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Opinions on a hoof question

4K views 25 replies 13 participants last post by  Fifi Bay 
#1 ·
Let me give you a little background first......
When I first started riding my Quarter Horse gelding even before I leased him. he had front shoes on, one winter and summer he had shoes on all four feet. Then went back to just the front shoes. About 2 years ago, I moved him closer to home and had to switch farriers, he decided that Barney could go without shoes, the front shoes were pulled and he's fine, not ouchies, lameness or anything.
What I'm needed opinion on is this, keep in mind that the farrier leaves the toe a bit long and he's done about every 8 weeks. I notice that just after 2 weeks of being trimmed, his feet start getting chippy. Should I not worry about it, have them trimmed every 4-6 weeks, or try a supplement to toughen the hooves up, the farrier and the barn manager tell me not to worry about it. The farrier also told me to just put conditioner on them here and there depending on how dry it is out during the summer time and not worry about it in the winter.
Sorry so long but figured I'd give you guys as much info as possible, any thoughts, ideas, opinions? I don't want to put shoes back on him unless it's absolutely necessary.
 
#5 ·
I found my horses used to chip when they were getting more of a 'farrier' trim as opposed to a 'barefoot' trim.

The key to no chipping is the roll. The outer wall is actually not designed to bear weight - When it does, movement forces it to seperate from the inner wall/sole and either flare or chip.

The roll rasps away the surface of the outer wall that would touch the ground, leaving the inner wall to do it's job and support weight, and takes away the mechanical forces that cause chips and flares.
 
#6 ·
Since the horse had shoes on, the hoof walls do soften up, as well as the soles and frog becuase the shoe provides protection. A hoof supplement to stregthen the walls is always a good idea.

Why is he leaving the toes long? On back feet, it's natural for the horse's hooves to be more pointy, but on the front feet they are rounder. I don't know why he wouldn't round it off, but to me a long toe is just begging to be broken off or chipped. Hoof dressings also help to keep the hoof moist enough to be more flexible and not crack. Basically, you want a strong, supple hoof wall. =)
 
#7 ·
In my opinion, small chips are much to do about nothing. I have been maintaining my own horses barefoot for about 5 years now. I have never had a small chip cause a problem.

I agree with wild_spot, it is probably a sign that your horses need a good rasping around the edges of their feet.

If you have big chips or chunks coming off, then the feet are too long. But if you are having a farrier trim them regularly, then that shouldn't be a problem.

If you are comfortable doing it, I would just buy a regular rasp and rasp them between trims. If you are not comfortable doing it, just have the farrier roll the edges more aggressively when he comes out, and don't worry about the small chips in between times. :)
 
#8 · (Edited)
PS. I don't use hoof supplements. My guys have really good feet. I suspect it is because I feed alfalfa, which has a lot of protein. But if your horse doesn't have good feet for some reason, I would be looking at the quality of your hay and/or pasture, not buying hoof supplements. I don't think they would hurt, it's just that they are expensive and a healthy horse really shouldn't need them if they have a good diet otherwise. Just my opinion, I'm not an expert in nutrition or anything. :lol:

PSS. Hard feet are your friend. I never use anything to soften them up or keep them soft either. External hoof dressing, while making the foot look good, I don't think actually does anything for the hoof quality. I would say invest in a cheap rasp and just rasp between trims. If you are not taking off length from the hoof bottom, but just rasping the chipped edges from the top, you really can't do much wrong. But I don't know your age or horse experience, so only do that if you are comfortable working with their feet.
 
#9 ·
chipping is the horse's way of self trimming I would be checking the balance of the trim.. I have one here on super hard ground that had her shoes pulled 5 weeks ago with no chips or cracks in site...
 
#10 ·
Wild-That makes total sense, thanks!
Chevy-the reason why he's leaving the toes long mainly in the front is from what I gather from the barn manager is that he's afraid if he trims the toes too short that the horses are going to end lame. At around 4 weeks, you can see the toes flare out and there are some major chips.
Trail and Peggy-I'll keep that in mind
You guys have given me a lot to think about.
 
#19 ·
Hi,

I agree mostly with what others have said already. I think it's so important for owners to educate themselves as much as possible rather than just trusting to whatever 'experts' may be at hand. It's important to understand the principles & factors, because aside from what your 'experts' like, most factors of hoof health are up to you, the owner.

Chevy-the reason why he's leaving the toes long mainly in the front is from what I gather from the barn manager is that he's afraid if he trims the toes too short that the horses are going to end lame.
Sounds possible he doesn't appreciate the mechanics of what he's doing or how a hoof functions. But so saying, only got your few words & not even any pics to go on, so wouldn't want to make judgments on him without a LOT more info - but certainly questioning.

At around 4 weeks, you can see the toes flare out and there are some major chips.
For many horses, 4 weeks, sometimes even less is an optimum schedule for a trim. For most horses, 8 weeks is too long. Amount of growth depends a lot on amount of hoof function/exercise. The more miles covered, the quicker the hooves grow. I would be working to *keep* the feet in good shape, rather than allowing them to become overgrown & then 'correcting'. Therefore I'd take the flaring as a sign of overgrowth. Wouldn't leave them longer than 4 weeks. But once you learn the principles, you may find you want to learn the practice, and a good farrier should be willing to show you how to at least do a 'touch up' trim, so you may be able to keep them in shape & still keep the 8-week farrier schedule.

Sending some hoof pics & more info on his management would be helpful if you want more specific advice.
 
#11 ·
I am English, but have lived in the US for the past 9 years, I can remember calling my farrier and freaking out because my horses hoof chipped, and I never experienced this in years and years of owning a horse in the UK. I imagine (am guessing) it is because of the dry climate here.
My farrier laughed quite a bit and told me to calm down and that it was normal.
 
#13 ·
Hmm... you guys have given me a lot to mull over, I looked to see if there were any barefoot trimmers in the area but there aren't and the one that I did find that I did find, charges an ungodly amount. I thinking I'm going to have to talk to the farrier about rolling the toe over more and to shorten them up a bit. I going to try applying hoof conditioner more often then I do right now and see how that goes.
I think that sounds like a plan!
 
#16 ·
I thinking I'm going to have to talk to the farrier about rolling the toe over more and to shorten them up a bit. I going to try applying hoof conditioner more often then I do right now and see how that goes.
You've received very good advice already. If you ask your farrier to shorten the toe more, make sure that he does not remove sole while doing it. Barefoot horses need sole, and that is one of the main reasons that horses are ouchy after a trimming by some farriers.
 
#14 ·
There are a lot of good websites with a lot of info on a correct barefoot trim to help you educate yourself. Pete Ramey has a good one called barehoofcare (I think!).

Have a google and educate yourself on what a good trim looks like and what the roll will look like - it is really good stuff to know.
 
#18 ·
This pic shows what a strong roll or bevel looks like from the outside wall. There are other pics on my PB if you wish to view them. Basically do not rasp flat across the bottom of the hoof to achieve a shorter toe, this will result in a gimpy horse. Doing a roll as you see here will not rasp off any sole and will allow the inner edge next to the sole to help protect. Google some barefoot photos and sites to educate yourself and then share them with your farrier. Traditional barefoot(pasture trim)trimming often does not properly address the outside wall this way. It really helps.

my photobucket
 
#20 ·
I'd get a new farrier, one that specializes in natural barefoot trimming... it makes a world of difference for your horse... and leaving the toes long is NOT natural and in 5 years you might be dealing with something yuckier than a few chips...

As far as a 'supplement' for your horse... don't go buying expensive hoof supplements... make sure your horse is getting the necessary vitamins/minerals that it needs... i gave my old horse (who had hideous feet) flax meal (about a 1/4 C. a day, and the farrier couldn't believe the change in her feet after a few months. I just buy ground flax seeds at the grocery story and it's pretty cheap.
 
#21 ·
#22 ·
Hi Luvs2jump, afraid there are so many ifs, buts & maybes, along with a few things I flatly disagree with in that first doc by Cavallo, that I'll just say I basically disagree with their advice & that it is potentially asking for trouble to trim in such a manner. Looks a bit Strasser-ish. barefoothorse.com & barehorsecare.com are 2 more great sites with the basic principles of trimming also. Sorry to put another spanner in your works, but it's a good illustration of the importance of learning the *theory & principles* behind the practices in order to make an informed decision on what sort of approach you'll go with.

Of the second link, looks like mainly pretty good info in it. It seems to depend on who you ask as to people's definitions & symptoms of lami & founder tho, so I wouldn't consider it wrong at all, but is different to mine. Lami for eg. may have no obvious symptoms at all for eg. Horses are not always in pain with it, and it may then be termed 'Low-Grade-Laminitis'(LGL). Also the mechanical progression of the untreated 'disease' - founder - doesn't necessarily include 'rotation' of the coffin bone. It is common for a horse to founder(literally means 'sink') without rotation, as the separated coffin bone drops in relation to the capsule. This is commonly seen in racehorses & other intensively kept & fed beasts & causes the 'typical flat TB foot'.
 
#24 ·
Yeah, the Cavallo hoof trimming article produced a very "pretty" trim, but in my opinion, at least with my horses and riding in the rocks and such, I would never take sole off the bottom of the hoof unless it was coming off on it's own and I was just helping it along. And I really don't trim the bars unless they get long, and I don't go cutting around (or rasping) into the sole either, especially if you take the hoof wall down as short as the sole. ( I normally try to leave a little hoof wall too, and not rasp the wall down right into the sole).

So yeah, the trim was pretty, but unless your horses are tougher than mine, they WILL need hoof boots after a trim like that. I honestly don't see why they were trimming the sole at all in that article. Although it created a pretty trim. :?
 
#26 ·
pictures of Rylee and Fifi :D

heyy luvs2jump, this has nothing to do with this thread but would you be able to make a photoshoped picture of me and Fifi, (i wasnt sure weather ive told you my name over pm but anyway if not its Rylee :) LOL

if you dont wanna do a photoshoped pic you can just chose any photo program of what you choose :) could you please do it 4 me ???????

if so here is a few pictures of Fifi:
 

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