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Recently I acquired a horse that had pretty much come up lame before I got him. The previous owners had the vet take x-rays and the vet diagnosed it as pedal osteitis due to bad trimming and shoeing in the past. I knew what I was getting into when I took him, and was told that he has a mild case and that riding him often will be good for his condition. While I believe that (he is stiff at first but after warming him up he moves fine) I think that he may have been misdiagnosed. Also, the vet and farrier had agreed that shoes with pads should always be kept on him due to him being so tender footed now. This all happened before I got him, and now that I have is x-rays and have looked at them and looked closely at his feet I'm just not sure that the info I was told coincides with what I have been reading. I almost believe he may just have laminitis or may have foundered. While I trust the vet and the farrier, I just want some opinions from people that may have had some experience with this sort of thing. I also noticed small growth rings on his hooves. Here are pictures of his x rays:

X-ray Joint Radiography Room Service

Joint X-ray Photography Cloud Radiography

White Footwear Shoe Leg Finger

Joint Footwear Leg Shoe Finger
 

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He is foundered. The oedal osteitis is likely from both that and the awful shoeing shown in those Xrays. Those are terrible quality X-rays, the laterals are not taken level and there are no markers on the foot to evaluate how far the bone is sunk. I recommend getting fresh ones from a vet with digital equipment so the current condition and position of the coffin bones can be better evaluated, and a shoeing plan made from that.
 

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And if he is a candidate for metabolic syndrome or Cushings syndrome due to breed, age or just his body appearance (cresty neck,weird fat pads and or curly long hair ) it must be addressed. And if he is cushings it will be a long downhill battle.
 

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Yep, while pedal osteitis is also a likely problem - bit subjective & hard to tell from those rads - if the vet didn't mention the founder/chronic laminitis... and the funky 'ski tip' remodelling of the point of P3....

I agree that he needs protection under his feet(probably OK bare in the paddock), but given the state of them, I'd opt for padded hoof boots over conventional shoes which will be further loading hoof walls.
 

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That looks like a pretty serious founder. I wonder when it happened? That ski lift tip-how long does a hoof take to remodel to that? Does this look like a recent founder?
 

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I agree that he needs protection under his feet(probably OK bare in the paddock), but given the state of them, I'd opt for padded hoof boots over conventional shoes which will be further loading hoof walls.
Though I believe this horse needs shoes, I never recommend "conventional" shoeing...even for sound horses... ;-)
 

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Though I believe this horse needs shoes, I never recommend "conventional" shoeing...even for sound horses... ;-)
Fair enough. What sort of shoes would you suggest then? & what's your definition of conventional shoes? What I mean by that are steel(or otherwise) rims.
 

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Fair enough. What sort of shoes would you suggest then? & what's your definition of conventional shoes? What I mean by that are steel(or otherwise) rims.
My definition of "conventional shoes" are flat metal shoes fit to the edge of the foot including the end of the toe , and often without frog support. As to founder shoeing treatments there are a myriad of great options to jump start a foot to better health faster than barefoot. The most complex would be a full EDSS adjustable rail and frog support system (for the extremely lame acute and very serious cases) to much simpler therapeutic shoeing packages for those that are pretty stable and chronic like this one. Those include but are not limited to plastic Stewart clogs, or aluminum natural balance shoes with frog support pads and dental impression material in the caudal portion of the foot, to wooden clogs, to glue on plastic shoes filled with Equipack for added frog support, and even a backward steel shoe with only the back half filled with sole support material to completely unload the toe and load the frog.
It's all about the right mechanics for that foot . A good inventive therapeutic farrier can take crap like an old tire out of the garage and make good shoes out of it it if helps the horse. You will NEVER see me nail on a flat traditional steel plate shoe that I have not modified from its factory intended fit and function. I WILL use steel NB shoes, steel centre fits, half rounds, modified other steel shoes changed to to enhance breakover, but never, ever plain flat steel fit all the way to the edge of the toe.
 

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My definition of "conventional shoes" are flat metal shoes fit to the edge of the foot including the end of the toe ... As to founder shoeing treatments there are a myriad of great options to jump start a foot to better health faster than barefoot.
Looks like your definition is more restrictive than mine.:wink: While I really like the EDSS shoes, pads, etc, it's still using the fixed rim to peripherally load the walls. I'd call 'natural balance' conventional too. *Not saying necessarily bad, just conventional.

Your experience with 'jump starting' & speed of treating founder is obviously different to mine too, as I've seen far more success without conventional shoes(inc special pads, etc), although that's not to say that barefoot is necessarily best or adequate either. As it is the laminar corium/laminae/walls that are most effected & compromised in laminitis/founder, IME I believe relieving them and providing support/protection to the entire bottom of the foot is the way to go and think peripherally loading already weak walls is contraindicative.

So... there you go OP, 2 more conflicting opinions to learn more about & ponder!:wink:

Oh, meant to mention earlier, with so much bone remodelling at the tip of P3 like that, while you can (hopefully) make this horse sound, his feet may never look normal & beware of any farrier who wants to try to make them look this way, in relation to length/shape of toe.
 

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While I really like the EDSS shoes, pads, etc, it's still using the fixed rim to peripherally load the walls. I'd call 'natural balance' conventional too. *Not saying necessarily bad, just conventional.
That entire system , (including the correct trim and application of plain steel NB shoes with no pads) , is designed to include and even enhance the frog support and function thereby eliminating the peripheral loading issue. It is HUGELY different from traditional shoeing in that important respect.
 

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This is a typical *correct* trim in preparation for a NB shoe. The whole back of the fog will be on the ground after the job is done. That combined with NOT picking the dirt out of the feet eliminates the perimeter loading issues. :D
 

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enhance the frog support and function thereby eliminating the peripheral loading issue. It is HUGELY different from traditional shoeing in that important respect.
EDSS pads etc obviously enhance frog support and reduces peripheral loadingt *compared to rims without* but i ccant understand or agree with your opinion that it eliminates peripheral loading, especially rim shoes without pads, whatever brand. Interested to know also why long term use of NB shoes haves been associated with heel contraction, compared to regular rims heard that from a few Farriers but no one has known why.
 

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Interested to know also why long term use of NB shoes haves been associated with heel contraction, compared to regular rims heard that from a few Farriers but no one has known why.
That is totally false perception based on gross misapplications of the shoes (any shoes for that matter) CORRECTLY applied NB and EDSS OPENS the back of the foot , widens the frog and broadens the heels. I have (many many times) taken previously contracted feet and made them tons wider in NB shoes. In other words, long narrow, oval, contracted feet changed , to round open wide big frog feet, in just a few shoeings....all the the time.

It is so sad that such false ideas about something get taken as fact when all the factors were were not known. Often, besides some gross misapplication of the system, is that someone sees the very first NB shoeing on a horse that had suffered from years of bad shoeing before. They then ASSume that the NB shoes caused the problem without knowing that the years of bad shoeing previously was the culprit. Really makes me mad.
 

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It is so sad that such false ideas about something get taken as fact when all the factors were were not known. Often, besides some gross misapplication of the system, is that someone sees the very first NB shoeing on a horse that had suffered from years of bad shoeing before. They then ASSume that the NB shoes caused the problem without knowing that the years of bad shoeing previously was the culprit. Really makes me mad.
You may notice I said 'has been associated with' - wasn't clear but I do not feel I have enough info to go on, to take it as anything like 'fact' at this point. Yes, I agree that it is irritating when people assume 'facts' based on faulty anecdotal assumptions. I'm curious about this assertion, as well as any info to the contrary, as I have very little experience with NB - have only personally seen them 'grossly misapplied':shock:

FYI no, I only speak of a few good farriers among the acres of bad ones I've come across so I don't believe 'gross misapplication' is the culprit, & no, it isn't anything to do with 1st experiences of seeing NB on already contracted feet either, but that it has been noticed that *compared to normal shoes, including those shaped in the same manner as NB re balance*, long term use of NB appears to *cause* contraction. I suspect it may be to do with the NB shoes being less malleable & the heels are often too narrow for uncontracted hooves....
 

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^Haha, hi Amazin, long time no hear! Yes, I put it well, didn't I?? I meant that as it is still a rim shoe, I don't understand how Patty could think it eliminates peripheral loading, & I disagree that it does.
 

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I don't understand how Patty could think it eliminates peripheral loading, & I disagree that it does.
The requirements to have 'peripheral loading' are:
1)only the hoof wall (shod or not) is touching the ground,
2) Frog must be totally off the ground.
3) there is nothing available to fill that void between the sole, frog and the ground. In other words the foot has been cleaned of all packed material and is now standing on a very hard flat surface.

The INSTANT that badly shod (no frog support) foot is placed in a yielding surface such as dirt and the hoofwall sinks in ,the frog and sole are loaded by the dirt and supported. The foot is no longer peripheral loaded.

That is simple physics.

And in environments where the ground is not suitable to support the frog and sole the foot can be artificially filled with man made support materials to do the job. These materials are designed to mimic the density of a good pliable frog so the massage and stimulate the frog and sole with every step.

So to summarize ,If ANY part of the bottom of the foot is loaded besides the hoofwall it is no longer peripheral loaded. And that is entirely possible to do with shoes.
 

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Also I would love to see pics of some of the shoeings with NB that you have seen that have contracted heels I could quickly point out the misapplications in them.

I have seen so many put on wrong in my travels around the country that I can probably tell you without seeing them what the problem was, if the heels were close together.
Nearly always they were not mapped correctly so the shoe was not the right size nor set in the right place on the foot. As little as 1/4" to 3/8" off in shoe placement forward or back can be a HUGE mistake on some feet and only someone really knowledgeble in the correct use of them would see it.
 
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