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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I've always been confused by the whole Paint/Pinto thing. When I bought my horse, she had been registered with the now defunct American Indian Paint Horse Association. Frida's mother was pure arab (reg AHA), and her father was full paint (reg APHA) I found out that I can't register Fri with the APHA because they dont allow Arabs, so I registered her as half-arab with the AHA. My trainer told me that in England they don't even consider the Paint a breed, but a color, same as Pinto. Also, I've heard some say there are no American Indian Paint Horses, that most of the time that means they are basically QH's, so some people even call my horse a Half Arab/Half QH. What's your take? Does she even look like a QH? do Paints look like QH's? I don't even recall ever seeing a pure Paint...I board at a Pro QH barn and most of the horses are champion reiners, or retired champion reiners. She looks and moves nothing like them. They are all built like Diesel engines, lol.

 

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Your mare would be eligible to register as Pinto (PtHA-- a registry that has been around since the 1930's)-- Pinto is a "limited" color registry-- they do have a few restrictions as far as type and breeds (no draft, no appaloosa, no grade stallions-- stallions are not eligible to be registered unless they have both parents registered with Pinto or an approved breed registry.)

The American Paint Horse Association has been around since the 1960s, and before that there were two other similar associations started with similar purposes (they merged in the 60's to form APHA). APHA has always had the stock type colored horse as a focus, and early-on they limited bloodlines-- for a t least 3 decades now they have had no provision for registering any grade horses on color, but require all APHA horses to be from registered APHA, AQHA, or Thoroughbred bloodlines. More recently they further restricted their breeding so that all horses must have one APHA registered parent to be eligible for APHA registration.

So based on the above, I would consider the APHA Paint to be a limited-book breed-- they accept 2 other related breeds for crossing, so there will be similarities in type to those breeds in some bloodlines.

PtHA Pinto I would consider a color registry limited to light/riding type horses and ponies from approved and/or known bloodlines. There is greater variety because they allow at least 19 approved breeds, and they do have divisions in their registry based on type.

Both registries also register solids from approved/registered parents, and allow them to show, but seperately from the fully registered horses that meet the color qualifications.

There are other paint/pinto registries out there, but the above two are by far the oldest, largest, and most widely recognized and "meaningful" (IMO) for paints/pintos.

There are many half-Arabian pintos dual-registered with PtHA, and their shows have show classes just for the Arab type-- its an option you might want to look into if there are PtHA shows in your area.

Cute mare BTW!
 

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People will claim upside, backwards, and forwards that Paints and QH's are the same. They no longer are the same. It would be like saying the Andalusian and Lusitano are the same. They also are not.

With the specialization of QH's for each of the western disciplines, the QH looks very different than the Paint in most cases...over and above the color factor. There also tend to be very distinct differences in temperament.

You will of course find some individuals that resemble each other between the breeds depending on genetics, but shared blood several generations back is of no consequence and irrelevant. Only the first couple of generations matter.

I can see both the Arab and Paint traits in your mare and overall it's a good blend. She is not structured like a QH reiner, so it's no surprise she doesn't move like one.
 

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Mercedes you are still just as wrong as the last time you tried to debate about the separation of Paints and QH's. The APHA allows outcrosses to QH's and TB's. Quarter Horses and Paints compete in the exact same events often with each other. Paints that rein look just like QH's that rein. QH's that race look like Paints that race. I challenge you to find a paint horse pedigree that doesn't have a QH in the first 3 generations. You will find very few that don't have a QH in the first or second generations. In this case you are wrong don't compound it with repetition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So I guess I have to delve into her sire's lineage to find out for sure? There are no significant qualities that I can find that are exclusive to the paint breed. Only that they have a "similiar body type to a Quarterhorse" and of course, the color pattern. I spoke to the breeder and asked why she did this, if her intent was purposeful. She said it was to try to get a horse that had both endurance and strength, healthy but still somewhat delicate, as well as a more level-headed temperament. I will look into the PtHa. I don't even know what she would be well-suited for, and it's getting to be around the time that I need to choose a discipline, as we are currently doing the basics. I rode hunter/jumper for 10+ years, but considered dressage (my trainer's forte) By getting her breed strengths and weaknesses sorted out, I thought it might be easier to decide.
 

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Cowboy doesn't have QH in the first three generations n___nb I'm pretty sure Tuff doesn't either, but he was just born last year so he doesn't count, but Cowboy's 9 now, so I guess he's an oddity in Kevin's world?
 

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Cowboy doesn't have QH in the first three generations n___nb I'm pretty sure Tuff doesn't either, but he was just born last year so he doesn't count, but Cowboy's 9 now, so I guess he's an oddity in Kevin's world?
Post a copy of the papers and prove me wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Do you have her sire's and dam's registered names? if you could post them, we could research and have fun along with you, speculating what she might excell at based on ancestry.....
I would ABSOLUTELY love that! I don't have membership privileges as of yet.

Sire: Britches in a Twist #103393
Dam: Ayr Bint Reba #0538930

Thanks so much!
 

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People will claim upside, backwards, and forwards that Paints and QH's are the same. They no longer are the same. It would be like saying the Andalusian and Lusitano are the same. They also are not.

With the specialization of QH's for each of the western disciplines, the QH looks very different than the Paint in most cases...over and above the color factor. There also tend to be very distinct differences in temperament.
Riddle me this then, if a QH and a Paint horse are so different in looks, temperament and discipline, then what do you call a double registered AQHA/APHA horse?

Which one is a Paint horse and which one is a QH....
www.ragingimpulse.com
www.bigchextocash.com
www.ironstarman.com
Rocking WC Ranch ~ Home of AQHA/APHA Stallion The Will To Do
Cross Creek Farm Tuf
Spooks Gotta Gun : AQHA-APHA Bay Overo Stallion
 

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The APHA allows outcrosses to QH's and TB's.
EXACTLY! Allowing other breeds into a registry allows changes within the breed to occur.

Quarter Horses and Paints compete in the exact same events often with each other.
Only if they aren't specifically APHA or AQHA or specfied in some other manner. If it's an AQHA event, there aren't any 'Paints' in it unless the AQHA has allowed said Paint to be registered with them.

It's irrelevant what criteria allow the horses to be cross-registered. Both Lusitanos and Andalusians can be registered in some of the same registries, doesn't make them the same horse.

I challenge you to find a paint horse pedigree that doesn't have a QH in the first 3 generations. You will find very few that don't have a QH in the first or second generations.
That'll depend on breeders programs and who's breeding true to type and who's trying to get individuals capable of being double registered to increase their value. There certainly are alot of QH's that don't have Paints in them for breeders who want to compete in AQHA only...too risky if they get color, even from a breeding stock Paint.
 

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I honestly think they need to close the books. None of this AQHA and APHA cross registry bull. If we're going to do that, let's throw our hats in the air, and create a Stock Horse Association where as long as the horse it to 'type', let them compete against each other.
 

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Mercedes In most of your posts you seem quite knowledgeable but this is one area where you are very underinformed. The AQHA will register anything that has two AQHA parents. It no longer matters how much white the horse has on it, therefore, there is no risk in breeding to double registered horses. Paint horses and QH share the same type of conformation and many of the same bloodlines. You can argue all you want but that is the fact. I'm sure in many areas you are well informed but this is not one of them. Paints compete with QH's on the race track and in reining and cutting with much success. Other breeds are allowed to compete in NRHA, NCHA and NRCHA events but they have little to no success because they lack the natural drive and athletisism that is inherent in the APHA and AQHA horses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·


I can't understand this for the life of me, nor have I ever attempted to read one before. Here is her mom's pedigree. Now I have to dig up her dad's. Can anyone translate this for me? Or do any of the names look familiar? I ave spent far too much time learning about her lineage today, more than I have on my own family tree. I think I'm going to go play with her now, lol.
 

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I've heard of Bask and Kemosabi so they must be pretty famous. I don't know much about arab bloodlines.
 
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