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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking at a Percheron/Thoroughbred cross gelding as a possible new event horse...anyone have any experience with this cross? He is well-trained, athletic, young, good jumper, good conformation...just wanted to hear if anyone has had any success/unsuccess with this cross. :-|
 

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The ones I've seen have looked horrible. Big head, big body, little legs/feet. I'm sure there are some good looking crosses out there though.

Do you have any pictures?
 

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Don't let the draft cross part scare you away. There are some really nice draft crosses out there (I have one!) however, it would be impossible to tell if you have found one without pics. This cross can go very wrong.
 

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Percheron/TBs can be great! Of course every individual horse is different. Last year I worked for a Dressage barn that specialized in breeding and training TB/Percheron crosses. These were top notch horses, FEI horses. A few were grand prix dressage horses. They all had varying degrees of percheron and TB. I had the pleasure of breaking in a young Percheron x Percheron/TB named Irwin. He is my favorite horse in the whole world. Most willing and athletic horse I have ever had the pleasure of working with. I miss him so bad.
Here is a link to that farm's website if you want to have a look at their horses: Dressage Horses for Sale

Good luck! I would love to see pictures of the horse you are looking at.

Jubilee
 

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Sorry for double posting, I just wanted to show some great pictures of some of the horses I knew at the barn I worked at. All of these photos are taken by Jennifer Kaiser of Forrest Hill Farm and Kaiser Dressage

Portmanteau Registered American Warmblood (Percheron/TB) FEI Stallion (Sire was the late Cottonwood Flame, a USDF Grand Prix gold medal percheron)




Victor, another Percheron/TB bred by Forrest Hill Farm. He is also a Grand Prix winning horse. Here he is pictured with his owner Ellen Denis as she is earning her USDF Gold Medal






Here is Bret, another Forrest Hill Percheron/TB. He is about 90% blind and yet he is still one of the most talented dressage horses I have had the pleasure of knowing.


Of course, not all Percheron/TBs are going to be like theses ones, but I just wanted to show you how great they can be.

Jubilee
 

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I'm looking at a Percheron/Thoroughbred cross gelding as a possible new event horse...anyone have any experience with this cross? He is well-trained, athletic, young, good jumper, good conformation...just wanted to hear if anyone has had any success/unsuccess with this cross. :-|
If your talking training level and lower eventing, ride a camel for all it matters. If your talking Prelim and up...probably not going to work. The cross will have a too high ratio of the bulky fast twitch muscles and won't have the speed and stamina to make the CC times.
 

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If your talking training level and lower eventing, ride a camel for all it matters. If your talking Prelim and up...probably not going to work. The cross will have a too high ratio of the bulky fast twitch muscles and won't have the speed and stamina to make the CC times.

Please don't generalize. I can't speak specifically for the horse that hrsrdr is looking at, but Percheron/TBs can be great upper level show horses. Look again at the photos I posted. All three of those horses are exactly half percheron half TB. Cottonwood Flame was a pure percheron and he was a Grand Prix winning horse. My trainer earned her USDF gold medal on him. He is dead now, but his babies have done phenomenal in the show ring. Grant it, these are dressage horses I am talking about, I don't know a whole lot about eventing, but I do know that some of Woody's babies have gone on to be eventing horses and Woody himself spent a time as an eventing horse.

It is true that SOME percheron crosses are going to be slow and bulky, but you can't generalize them all that way because it is just not true. I hate it when people write off a horse as a potential show horse and athlete just because they are part draft. In my opinion, Percheron/TB's can be the perfect combination for an athlete. It all depends on the individual.

Jubilee
 

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^ THANK YOU!! I was about to post the same thing.

It all depends on who the parents are and what their talent/conformation is like. If the parents have poor conformation, yeah, the baby is going to have poor conformation. But it's like that in ANY breed. You can't just generalize draft crosses like that.

I have found that it also depends on the specific percentage of draft. Many half crosses are heavier, and have a worse reputation because of it. But that doesn't mean they can't go above Training! This is why many people are driven away from draft crosses, because they are grouped together as untalented and ugly. Not true of all of them!

3/4 TB 1/4 Draft is my favorite cross. It has the best of both worlds. Stamina of the TB, heart of the TB, and the kind mind and sturdiness of the draft.
 

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If your talking training level and lower eventing, ride a camel for all it matters. If your talking Prelim and up...probably not going to work. The cross will have a too high ratio of the bulky fast twitch muscles and won't have the speed and stamina to make the CC times.

I am sorry, you may mean well, but you seem to have a lot of very negative comments all over the forums, I think you could have come up with a nicer way to get your message out there.

At the OP: There are some very talented draft crosses out there, not all of them are going to be bulky monsters. Check out the eventing percheron blog if you want to see a pure bred percheron doing well at eventing even.

Some pictures of your possible purchase may help us help you a little more too. If he is well-trained and seems like a sweet horse, then I would go for it anyway, if you out grow him in a couple of years at least you got the experience with a good calm horse and can move to something bigger and better later.
 

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The user on the HF Promodus produces some VERY nice draft crosses. Check them out!
 

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Please don't generalize.
How can we not generalize? We must generalize for the sake of the discussion, or there's nothing to talk about as the answer will always be...sure, go ahead. Which is just plain bad advice.

There are always exceptions to the rule, the fact remains, the majority of F1 draft crosses are going to be too big and bulky to make the CC times. Period, end of story. If anything else was different, then the international eventing scene would be full of them and the truth is, it is not.

A handful of success stories in another discipline that requires something completely different of the horse, does not a rule make. Give me a break already.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
WHOA things seem to have gotten pretty sensitive here and it all seems to all stem from my not posting pictures of the horse...I'm very sorry everybody. It is true for every crossbreed that some unlucky individuals seem to inherit the worst of each breed, but in this case I think the gelding got the best...the power of the percheron tempered with the athletecism of the Thoroughbred. Here are links to a few videos of the horse (I believe he is 3/4 Percheron, which at first took me a little aback but he really looks like he has much more TB):

YouTube - sirjames3's Channel riding

YouTube - sirjames3's Channel loungeing

YouTube - sirjames3's Channel jumping

Since I started this thread I have actually tried him out and really liked him...he has very good, powerful movement and seems very athletic, while still a bit green.

Let me know what you think!
 

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Oh, and to answer your question, Mercedes, I am planning to start at the bottom of the event levels (as he is fairly green and has never competed except for a few foxhunts) so I'm planning to start him at Beginner Novice, up through Novice, roughly where I am, and then hopefully we'll both be able to go from there as high as we can!
 

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He looks great to me! My gelding is a perch/paint/clyde/TB, not sure of the exact percentages but moves along very nicely and at 5, has discovered he really likes to jump! Very brave, sane horse.
 

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hrsrdr, I absolutely love the look of him! Thank you for posting videos because I know that these will help clear the air a little. I think it would be a mistake NOT to give him a try. Especially if you are starting out at the bottom. I absolutely love his energy and cadence. He seems so quiet and willing too (as far as what I can tell from the video). I love how round he stays throughout without any head tossing. If I had to pick one thing to complain about I think I would say that his back is a little longer than my taste, but that is hard to tell from tacked riding video. But it is nothing I would worry about, especially at this level. Remember I'm also a dressage girl, we like shorter backs. I don't know what you look at for jumping. And at points he seems to be a little on the forehand, but you said yourself that he is still green. Improvement will come with time and training. From the impression I get from the video, he seems like a horse I would enjoy riding. He has the appears as though he would do well in the dressage portion too.

He has my two thumbs up. If you like him and feel that click I say go for it!

Oh, and about the 3/4 percheron deal: it is amazing to me how that TB gene really shows through sometimes. This past summer I broke in a gelding that was 3/4 Percheron. He was the most athletic and willing horse I have ever ridden. I am pretty sure that if he stays in the right hands he is going to go Grand Prix one of these days. I think people are too quick to write this big guys off when really they can have so much to give.

Keep us posted on what you decided to do,

Jubilee
 

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I think we have some basic misunderstandings here.

First of all, the lovely horses pictured appear to be 1/4 or 1/8 draft, not 1/2.

If they are 50% draft, then they are the result of an F2 or F3 cross (Second or third generation) carefully selected for the Thoroughbred-y musclature and to closely resemble European warmbloods.

The usual F1, Percheron/TB cross comes out much more drafty, more like a gentleman's heavy field hunter than an event horse. Of course there are exceptions, because we're talking about a cross, not a breed that runs relatively true to type.

The OP asked a general question about suitability as a prospect, and did not mention specifics about the horse she was looking at. As such, Mercedes answer was completely correct - an F1 cross usually results in a horse too drafty to be conditioned to gallop at the speeds required at Training and above.

If the OP's highest amibition is Novice and the occassional Training level event, it doesn't really matter, as stated. If her ambition was to compete at higher levels, than the advice she received was accurate and sound.

I can't count the number of times in the critique section that it's been stated that conformation and/or breeding is not a signifigant concern at lower levels of dressage and eventing; that any sound, healthy horse can be conditioned and competed successfully.
 

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Ok, this really is not worth arguing any more. I just wish people would stop saying I don't know what I'm talking about when I really do.

I posted those photos. They are of horses I know personally. I worked with them for 7 months last year. As I have said before, not all (in fact most) percheron/tbs are going to look like them or be as successful as them. I posted them to demonstrate the potential of a Percheron/TB cross. All three of those horses are in fact exactly half and half. Let me use Portmanteau as an example since he looks the least like a percheron. His sire was Cottonwood Flame, a registered black percherone stallion: Cottonwood Flame Percheron His dam was Attache, a TB mare by Caribbean Line:Attache Thoroughbred

If you doubt me then check out Forrest Hill Farm's website, they bred all three of those horses: Dressage Horses for Sale

Again, I REPEAT, not all Percheron/TBs are going to be like these horses. But they are out there. Why is that so hard to believe?

Sorry, I just needed to get that off my chest. Please, lets let the OP direct the way this thread goes from here on out.
 

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Oh, and to answer your question, Mercedes, I am planning to start at the bottom of the event levels (as he is fairly green and has never competed except for a few foxhunts) so I'm planning to start him at Beginner Novice, up through Novice, roughly where I am, and then hopefully we'll both be able to go from there as high as we can!
He'll be fine for that. I doubt he'll ever make the CC time of a Prelim course, but you're a long way from that, and may discover he excels in a different arena once you get some training into him.

Good luck and enjoy him.
 
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