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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well saw this guy the other day and fell in love with him. He is has black grulla color as they call it, not too familiar with it. Looking for him to be in all around western pleasure horse. What do you all think? Nothing to really judge too much conformation, it's dark in the arena. If you skip to the end of the video they do a walk around of him to judge his conformation. For $800 I'm thinking it's not a bad deal and he is registered with the AQHA. I'm going to go out and see him by the end of the week and I will get some more pictures!


 

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I've always loved the color. BTW, typically, grullo is male, grulla is female.
 

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I would avoid this one. First off, he doesn't look grullo to me, he looks just plain old black (Would be interested to know what colour the sire is). This tells me the breeder/owner doesn't know as much as they should about breeding horses. Big red flag IMO.

Secondly, who sits a kid on a weanling? Then lunges the poor baby? That's just asking for problems. This looks like a baby with a lot of "un-learning" to do before he can start learning again.

Thirdly, his conformation doesn't look that spectacular from what I can see.
 
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In the video it's kind of hard to get a good idea of what he really looks like. It'll be easier to tell once he sheds out. I don't agree with Chiilaa about the color. From what little I can see, he does appear to have "frosting" in his mane & tail which is one of the "dun factors". Once he sheds, it'll be easier to see if he has any leg barring, shadowing, webbing, etc. all which help determine the buckskin/dun/grullo breed-color. Many, if not most of the grullo's I've seen, actually do look 100% black, you have to looke VERY close to see the dun factor.

As for confirmation, it depends on what you plan on using him for. If it's going to be a trail horse, he's a possibility. BUT, he seems very stiff/short strided in the back. I also noticed that the top of his hip is very angular. If you look at him from the side, he looks like he has a triangle on top of his butt. From personal experience, this can cause a lot of problems. So be ready to spend $$ on a chiropractor so he stays sound if you plan on using him for heavy riding.
 

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I am almost 100% certain that this foal is NOT grullo. I am still interested to know what colour the sire is before I say completely certain. However, the foal is the wrong colour for a grullo, and the right colour for black. Look at this link for more pictures of grullo babies.

Dun Central Station - Grulla Colors & Markings

Another link, showing direct comparison of black foals with various dilutes. Again, the foal listed in the OP matches to the black, not the grullo.

Dun Central Station - Black, Smoky Black, Grulla Foal Color Comparison
 

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I am almost 100% certain that this foal is NOT grullo. I am still interested to know what colour the sire is before I say completely certain. However, the foal is the wrong colour for a grullo, and the right colour for black. Look at this link for more pictures of grullo babies.

Dun Central Station - Grulla Colors & Markings

Another link, showing direct comparison of black foals with various dilutes. Again, the foal listed in the OP matches to the black, not the grullo.

Dun Central Station - Black, Smoky Black, Grulla Foal Color Comparison
I agree with you that with the pictures & video it is hard to be 100% certain, and to be 100% certain you do need to know the genetics. I'm not trying to be a brat, honest! I get kind of defensive about the color breeds (I was disqualified for several Quarter Horse halter classes back in the day, because "a buckskin is not a true QH". And a very loud paint I used to show, lost classes to a QH with no paint genetics and only a 2" spot on the cheek (skin wasn't even a different color)) I've been trying to find some old pictures of horses I used to show against on the IBHA (buckskin circuit) that were registered as grullo, and by looking at them you could've sworn they were black! But I guess that was to long ago to find any digital pictures (it was back in the '90's):p But I did find some pictures on the IBHA world show website that you can see horses that look black, no frosting, dorsal, or anything that you can see from the shots. I know that IBHA/ABRA is very particular on what they consider buckskin/dun/grullo.
 

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To be frank, using any registry body as a yard stick for horse colours is just setting up for being wrong. They are so outdated and behind that it is ridiculous. Like you said, they are just all over the place with what they will accept and what they will call it. Look at the AQHA even now - they register cremellos, but not perlino or smoky cream...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Here is his pedigree! I'm thinking about taking a chance on him, she's willing to go lower with price. He does look weird in the video, but his winter coat is thicker and thinner in spots so he looks weird. Thank you all for the input, I'm going out to see him again soon to decide!

Wcr Happy Jack Quarter Horse

EDIT;; And I do NOT like where he is as I have said, not a sympathy buy, but I do feel he will turn out to be a great horse with the right training and I can give him a better environment and just let him be a horse till he's ready.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I don't think he is a grullo, IMHO. I'd like to see some pics of him all the way around.

Will do! She is sending me some pictures, and hopefully a new video in better light. It's quite a drive for me at two hours to get out there. So have been going back and forth via email, and phone. Hopefully will have some new pictures and video tomorrow!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Here's one more picture to go off of, I'm no color guru. She claims he's registered grullo with the AQHA. Is that possible? As I said I usually don't buy off of color, so this is all a plus... but again I'm not sure. I don't see the color here in the, nor have I seen his papers yet. Video and more pictures to come tomorrow. Thank you for all the responses so far. I am learning a lot from all you color gurus!

 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
He definitely doesn't look like a grullo to me, lol. I have never seen one shaded like that and he has no stripes or anything else to go by. I'd say she is trying to sell him by saying he is an unusual color, could be wrong though, I do learn something new every day, lol.
That's what I was thinking, pretty convincing till I saw this picture. Would be a lot easier if he was closer! After the pictures and video tomorrow, I think I will go out and see for myself. He doesn't look anything like a "grullo" in that picture. I've been going through other pictures on the web and reading about the color. Very interested though I'll give you all part of the last email, not trying to start anything. LOL. Just want to get to the bottom of this.

"He likes to sunbath in the summer! He is a true grulla, he is registered as one. We have been able to see his dorsal stripe for months, even under his fur. He does have the zebra striping on his shoulders as well. He is a black grulla, black grullas have a orangeish/red tint to their mane, tail, and forelock as foals. We have a friend down in Illinois that has a black grulla with the same markings as HappyJack."


In all the pictures she's sent I see no dorsal stripe, no leg barring or striping. Maybe it IS hard to see in pictures. Although, in a lot of the pictures I've seen on the forum and internet, these features are prominent...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That lady has no idea what she is talking about and is probably not too knowledgeable about horse breeding, lol. Still, if you like him regardless of his coloring, go check him out! He is a decent baby.
Definitely what I'm beginning to think. She has now switched to more along trying to sell him to me on his color which I have told her isn't an issue as long as he's a good boy. Now though I think she is trying to "prove" in sorts that he is a grullo. So we'll see may have a road trip ahead of me!
 

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Can I change my opinion? Coming from the buckskin background, I change my vote to a "no" on the black grullo. Black grullos look black, in that picture he's brown, with no visible dun factor. And lots of colors have red in their manes & tails. It's definately possible with his breeding, but I just don't see it.
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Can I just say that the footage of him being "lunged" was painful to watch? :shock: Poor baby!!

I say go look at him. He looks cute, but he looks like he may have some attitude (I didn't watch past the lunging, which took up most of the video).
 
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