rotation he will be trimmed next week as scheduled. You are not expirenced enough to trim my horses feet. Thank you."
Take a look at his fronts..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I guess I'm more defensive over neglected animals because of how much animal cops Houston i watched as a kid rather than cartoons. At least he is getting trimmed, at least they say he is. Ok but april 28th? For being "professionally trimmed" almost a month and a half ago that's almost an inch of excess hoof wall. I know we can't force people to trim their horses but that doesn't mean i can't bite my tongue and nice and calmly offer help. Sigh... Some people shouldn't own animals. He should've been trimmed when he first arrived...
 

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My question to you is where do you as owner of the facility draw the line on care and neglect?


You as owner of the facility are ultimately responsible for the care of the animals on your property, owned by others or not.
I know where property owners ended up in front of a judge when they had not stepped in to correct a neglect/abusive.cruelty situation that was taking place on their land...
If the animals were starving local officials would be banging on your door...
So can neglectful care have authorities looking right at you... :|
:runninghorse2:...
 

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I don't think two months is nowhere near being a long time not being trimmed, but only if the hooves have been trimmed correctly before. His most certainly hasn't been. I like keeping them very short and round as well.

You were very kind to offer, but I'm afraid there is nothing much you can do, if somebody does come to trim them.
 

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Wait the week and see what sort of job the trimmer does. The fact that she paid the trimmer makes them a 'professional' just as you are if you charge for a trim.

I have many times cut my father's hair (he didn't have a lot) does that make me a barber or a hairdresser? Think not.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited by Moderator)
@horselovinguy I'm not the owner of this horse or of the property. The property owner/board manager has been asking the pony's owner to get him ttimmed and he even suggested me do the trimming. It is a wait and see game, but i agree the hooves don't look like they were trimmed properly given how much there is to trim. If they don't get trimmed in the week I'll discuss it with the board manager
 

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Kind of looks like founder? @loosie

My thoughts are two-fold. One is regarding your business in this. Do you work for the barn or board your horse there? You call it "My boarding facility" which sounds like you are the owner.

The thing is, if a horse is on a persons property and is neglected on that property, and there is someone on that property caring for that horse, then I believe the person is liable because they know the abuse is happening.

I have a simple-minded neighbor. (He is in his early 70's and has been tested at the 12 year old level and has a guardian that lives across the street). Anyhow, he has a relative that put a kennel up in his backyard. The relatives often take advantage of him. These dogs will go days, even weeks without food or water. I think there was a dead one in the kennel once. The guy that put them there thinks they hunt better hungry. ANYHOW - the animal control has been called several times. The simple-minded property owner is the one who has gotten in trouble over it. Becuase they are on his land and he knows the condition they are in.

The barn manager should probably get the feet taken care of and add it to the monthly board. I know many places that tell owners, you have to have the horse shod or feet done or de-wormer and if you don't do it on this schedule, then we will do it for you and charge you. Obviously they should check the legalities on it but posting pictures on a forum and moaning about it isn't taking action.
 
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The barn manager should probably get the feet taken care of and add it to the monthly board. I know many places that tell owners, you have to have the horse shod or feet done or de-wormer and if you don't do it on this schedule, then we will do it for you and charge you. Obviously they should check the legalities on it but posting pictures on a forum and moaning about it isn't taking action.
Honestly, I'd agree with this. The place I'm at now told me this when I came and, as it was the first real full care barn I'd been at I was like "ok sure, makes sense... but I'm neurotic about doing stuff on time coming from partial care or self care barns." I've kept up to date on everything and she's never needed to step in and have someone take care of something I should have done. Now, personally, if you cant take care of your horse you shouldn't have it. Just IMO...

But the horse needs its feet done, regardless, as soon as possible. Someone needs to take care of it, the horse cant just ring the farrier itself. I'd say if the owners farrier comes and does a trash job (or doesn't show up at all), the BO/BM should mention to the owner that if the horses feet don't start looking better they will be calling someone to help the horses hooves and it will be charged to the owner with their board.
 

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I don't think saying something about the pony's feet is "pushing your opinions" on someone. This can hurt him, this is basic care neglect, not an opinion. If it doesn't get better than that I would do more, I'd push it further until his feet are taken care of. At the very least, I'd think the people who own this property/the barn owner wouldn't want potential borders to see this kind of care and think it's tolerated, I'd think they'd want to the see the horses in good shape for it's own sake, if not to keep from turning people away.
 

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This does look like a founder has taken place at some time, but as a ranch manager overseeing almost 70 horses your manager can force the issue. I have always advocated for the horses on my ranch. Simply you let your boarder know if they don't take of it you will or they can remove their horse off the premises...
 

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At my place they have a three strike rule as explained to me. The owner will get called in three times and if the issues are not resolved you and your horse will be evicted. That's actually how they got on of their horses, the original owner signed them over.

I bet the owner doesn't properly look at the feet. Out of sight and out of mind yo? You should show her these pictures as she might be short sighted AND show your own horse's hooves. Ask her which ones look healthier, the ones done by you or by the farrier, after the appointment of course. You can gently remind her that you are in it for the horse's welfare and NOT just the paycheck plus.. you board there. Why on earth would you wanna risk your reputation for a few pennies hm? If anything you have more motivation to do a proper job. Part of it also might be that she's trying to avoid the VERY LIKELY vet bills heading her way if she followed proper healthcare precautions and treatment so she doesn't want YOU near them either.

And if none of the above work absolutely push it with the manager. He doesn't want a reputation advocating horse neglect, surely?


And PS: I really dislike people telling me its none of my business. A dependant is a dependant. If I think a child or vulnerable person is being abused I WILL report it... even if the family or caregiver tell me its none of business. If an animal is neglected same thing. We must challenge ourselves to challenge others on behalf of those that cannot defend themselves. It's easy to look away but not so easy to live with it.
 

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And PS: I really dislike people telling me its none of my business. A dependant is a dependant. If I think a child or vulnerable person is being abused I WILL report it... even if the family or caregiver tell me its none of business. If an animal is neglected same thing. We must challenge ourselves to challenge others on behalf of those that cannot defend themselves. It's easy to look away but not so easy to live with it.
I so agree with you over this, everyone should take notice and do what is right not just turn a blind eye.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
@Kalraii i completely agree. The board manager has been asking Frosty's owner nicely but the BM said he doesn't want to make the owner angry
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Frosty has been trimmed. Was unable to take pictures because my phone was dead but i will tomorrow. They look great from the outside but it looks like the farrier "dubbed"? The hoofwall to make the whole hoof look correct from the outside. But when i pick up a hoof looking directly down i see nothing but sole. I get rolling away a stetched toe to take the leverage away but it has been done all the way around. The sole asks has no or hardly any concavity so frosty is walking on most of his sole. He doesn't look tender but it doesn't look right. The point of the frog is at the very edge of the hoof
 

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The point of the frog is at the very edge of the hoof
Very interested to see pics then. The above makes me think the horse is seriously, very chronically foundered and the frog has 'stretched' forward greatly too, known as a 'founder strap. I have cut seriously foundered feet back to *past* the point of the frog at times, knowing full well I'm still nowhere near live tissue.

In fact I just received xrays from a vet this morn on a foundered pony I'm dealing with, and he has marked/measured the frog apex at 9mm IN FRONT of (worn & ski tipped) P3. That's not anywhere near as bad as some, but shows that the correct length of toe/breakover should be brought back close to the current tip of the frog. Looking forward to making a real difference for him next trim!

Which is kinda first trim... last visit he was acutely laminitic as well and couldn't stand for his feet to be picked up long at all, so I only did a VERY light nipping to get heels down a bit & relieve toe walls. Extremely frustrating as I'd been working on this pony a year ago, got him comfortable & hooves looking almost normal... then she 'forgot' to get him trimmed for over 6 months & think she only 'remembered' because he was in such great pain. She was shocked that I couldn't trim him properly then & told her she needed to get a vet urgently... Now we're back close to the state I found him in!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Frosty is very sore. I came out to keep an eye on him, the board manager i believe is currently on the phone with the owner. Here are pictures of his hooves. I didn't clean them out because i didn't want the owner to freak out about me touching her horse. The tip of the frog has worn away a little but there's very little hoof wall Frosty can walk on. He's daintily walking around with his head low. Poor guy. I'm sitting on a bench keeping an eye on him until his owner arrives. @loosie here you go
 

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