The Horse Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I'm currently looking at horses and I came along this little cute paint. So his owner sent me photos and his back doesn't look so hot. A little bit about him, he is a 7yr old and has been trail riding everywhere, but has been completely off riding for about 8-9 months so totally out of shape. I know it would take a bit to get him back working, but should I buy him? Im bad at knowing what "good" conformation is so looking for some insight. These are all the photos I have of him currently. Will get better ones on Sat.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,334 Posts
It is hard to really have any opinion on conformation through these photos - they need to be re-taken, there is a post on how to take proper conformation pictures! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It is hard to really have any opinion on conformation through these photos - they need to be re-taken, there is a post on how to take proper conformation pictures! :)
I knew they weren't great. Just cant get out to see the horse until the weekend so figured id send what i have, but going to take some proper ones myself.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,681 Posts
I know he is butt high but the pictures are taken at a terrible angle to tell the truth about how much and how it affects the rest of him...
Agree, new pictures are needed taken on level ground that is a hard surface and preferably with a solid dark background so the white pattern of his coat not distract nor get hidden information shared... :|
:runninghorse2:...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49,417 Posts
The horse has a very downhill oriented body. This is not so rare. I don't see other issues. In a western saddle, one doesn't notice the downhill feel, but in an English saddle, it can be uncomfortable for the rider and make collecting the horse hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Are you planning on a PPE?
Yep, will be getting one. I hope to get some more photos for everyone. Im just worried about purchasing something with overly bad conformation issues had a lot of trouble with my previous gelding with kicking out and other things (long story short turned out to be training issues that we just couldn't over come for some reason and he was just happier as a full time walk/trot trail horse) so im just a bit wary of buying anything really coming off of a not so great experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,060 Posts
He looks downhill in the first picture, not so much in the second. I know from taking pictures of my own horses that you can make a horse look really awful by just taking a couple steps left or right, up or down. So I wouldn't read too much into even the downhill appearance until you see him in person.


Other than that, he looks pretty normal.


I will beg to differ tinyliny on the downhill feel.......I can definitely feel that riding western. All I have ever ridden is western and I hate riding a horse that feels downhill. Hurts my back too. It can be made better or worse depending on how the saddle fits. Wide saddle plus downhill horse equals murder on my spine! That's actually one of my biggest Quarter Horse pet peeves.......downhill and also small bones and feet on a LOT of them.


But I won't even say bad things about this pretty Paint because I know how I can take 10 photos and 5 will make my horse look wonky in ways she isn't in real life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
He looks downhill in the first picture, not so much in the second. I know from taking pictures of my own horses that you can make a horse look really awful by just taking a couple steps left or right, up or down. So I wouldn't read too much into even the downhill appearance until you see him in person.


Other than that, he looks pretty normal.


I will beg to differ tinyliny on the downhill feel.......I can definitely feel that riding western. All I have ever ridden is western and I hate riding a horse that feels downhill. Hurts my back too. It can be made better or worse depending on how the saddle fits. Wide saddle plus downhill horse equals murder on my spine! That's actually one of my biggest Quarter Horse pet peeves.......downhill and also small bones and feet on a LOT of them.


But I won't even say bad things about this pretty Paint because I know how I can take 10 photos and 5 will make my horse look wonky in ways she isn't in real life.
I super hope so. He seems like such a sweet horse from what the owner has told me and so so so pretty, he has one blue eye too. I am really excited to see him. I've been having a rough time since I sold my previous gelding, but he went to the perfect home so just hoping I can find mine, but I don't want to jump into anything too quickly. I am having my farrier take a look at him, as well as my trainer and then a vet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
311 Posts
Nothing that I see in these photos would stop me from inquiring further. Why has he been off work for 8-9 months? Also, are those photos recent, or were they taken before he was out of work? Are the top ones from when he was younger? I don't see any glaring abnormalities, and his back doesn't look that bad - nothing that a little proper groundwork and in-hand work can't help. Gotta build up that back support!

A note about horses at rest: Many horses will lower the back when relaxed. Even some well-worked sporthorses I've seen have a bit of a dip. Just the other day I witnessed an owner concerned that her horse was getting 'sway backed.' The instructor took her hand and pressed on the horse's sternum/abdomen. The horse lifted his back so much that it was a perfectly straight "table" with a little arch upwards! He was very capable of lifting his back and carrying his saddle and rider. He was just tired from a lesson in the heat. Horse Back Care.

Questions to ask the owner (that specifically pertain to conformation and physical attributes, not capability or suitability of the horse):
1) At what age was he started under saddle? (Horses are physically mature at age 6 - see links at bottom of post for more info.)
2) At what age did the current owner acquire him, and how long was she riding?
3) Has he ever been asked to 'collect' - or to step under and 'lift' his back? Has he been lunged or roundpenned like that?
4) Reports from vet, equine massage therapist, or hoof trimmer?
5) Can you be given access to some clear video that shows movement of the horse?

Because you're concerned about his back, the topic of 'age started under saddle' is likely to come up. Here's some reading material about the physical development of horses:
http://hoofrehab.com/ArticlesPDF/Timing and Rate of skeletal maturation in Horses.pdf
http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf
(That second article starts off heavily in the racing sector, but blossoms valiantly into wider coverage for all horses, and includes some information from the first article.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Nothing that I see in these photos would stop me from inquiring further. Why has he been off work for 8-9 months? Also, are those photos recent, or were they taken before he was out of work? Are the top ones from when he was younger? I don't see any glaring abnormalities, and his back doesn't look that bad - nothing that a little proper groundwork and in-hand work can't help. Gotta build up that back support!

A note about horses at rest: Many horses will lower the back when relaxed. Even some well-worked sporthorses I've seen have a bit of a dip. Just the other day I witnessed an owner concerned that her horse was getting 'sway backed.' The instructor took her hand and pressed on the horse's sternum/abdomen. The horse lifted his back so much that it was a perfectly straight "table" with a little arch upwards! He was very capable of lifting his back and carrying his saddle and rider. He was just tired from a lesson in the heat. Horse Back Care.

Questions to ask the owner (that specifically pertain to conformation and physical attributes, not capability or suitability of the horse):
1) At what age was he started under saddle? (Horses are physically mature at age 6 - see links at bottom of post for more info.)
2) At what age did the current owner acquire him, and how long was she riding?
3) Has he ever been asked to 'collect' - or to step under and 'lift' his back? Has he been lunged or roundpenned like that?
4) Reports from vet, equine massage therapist, or hoof trimmer?
5) Can you be given access to some clear video that shows movement of the horse?

Because you're concerned about his back, the topic of 'age started under saddle' is likely to come up. Here's some reading material about the physical development of horses:
http://hoofrehab.com/ArticlesPDF/Timing and Rate of skeletal maturation in Horses.pdf
http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf
(That second article starts off heavily in the racing sector, but blossoms valiantly into wider coverage for all horses, and includes some information from the first article.)
Thank you! I will be sure to ask those and get more info, the owner sent me a video but it was so pixelated I couldn't see anything except for horse shaped blobs. At least they are close by so I can see him potentially a few times. He isnt up for sale sale yet so he isnt in a hurry to sell currently which is nice, he is planing on starting work again with him to get him ready to sell in the next couple months. These were taken this morning (except for the one with the rider) and he has been sitting because this is his wife's horse who doesn't like to ride she is a novice and would just rather hike along side him than ride. They use to camp and trail ride all over the place. He has only ever been a trail riding horse, he has never worked in the arena and has never been schooled to move in the correct way, planning on doing lots of ground work with him first to build up that muscle. Owner told me he has had this guy since he was a baby, backed him when he was 3 and then trail rode all over the US.

Also added more photos that probably don't help (lol), but I had them. These were from when they were trail riding more.
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,681 Posts
You haven't gone to see this horse yet??
What are you waiting for??


The picture tied to the trailer...
That picture still does this animal no justice...
Get moving and get this animal seen by those you want to help evaluate...
Don't tip your hand...
This sounds like a really nice animal, one who has mileage and wet saddle blankets on him and taken care of along the way...a large difference from the first pictures shared.

He could come live at my home and join my trusted trail horses with that resume!
:runninghorse2:...
jmo...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
I think the color pattern on him makes it look worse than it is. He is built downhill, but a lot of stock bred horses can be. Are you just looking for a trail horse? If so, it shouldn't limit him. If you were going to be doing dressage I would balk, but I think he would be just fine for trails and regular riding. He's cute! Take pictures when you go to look at him!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,053 Posts
They have an ocean in Arizona? Who knew?

Nothing in the photos says to me "stay away". And I agree he is very pretty indeed. And I don't even care for paints or blue eyes!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
No, no beaches in AZ but he took him to California and rode there and a few other beaches also and then all over the mid West. I want to use him for trail and then arena like gymkhana, barrels and then Western pleasure riding in the arena. Nothing fast or overly crazy just an all round type of horse to play and enjoy. So got some better photos and tried him out today. Actually rode him too, was expecting a wild ride since he hasn't been worked in so long, but he was so sweet. Rode him around in a halter and the lunge line tide to it since the owner didn't have a headstall. But he did have a pretty sizable limp to his trot and some head bobbing. I'd for sure need to get someone to look at him since I'm not sure if that's because he is stiff or if something's pretty wrong. His feet were in pretty nice shape considering he hasn't been trimmed in a few months also. I didn't lope him because poor guy was breathing so hard after 5ish min of trotting pretty sure he would have passed out. His eyes were a little droopy too I think I don't know what that's about.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,642 Posts
No, no beaches in AZ but he took him to California and rode there and a few other beaches also and then all over the mid West. I want to use him for trail and then arena like gymkhana, barrels and then Western pleasure riding in the arena. Nothing fast or overly crazy just an all round type of horse to play and enjoy. So got some better photos and tried him out today. Actually rode him too, was expecting a wild ride since he hasn't been worked in so long, but he was so sweet. Rode him around in a halter and the lunge line tide to it since the owner didn't have a headstall. But he did have a pretty sizable limp to his trot and some head bobbing. I'd for sure need to get someone to look at him since I'm not sure if that's because he is stiff or if something's pretty wrong. His feet were in pretty nice shape considering he hasn't been trimmed in a few months also. I didn't lope him because poor guy was breathing so hard after 5ish min of trotting pretty sure he would have passed out. His eyes were a little droopy too I think I don't know what that's about.
Much better pictures here, he looks way less downhill than your original post. Though to be honest, as long as a horse checks the boxes for soundness, sanity and training, you don’t need perfect conformation for a pleasure/trail horse. Nothing in his photos screams “NO!” His front pasterns are a tad long, but not concerning.


There ARE some concerning things however:
1) did you ride the horse first, or did the owner/seller? Did they offer to ride first and you declined? IMO you should NEVER* be the first to ride a sales horse. Especially if it’s been out of work. If a seller won’t get on the horse - why? To me that is a major red flag. *unless I know the seller or horse and trust them.
2) no headstall and had to make do with a lunge line(!) as reins, paired with the feet not being done - these are basic, basic things that don’t have to cost much. You can get a head stall and bit for $20 or less. Lord. I could forgive/understand the lack of farrier care to a degree, but that along with lameness, the DIY headstall rig makes me wonder what other corners have been cut. Riding with a lunge line sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, with all that extra material.
3) Lameness. Honestly I wouldn’t bother moving forward with a horse that is head-bobbing lame. Especially with everything else above, that would be a solid nope from me. If the seller wants to investigate and let you be privy to the vet findings, great - but I would not suggest you spend your hard earned cash doing diagnostics on a horse you don’t own.

My two cents worth anyways!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,681 Posts
Attitude sounds perfect...
I see nothing that makes me run away on quick glance at the photos...
His breathing, he is a couch potato out of shape sounds accurate...
His limping, head bobbing and eyes absolutely would have me have a vet with diagnostic tools of radiograph equipment and specialty tools for in-depth eye exam a must.
The limp, you want to know why....
The eyes are so critical and so easily could be a issue...he is blue-eyed isn't he?
A vet for a PPE...friends for a second opinion if you think attitude is a issue, but you need a professional evaluation done more importantly.
Go no further till a vet check is done though...and then listen carefully to what the vet finds and shares his professional findings with you.


Although dressageit has issue with no headstall... think about how forgiving and no-attitude you were given with what you did ride in...
I do agree that no horse you try should you ever be the first astride...a owner or their representative gets astride first for your safety. If they refuse to ride at any gait or get astride, walk away...
If you pursue this animal, bring a bridle and ride with a bit and see what the outcome of this is...you never know what is hidden on any sale animal...
Get a thorough vet check, please.

:runninghorse2:...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,642 Posts
Much better pictures here, he looks way less downhill than your original post. Though to be honest, as long as a horse checks the boxes for soundness, sanity and training, you don’t need perfect conformation for a pleasure/trail horse. Nothing in his photos screams “NO!” His front pasterns are a tad long, but not concerning.


There ARE some concerning things however:
1) did you ride the horse first, or did the owner/seller? Did they offer to ride first and you declined? IMO you should NEVER* be the first to ride a sales horse. Especially if it’s been out of work. If a seller won’t get on the horse - why? To me that is a major red flag. *unless I know the seller or horse and trust them.
2) no headstall and had to make do with a lunge line(!) as reins, paired with the feet not being done - these are basic, basic things that don’t have to cost much. You can get a head stall and bit for $20 or less. Lord. I could forgive/understand the lack of farrier care to a degree, but that along with lameness, the DIY headstall rig makes me wonder what other corners have been cut. Riding with a lunge line sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, with all that extra material.
3) Lameness. Honestly I wouldn’t bother moving forward with a horse that is head-bobbing lame. Especially with everything else above, that would be a solid nope from me. If the seller wants to investigate and let you be privy to the vet findings, great - but I would not suggest you spend your hard earned cash doing diagnostics on a horse you don’t own.

My two cents worth anyways!

Sorry, I thought of a couple more things I wanted to say:

I agree with HLG that the horse’s attitude and experience sounds great, HOWEVER I will be the wet blanket here: a horse severely out of shape MAY act differently when it’s in shape. That doesn’t sound like the case here as he’s been ridden out everywhere and sounds like a solid citizen, but I have personally seen horses act super docile, lazy and calm when fat and out of shape change drastically when fitted up. It is odd to me that he was breathing so heavy after 5 minutes.

I wanted to address your question about droopy eyes: he could be lazy. He could be tired. That could just be him. A very highly unlikely explanation could also be calming drugs. Was his junk hanging down when he was halted? (to be fair: some boys frequently let their junk hang out!) Was he sweaty just standing around? Alert to your movements? Again, not trying to fear monger, I’ve unfortunately seen a lot of stuff happen in this business that has left me pretty jaded and cautious.

As HLG suggested, if you do want to move forward, you should get a PPE done... you already know the horse is lame, if he is “the one” regardless, you want to know what’s causing the lameness and what management will be necessary. Again, I personally would walk away based on the lameness alone. YMMV!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,642 Posts
Although dressageit has issue with no headstall... ..
I just want to clarify: I have an issue with the alternative used. A halter and lead rope would have been safer, but not ideal; leather breaks much more easily than nylon. A lunge line is long, I hate to think what could have happened if the horse had say spooked, spun or bucked then taken off, with all that extra length of material attached to the horse. I have witnessed someone being drug around by their foot caught in a line, I never want to see that again in my life. Additionally the horse hadn’t been ridden in a long time, and the seller also didn’t ride the horse first so OP had no idea what she was swinging her leg over. I would like to note as well that I am to questioning riding ability either, accidents can happen to the best riders in the world. But - this could have been a recipe for disaster (and luckily it wasn’t.) I am not trying to chastise OP, I’m glad the horse was well behaved and went well for her, but my stomach did a flip flop when I read it.

This sport is dangerous as it is. I will be the first to admit that I have done some extremely D-U-M-B stuff in my time, and looking back can only think that I had a very vigilant guardian angel on a number of occasions. I am also at an age where I’m realizing how much I have to lose if I were to be in a serious accident, so may naturally be more cautious and unwilling to be in situations where the risks are increased.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top