Natural Horsemanship??

6419 Views 60 Replies 24 Participants Last post by Beling, Mar 18, 2010

jumper25

Discussion Starter · Dec 24, 2009

I don't really know very much about natural horsemanship other that it's riding without tack.... correct? But I do think it looks amazing when you see a horse and rider so in touch so I was wondering if someone could tell me more about natural horsemanship and what it's all about.

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thesilverspear

· #21 · Jan 16, 2010

I hate the term "natural horsemanship" for the above reasons but until people come up with a better one to describe this particular ethos of training, I feel we are stuck with it. When I have to define it, I say that it is a system of training a horse which takes into account horse psychology and body language, attempts to emulate how they communicate with each other, and offers alternative methods to the "traditional" ones for forming a relationship with the horse.

I have seen horse "free-lunge" each other. If you turn a new horse into a field, or put a couple horses together who don't know each other, the alpha horse will drive the beta horse away until the beta horse submits. Also, in the situation where you introduce a new horse to a herd, frequently the alpha horse will keep the new fella away for a few days, or even weeks.

kiwigirl

· #22 · Jan 16, 2010

Hey Silverspear, I have seen the "free lunge" thing done as well. Though they don't actually use their tails as carrot sticks, you may not believe this but I made that bit up.LOL

I think that on some levels the term natural horsemanship can be dangerous. This is just my opinion OK. It seems though that packaged natural horsemanship attracts beginners and unconfident, inexperienced horse people. For all the right reasons. People want to be better with their horses and gain more knowledge in a way that is kind to their horses and I applaud that. But it is easy to be lead down the path of horse righteousness, "I do "natural horsemanship" everything I do TO my horse is right and good." WRONG! NOTHING we do with horses is natural.

I think that sometimes the way natural horsemanship is practiced is just as brutal and unyeilding as the old cowboy way of rope'em and ride'em. Horses made to dance around and around endlessly, back and forth so on and so on by people who don't understand what they are trying to achieve. I don't really approve of the term 'natural horsemanship', there are many types of horsemen, good, bad and inexperienced and not one thing that any of us do with/to our horses is natural. I would love to see the end of the term "natural horsemanship" because it can be a mask for some very unnatural behaviour.

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Snowkicker

· #23 · Jan 16, 2010

I think that on some levels the term natural horsemanship can be dangerous. This is just my opinion OK. It seems though that packaged natural horsemanship attracts beginners and unconfident, inexperienced horse people. For all the right reasons. People want to be better with their horses and gain more knowledge in a way that is kind to their horses and I applaud that. But it is easy to be lead down the path of horse righteousness, "I do "natural horsemanship" everything I do TO my horse is right and good." WRONG! NOTHING we do with horses is natural.

I have encountered this as well. It is awful to watch. You suggest a more direct and simple way, and they tell you they only do it the Parelli way. You wonder if they ever really plan on riding that once broke horse, or if they just want to play games with out actually learning the basics of being able to read basic equine body language. The person I am referring to is not on this forum. I am desperately trying to help her as she now owns 18 horses. Many of them babies she is too scared to get in a pen with. The heavier she gets into Parelli the more scared she is to do anything with her horses. I gave her DVD's for other trainers that take a more no nonsense approach and she refused to watch them. She is shocked when I walk into the paddock and put halters on the babies. She swears every horse I help her with is freaking out and needs time to calm down. She doesn't realize It is her that needs to calm down, get off the couch, burn her parelli DVDs and actually spend the money to take lessons with a professional that will deal with her fear issues.

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kingmustang

· #24 · Jan 30, 2010

Spirithorse said:
NH is working with the horse's nature, not against it, understanding how he thinks and what makes them tick, and never ever blaming them. NH is less something you do and more something you are. Are we willing to forget all these rules and limitations the horse world has and get back to our senses and just feel and listen. NH is a lifestyle, as it goes beyond your horsemanship. NH is a lot of things

This is definitely the best way of explaining it. NA gos so far beyond what can be explained it needs to bee witnessed and even then I think some people are not observant enough nor well enough in tune with horses to do NH. I know some people that do not think that horses think or plot, they think every thing that a horse dos is instinct not brains, someone like that would never be able to do NA properly. If you want more info on NA go to this site, this guy is a very good trainer. Steve Rother - Horse Teacher

PaytonSidesHorsemanship

· #25 · Feb 1, 2010

I don't disagree that the term "natural" can be misleading. I use the term "horse psycology" a lot because I believe thats what the natural is meant to stand for, it's just that that two words don't mean anywhere near the same thing.

kiwigirl said:
Hey Silverspear, I have seen the "free lunge" thing done as well. Though they don't actually use their tails as carrot sticks, you may not believe this but I made that bit up.LOL

I think that on some levels the term natural horsemanship can be dangerous. This is just my opinion OK. It seems though that packaged natural horsemanship attracts beginners and unconfident, inexperienced horse people. For all the right reasons. People want to be better with their horses and gain more knowledge in a way that is kind to their horses and I applaud that. But it is easy to be lead down the path of horse righteousness, "I do "natural horsemanship" everything I do TO my horse is right and good." WRONG! NOTHING we do with horses is natural.

I think that sometimes the way natural horsemanship is practiced is just as brutal and unyeilding as the old cowboy way of rope'em and ride'em. Horses made to dance around and around endlessly, back and forth so on and so on by people who don't understand what they are trying to achieve. I don't really approve of the term 'natural horsemanship', there are many types of horsemen, good, bad and inexperienced and not one thing that any of us do with/to our horses is natural. I would love to see the end of the term "natural horsemanship" because it can be a mask for some very unnatural behaviour.

Anon A Moss

· #26 · Feb 12, 2010

I myself have always fancied the term 'pressure & release training,' because at the most basic level, thats what all the NH people have in common.

kiwigirl

· #27 · Feb 13, 2010

"Pressure and Release" training.... yeah, I could be down with that term.

Lottie95

· #28 · Feb 14, 2010

I found this on another persons thread, I think it will explain NH very well for you. Hope it helps

nrhareiner

· #29 · Feb 14, 2010

The thing is that NH is not a "SECRET" Especially not a Parrelli secret. THIS is the problem I have with Parrelli and most other NH type trainers. Good horsemanship is NOT a secret. It is just that good horsemanship and you do not need to by Parrellis DVDs or all this high prices toys.

Solon

· #30 · Feb 14, 2010

Amen! My grandpa and his grandpa were doing all that way before Parelli and those others came up with it.

And for people to think they cannot move ahead with their horse because they haven't gotten through the third game or they are waiting for enough money to buy the next DVD in the set is a complete joke. I look at some of these people in our arena with their $50 carrot sticks and it just makes me laugh.

Spirithorse

· #31 · Feb 14, 2010

Well isn't that just nice, positive energy to be around...

justsambam08

· #32 · Feb 16, 2010

Spirithorse said:
Well isn't that just nice, positive energy to be around...

I think we should be allowed to all have our own opinions. I find that the most level headed people in the NH world are the ones who realize that not every horse and not every person is right for the Parelli way, or the Clinton Anderson way, or whatever other ways there are. I think the ones who give everyone else a bad name are similar to the members of PETA....they go around protesting "animal abuse", which could be anything from giving dogs routine vaccinations to keeping them indoors, and tend to not pay attention to the bigger issues, like the millions of dogs running around on the streets. I think that sometimes you Spirithorse can become a little preachy and sound like a kool aid drinker when people don't agree with your methods. I do however find your knowledge valuable, but not very applicable to my situation--for Ice's whole life, he's been around people who let him run the show. He can't be approached in a "we're partners" mindset, or he'll take complete advantage of you. Just like on the track, if you're not the winner you're the loser and that's what you have to keep in mind around him.

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Solon

· #33 · Feb 16, 2010

Preachy is right, much like the people I have dealt with in the NH crowds. I think it's so funny because it's a joke that a person thinks they cannot move ahead with their horse unless they have a specific DVD/book or expensive piece of equipment. To me, that's not what horsemanship is about.

Spirithorse

· #34 · Feb 16, 2010

See, all the things that you don't "like" about Parelli people (they don't advance, they don't ride, they seem all love and no leadership, etc) IS NOT right....it certainly doesn't apply to me, and I'm a dedicated student to the program. THAT'S what I "preach," or more accurately stick up for, because all these assumptions are not accurate. I'm willing to be assertive with a horse if it's needed, it's second nature to me, and I always go back to neutral after I deliver the consequence. Sure some people put their own twist on things that shouldn't be twisted, but you get that EVERYWHERE, not just in Parelli or any other NH group. If the student commits WHOLEHEARTEDLY that is where you see pure Parelli...what it's really about. Carol Coppinger is a 5 star Premier Instructor and she is phenominal, I have personally taken a couple clinics with her and she is pure, 110% Parelli.....I'd YouTube her if you have the desire and watch her in action. THAT'S what I aim to be, I don't like the idea of being a mediocre horse person.

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nrhareiner

· #35 · Feb 16, 2010

Spirithorse said:
See, all the things that you don't "like" about Parelli people (they don't advance, they don't ride, they seem all love and no leadership, etc) IS NOT right....it certainly doesn't apply to me, and I'm a dedicated student to the program.

Thing is that for every one person like you there are 10 that are not that are what people are describing. I have dealt with so many of them and even worse their horses. To the point I will not even look at a horse for sale the second Parelli is mentioned and I will not let a horse trained that way on my property. They can call the vet to AI their horse. B/C I will not be doing the work

kiwigirl

· #36 · Feb 16, 2010

I wonder why so many people out there get the whole Parelli/NH ideas so wrong? Nrhareiner you have obviously come across some stinker NH horse handlers, what is the most prevalent problem that you have encountered? What would you consider to be the underlying foundation problems?

I also have a genuine question for Spirithorse, this is not intended to be antogonistic in any way. I admire your loyalty and dedication to the Parelli system you are obviously a person who can get a lot out of it. You made the statement about not wanting to be a mediocre horse person, I totally get that attitude. I want to know if you think that NOT using Parelli makes someone mediocre? Do you think that other people can (and do) achieve great levels of horsemanship using other avenues? Also do you think that as there seem to be some Truly mediocre Parelli trained horse people out there that it has more to do with the individual rather than the program chosen?

Solon

· #37 · Feb 16, 2010

nrhareiner said:
Thing is that for every one person like you there are 10 that are not that are what people are describing. I have dealt with so many of them and even worse their horses. To the point I will not even look at a horse for sale the second Parelli is mentioned and I will not let a horse trained that way on my property. They can call the vet to AI their horse. B/C I will not be doing the work

Exactly this.

Personally, I have yet to meet a Parelli follower that isn't what I have described. He's a master mind at marketing. I'll give him that, but that's it.

roro

· #38 · Feb 16, 2010 (Edited)

I've never really gotten what NH is. Many followers of it have lectured me on what it means, but it still doesn't make sense to me. They usually bring up the following points:
-we ride with minimal tack. I ride my horse with a bareback pad when I'm in the mood and everything I use is minimal. My bit is mild and I rarely use a dressage whip even though I have it in my hand for most of my rides. I wouldn't be using a piece of tack if it didn't have a purpose.

-we take horse psychology into our horsemanship. So do I. I have learned and experienced horse psychology and know their body language. I am quite able to understand them and ask them to do things 'in their own language'.

-we use groundwork before we step in the saddle. I use groundwork quite often and find it to be a nice tool. There are few things that I can do in the saddle that I can't do on a lunge line or in hand.

-we are nice to our horses and they obey us willingly. I never force my horse to do anything that would cause him pain, he obeys me willingly because I am the leader. Ultimately, I make decisions that will make both of us happy-ie he gives at the poll and I become a better rider while he is able to travel in a more relaxed manner.

So, what is it? Is the only difference the fact that I have not bought NH products such as books, DVDs, and hot pink rope halters?

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nrhareiner

· #39 · Feb 16, 2010

Do not confuse NH with Parrelli. They are 2 different things in many ways. The people who seem to be PP hard core followers seem to have this mind set that everything you do is passive and you should never force a horse to do anything. INCLUDE MIND. If they are willing they will do what you ask. If you are nice they will do what you ask. If you talk to them in their language they will do as you ask. Bits spurs saddles are all evil. Shoes on horses are evil. If it is not natural it is evil. If you play all the games your horse will be perfect. You will have this magical black stallion moment and you and your horse will love happily every after. Now yet I am going a bit over board however this is the mind set of so many PP followers.

When in reality their horses are pushy and dangerous. They buck their riders off and run off. As the riders are riding bareback when they can barely ride. I see is so many times. Especially when I ride in the state park here locally. I have chased down many horses who have no tack b/c their riders/owners are PP cool aid drinkers and now the human is walking and their horse is loose.

I have had mares here for breeding who where uncontrollable b/c their owners seem to think punishment is bad. I just stopped taking then in. Not worth it and I do not need the work.

Where NH is just working with the horse on his level. Which means you are the heard leader and if that means kicking the horse in the gonads so be it. It only takes once if you do it right.

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Solon

· #40 · Feb 16, 2010

One of the trainers I know says that worst horse to deal with and re-train is a Parrelli horse.

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