The Horse Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So the filly I picked up hasn't been handled very much. I can catch her up with a few minutes but she doesn't walk over or anything. The thing is the breeder likes to teach her foals to offer their butts first so thats what she does.....I have never heard of this before. Anyone else heard of this before? In 20 odd years it's totally new to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,220 Posts
So she turns her butt to you? Never heard of that, I wonder why her breeders prefer that?

I wouldn't permit it, if my horse swung his butt to me, that is saying "F You" and if he did that, I'd wave my arms/hands and hiss at him.

I have had babies in my past, and I've worked with and trained OTTB's - they've tried it, but I would nip that in the butt *no pun intended* right away.

I would find out their reasoning behind this theory
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
392 Posts
No im prety sure horses are not supposed to do that, there needs to be some way for her to train her to not do that because that just makes it easier for her to kick you or run you into a wall. ex.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
So she turns her butt to you? Never heard of that, I wonder why her breeders prefer that?

I wouldn't permit it, if my horse swung his butt to me, that is saying "F You" and if he did that, I'd wave my arms/hands and hiss at him.

I have had babies in my past, and I've worked with and trained OTTB's - they've tried it, but I would nip that in the butt *no pun intended* right away.

I would find out their reasoning behind this theory
I take it as an insult to....horses don't turn their butts to each other when they introduce themselves...not unless they don't like each other.

Yes, she will walk over then sidle up side ways and shove her butt at me to be scratched. I spoke with the breeders daughter not the lady directly (I guess she's very ill which is why they are selling all their horses). She said this is just how her mother does it with all the babies. She was right to cuz when I walked out into the pasture all the babies turned their butts to me to be scratched. It sounds totally bazar and dangerous.

You can tell she's never had anything done with her head cuz when I was first trying to touch her face she would just turn around again or run off. I had a good 5 minutes of just loving on her face, ears and neck before I left the barn tonight so hopefully she will realize the attention is given to the front and not back end ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
I have actually just recently heard of this and personally wouldn't train a horse this way. Some mini breeders that I know (not the most reliable horse sources by any means) train their minis to do this. Something about getting them used to things approaching from behind them, shadows over top of them, etc. I remember something about a giant bird being in the explanation, but I'm pretty sure I was zoning out by then, may have even been day dreaming.

I have a mini, he walks straight up, puts his head in the halter, and to my knowlege has no fear of anything swooping in from behind. If anyone else has any reasons for the "butt" method, I would love to hear them. If it were me I think I would change that habit asap. I personally like my horses to be able to look at me and walk up to me without swinging butts into me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
That seems insane. I'd love to hear any other rationale for this. I would take it as an insult or even a threat from a horse. It seems like it would make them head shy (like yours seems to be thus far).

Yeah, I don't want them freaking out if something comes up behind them, but there are other ways to accomplish that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
this doesn't make any sense to me, maybe a small amount of sense with the mini's but really when is a ridiculously huge bird going to swoop out of the sky right above your horse? lol why would you want to do it though? it's not a submissive behavior, at least i'm almost positive. when does she turn her butt to you? when you're catching her or something?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,016 Posts
I've known a couple of adult horses to do that- because they loved getting their butts scratched! I don't mind the "insult" in the two cases I have known, because I know the horses intentions are just to get a good scratch, but it would be a rather alarming trait if I didn't know the horses ahead of time.

Personally, when I want to get lovey-dovey with my horses, I scratch around their withers, chests and necks. They seem to like it there and you don't have a horse turning butt-first towards you. Maybe that is something to try with your filly, ignore the butt and start scratching her in the wither/neck area. They maybe you will get a front-first presentation. :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,510 Posts
Aaaahhhhhh. I was a little confused at first, but when you explained a little more, I can tell you almost exactly why she does this.

It's not a "training method" per say. All horses like their butts scratched, and foals even more then most. I swear you can scratch a baby's butt for thirteen hours and not have them get bored. So if "proper" training isn't able to be done, by always scratching their butts, she's made them "half-assed" catchable. It's not that she's necessarily been purposely trained to turn her butt to you, but with lack of handling, she's learned that's about the only thing you're good for and the only reason why you're there, so her owner has encouraged this behaviour in her foals to prevent them from becoming scared of humans.

Either way, I would never encourage it. I don't mind it in adult horses, Eve does it all the time, it's hilarious - if you're standing the pasture, she'll zero in on you and then as precisely as backing up a Mac truck into a stable, she backs her butt into you. She'll stop about two inches away, glance back, and if you haven't commenced scratching, she'll carefully back up so her tail brushes you as reminder. In a horse like Eve, I do not mind this - she has already been taught that kicking isn't acceptable, and she ONLY does it if we're standing around scratching other horses. She has learned it's ok to do if we're standing around solely for the purpose of scratching bums.

In an unhandled youngster who's never learned kicking isn't acceptable, it's definately something I would work to correct. This will be much easier once you have her on your own property and can work on getting her handled more and teach her that facing you for treats is more fun then having a bum scratched. As soon as she learns that grain is yummy, I can pretty much guarantee that by standing behind her and shaking a bucket and refusing to scratch her, she'll start turning around on her own. Reward her properly for this action. I would not resort to any scare tactics because she's not doing it aggressively, she just thinks that's how it's done. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,493 Posts
With babies(or at least with two of my foals this year) the quickest way to a little baby's affections is through butt scratches(if you can't get to the withers yet)... Their little necks just aren't long enough, and for a little horse those itchy spots are a big deal. Who doesn't like to dwell on the itchy spots of a young foal? It is so cute to see their expressions. You soon become that wonderful butt/tail scratcher when you go out to them. Just as when you start graining him, you become the all powerful grain dispenser. They are very selfish creatures. They'll like you so long as you have a known use to them. Oh how their worlds change when they get old enough to return the favors. You think you have accomplished a great breakthrough with your baby because he'll come right up to you and let you handle him, even though that means he'll come up and put his butt on you for more glorious attention. You can start with the butt and move up from there, to a preferable spot, like the withers and neck. If you just dwell on the rear and don't really progress the handling from there, then you have done the baby a disservice. Itchy spots are just a key to unlocking many things with a little baby.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Hmm interesting but still not a behavior I want from my horses.

I agree with another poster. I wont use scare tactics but if she presents her butt I am just gonna ignore it and wait till she turns to look at me. I am perfectly happy to scratch her but (my gelding always has that itchy spot by his tail I take care of ;) )but I want her head first. She REALLY likes her chest and withers scratched so I am going to aim for those spots first and will work up the neck.

Thank you for all the wonderful input!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Either way, I would never encourage it. I don't mind it in adult horses, Eve does it all the time, it's hilarious - if you're standing the pasture, she'll zero in on you and then as precisely as backing up a Mac truck into a stable, she backs her butt into you. She'll stop about two inches away, glance back, and if you haven't commenced scratching, she'll carefully back up so her tail brushes you as reminder. In a horse like Eve, I do not mind this - she has already been taught that kicking isn't acceptable, and she ONLY does it if we're standing around scratching other horses. She has learned it's ok to do if we're standing around solely for the purpose of scratching bums.
Too true...none of our other mares do this but when Eve does it, it's a good laugh. She'll actually FOLLOW you backwards to maintain her position to be easily scratched. Like Moki said, she'll ever so carefully back herself in tiny steps until she's an inch from you and if you ignore it, she'll lean back and touch you with her tail as if to "clear her throat" to make sure you know she's there! If you walk around the other side of whatever horse you were paying attention to, she'll casually walk around, reline it up, and proceed to get into position...such a ham!

I'd try getting her curious before shaking grain though...if that doesn't work, then try with goodies. I mean, when she turns her butt, walk a couple steps away and see what she does. If she walks off, follow and try again. Obviously don't do this for hours if it's not getting you anywhere, but if this is something that your foal's been "taught", then it's understanding that it's doing the right thing. I agree with not using scare tactics, you're likely to get booted. I think all you need to correct this is time, effort, patience, and LOTS of rewarding once the foal does turn to face you. Good luck and keep us posted! Can't wait to see pics! :D I'm a sucker for foal pics...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,635 Posts
I can't imagine letting a horse turn their butt to me. I have a 17 month old, I have had her since she was 7 months, and she has never tried to "offer" her butt. My horses actually know that they are not allowed, ever, under any circumstance, to show my their butts. I'd follow Macabre's advice on getting her to face you without scaring her. You may also work on getting her to move off a pressure cue, teach her to side step or move her hindquarters away from you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
SO I think we made a little progress today. I went in with her again and she came over and turned her butt waiting to be scratched. I ignored her and stepped away, she turned her head and looked at me then scooted her butt to me again so I stepped away and she turned her head and looked at me again and I held my hand out and she turned her shoulder toward me so I stepped up and she let me pet her on the withers and then right up to her head. I went and rode my gelding and then came to see her again before I left and she walked up and sniffed me and did not offer her butt. So I think I will just keep this routine of ignoring her back end and only responding when she actually looks at me cuz if today is any indication she is responding to it. She seems more responsive to attention (or lack of it) then to food or treats which is fine cuz I hardly give my gelding treats and don't have many on hand ;)

Thanks for all the great advice!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,510 Posts
That's fantastic! It definately sounds like it won't be hard to re-program her if she has spots just as itchy as her bum. She'll figure out fast her nose gets her farther then her tail does :lol:
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top