[cjedsall]

We have a new pony. She is a 2 - 1/2 yr old mare. We also have a 5 - 1/2 yr old gelding miniature horse. They needed a new home & although we are NOVICES I hated to see them seperated and the children loved them. I love them, too. I realize that at this stage, anything that has happened is basically because they have let it happen. They do have to be stalled for awhile as they came from a dirt pony yard to ours that is still full of green grass that I let grow for them. I didn't consider FOunder & so restrict them and am weaning in.

We are into Week one today. For 2 days now, when I say go home, Rocky runs to the pen. Yesterday, as I was praising him and wishing he would let me pet him, Shug, the mare, came up & kicked me. I have never been kicked & it got my hand, esp. the middle finger. I was so shocked that all I could think was put it in the trough so It feels better. After about4 minutes, I went back up and got her on the lead. She did fine but stood stockstill when i took her in.

What should i have done or should I do, please. She is more social than Rocky but I notice she is jealous if we look at him. She pinned her ears back before it happened.

I want this to work for our family & I appreciate your time and advice.

 

[PaintHorseMares]

What should i have done or should I do, please. She is more social than Rocky but I notice she is jealous if we look at him. She pinned her ears back before it happened.

Some horses to get jealous, but regardless, you need to establish the rules. If a horse ever turns their butt to you or makes a kicking motion towards you, immediately act BIG, yell, smack them, run them off, and go about your business like it didn't happen. This is how a lead horse handles that behavior in the herd, and the 'run off' horse will eventually approach with a better attitude to be 'accepted' back into the 'herd'.

 

[Scoutrider]

Do you have any access at all to a trainer, or someone with more horse experience? 2 1/2 and 5 1/2 are both young - you're essentially dealing with a 5 year old and a 12 year old on the maturity scale. As a novice, you'll need some on-site guidance, especially with such relatively young horses, and by the sound of it sooner rather than later.

Kicking cannot be tolerated, and your window to make this known to your filly is about 3 seconds - longer than that and she won't associate the correction with her infraction. Whether she was "just testing" or being more serious in her behavior, the rule still holds.

If my horse had kicked at me, he would have thought that I'd gone insane... drive the horse out of my space as fast as I can get those feet to move. If it takes a smack it takes a smack, with my hand, a brush, whatever. It will not hurt the horse - compared to another horse exercising the same authority it's nothing at all. That being said, it takes timing and no hesitation to be effective, something that, as a novice, you may not be able to accomplish right away.

Alongside recruiting some on-site help (either a trainer, instructor, or horsey friend), keep researching - your filly probably gave you some advance warning that she was thinking about kicking. Look for pinned ears, stiffness, no blinking, clamped tail, etc., and take that as your warning and nip it in the bud before she escalates to kicking.

Also, make sure that your family understands the concept of "the danger zone" and exercises extreme caution around both of their rear ends - either come behind them close enough that you're rubbing their bum (too close for a kick to have much force behind it) or 10 feet away (too far to reach).

Best of luck!

 

[cjedsall]

Thank you to both - excellent advice. I do have several very experienced individuals who are able to help me out. I found htis forum & thought it never hurts to have more advice.

 

[cjedsall]

As I was rereading the first post I had something come to my mind. She has turned her butt to me a couple of times before the kick. It wasn't 3-4 mintues later , she came up and tried muzzling or nuzzling me & I thought, "Well, she is trying to make friends or something - she knew she was wrong."

Also, The children and I have been talking about the danger zone of horses. When the 4 yr old saw Shug kick he said, Oh, now I know why. If that is all it would take for him to learn the lesson, it was worth it.

I thank you once again. I am excited for the day.

 

[ridergirl23]

I was always taught to kickback, with anything youcan, a foot to the belly usually sends a good strong message about how it is NOT tolerated. Then I would chase her from the group to show her I'm boss and you NEVER kick the boss.
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[Sunny]

It wasn't 3-4 mintues later , she came up and tried muzzling or nuzzling me & I thought, "Well, she is trying to make friends or something - she knew she was wrong."

This is not how horses think. Thinking they do will get you or someone else hurt.

Sunny had a kicking problem when I first bought her. As soon as her butt turned to me I would turn into the Incredible Hulk. I would yell, raise my arms, chase her off; I made her think her life was about to end. Then I would act like nothing happened. I had to do that maybe twice and she has never tried it again.
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[dressagebelle]

My mare has had very little handling, and she has kicked me on two occasions, both because she got so focused on something else that she forgot I was there, and when I touched her butt to get her to move over, and regain her attention, she kicked. I basically yank her head towards me, smack her butt, and make her move her butt away from me, and then I do a lot of making her feet move, and make her focus on me instead of whatever she was looking at. Now if she was kicking at me for any other reason, I would situation provided chase her off, yell scream ect., and then let her back only so long as she behaves.

 

[tinyliny]

I agree with the other posters that kicking cannot be tolerated.
If the mare is the dominant horse, then I would recommend that you take HER inside before the other horse. She should be fed first and lead first. It will be easier for all concerned.
You migt want to spend some time establishing YOUR dominance over her. Move her around whenever she starts giving you the vibes that she is jealous of your attention to the other horse. Just start pushing her around a bit, then let her go and turn to the other horse.
Pony's are more willing to challenge humans than horses are.

 

[tinyliny]

By "pushing" I don't mean literally pushing her. You don't want to be that close. I mean using your energy, or your energy supplimented by a swinging leadrope to mover her feet and get a shift in her attitude. You can tell because she will move away and her ears will no longer be pinned.

 

[faye]

It a horse threatens to kick you then you absolutely MUST punish them for it.

God help any of mine if they even thought about it. In the last 8 years I have only been kicked once (if you exclude a paniced pony), and I'm fairly sure that the pony who kicked me thought that the world was ending due to my reaction which involved alot of screaming, shouting, several wollops from the lead rope onto his side (very very hard) and me chucking a body brush at him (all within the space of about 30 seconds after the kick). He has never ever tried it again with anyone.

He still gives me cuddles and kisses and is generaly a lovely pony but he has never threatened to kick at anyone since then.

The only kick I have ever forgiven a horse for actualy happened last weekend with my new baby pony, the gate swang shut on him as we went through it and he was trapped, he paniced completely and unfortunatly whilst I was trying to free him from the gate he landed a kick on me. I've got the most enormous bruise on my leg, but he was laashing out at the gate that was trapping him and not at me, any telling off at that point would not only have made the situation worse but would have been completely unwarrented and would have scared the poor pony witless.

Kicking is a very very serious thing. The wort injury I have had from a kick landed me in hospital after a 11.2hh pony double barrelled me and sent me flying through a post and rail fence, knocking me out and breaking 2 ribs and my collar bone (this was when I was 15). I do know of several people who have been killed by a kick to the head.

 

[LadyGaGa]

Just out of curiosity and its only a thought...but how close were you to the other pony...? can you be sure she was aiming at you and not the other pony?...sometimes the feeder/owner becomes a prized possession to be guarded or claimed...I was wondering maybe if there was any chance that the kick was aimed at the other pony and you were the unwitting reciever..?.....just a thought as i dont know your proximity to the other pony at the time of the incident...
Hope your hand is better by the way..x

 

[cjedsall]

Thanks to all of you. It has been a long weekend. My husband was out there today & she is doing the same things. Our firend came over & she is doing it still more.

I feel a little frustrated today. My husband wants to sell her & just keep the mini and he has final say.

I hope tomorrow is better.

 

[Alwaysbehind]

Just out of curiosity and its only a thought...but how close were you to the other pony...? can you be sure she was aiming at you and not the other pony?...sometimes the feeder/owner becomes a prized possession to be guarded or claimed...I was wondering maybe if there was any chance that the kick was aimed at the other pony and you were the unwitting reciever..?.....just a thought as i dont know your proximity to the other pony at the time of the incident...

I am not sure why it really matters. Even if she was kicking at the other pony, when the human is around that is not OK. The human is in charge of the whole herd. No underling should be handing out punishment like that with the herd boss (human) standing there.

 

[LadyGaGa]

I am not sure why it really matters. Even if she was kicking at the other pony, when the human is around that is not OK. The human is in charge of the whole herd. No underling should be handing out punishment like that with the herd boss (human) standing there.

It matters because at the end of the day the pony is an animal driven by instinct...Horse psychology isnt quite the same as human psychology...lol...yes you may decide that it is unacceptable to participate in that type of behavior but nature never imparted your/our sensibilities on the animal therefore it is behavior that has to be discouraged through teaching its unacceptability..
The bottom line is this...if this filly hasnt been taught inappropriate behavior, how is she expected to practice acceptable behavior..?...I was asking a question to the OP to perhaps lighten the emphasis on naughty behavior and perhaps put the situation in a different light rather than just say 'bad pony'..I wasnt for one minute suggesting that the situation was acceptable or should be tolerated..
So thats why it matters....!..not everything is black and white..x

 

[mls]

It matters because at the end of the day the pony is an animal driven by instinct...Horse psychology isnt quite the same as human psychology...lol...yes you may decide that it is unacceptable to participate in that type of behavior but nature never imparted your/our sensibilities on the animal therefore it is behavior that has to be discouraged through teaching its unacceptability..
The bottom line is this...if this filly hasnt been taught inappropriate behavior, how is she expected to practice acceptable behavior..?...I was asking a question to the OP to perhaps lighten the emphasis on naughty behavior and perhaps put the situation in a different light rather than just say 'bad pony'..I wasnt for one minute suggesting that the situation was acceptable or should be tolerated..
So thats why it matters....!..not everything is black and white..x

The OP already said the gelding had gone in.

I agree with AB - when I am present in the turnout - they CANNOT kick, bite chase, etc If any of them start acting up I loudly say "PEOPLE". IF they don't respect me, they certainly are not going to respect my boarders.

 

[MN Tigerstripes]

I agree with AB - when I am present in the turnout - they CANNOT kick, bite chase, etc If any of them start acting up I loudly say "PEOPLE". IF they don't respect me, they certainly are not going to respect my boarders.[/QUOTE]

x2

No the horses don't have human sensibilities/instincts. But my aggressive gelding knows better than to act aggressive with people in the paddock/pasture. I am the boss, not him and I am not something to be "fought" over. That is the attitude you need to have. Not "well they're fighting over me so I better be careful and stay out of the way."

 

[Alwaysbehind]

Thank you MLS and MN.

That is what I was trying to say. You both said it better than I did.

 

[DanniS]

Its catching it at the right time and making sure they understand that its the behavious they are showing to you AND other horses that is wrong and unacceptable, personally the one that kicks, i would not feed first and allow her to dictate what happens, i would feed them at the same time, and if she does not like it, she can wait.
i have 5 hoses/ ponies and they have had the same treatment, now not one would even think about kicking, even my 2 year old stallion.
just dont be scared to make a hideous noise to scare them back ...... and once you have shouted/ smacked....dont give them cuddles and kisses after......it just cancells al the disipline!!!
Good luck tho!!!

 

[LadyGaGa]

I agree with AB - when I am present in the turnout - they CANNOT kick, bite chase, etc If any of them start acting up I loudly say "PEOPLE". IF they don't respect me, they certainly are not going to respect my boarders.[/QUOTE]

x2

No the horses don't have human sensibilities/instincts. But my aggressive gelding knows better than to act aggressive with people in the paddock/pasture. I am the boss, not him and I am not something to be "fought" over. That is the attitude you need to have. Not "well they're fighting over me so I better be careful and stay out of the way."

Why is what i am saying being misconstrued...? Not once have i said that it was tolerable, nor have i said that 'they are fighting over me so i better careful and stay out of the way'..however it would be advisable to be cautious...after all it is an animal...Please read what i am saying....I was merely asking if they may have been another reason for the behavior other than labeling the pony aggressive towards humans...That doesnt mean i find it acceptable at all...