[WhattaTroublemaker]

Trouble has always flared on one foot. His next trim is tomorrow and I've noticed the flare is back. Again. It was evened out and balanced last trim but it's back! I understand flares are the wall separating, and I've done lots of research on flares, but I couldn't find why he would very flaring like this. His white line doesn't, however, look to be stretched. It's strange. What could be causing this flare? Pictures coming up!

 

[waresbear]

Waiting for pictures.

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

This is NOT a serious photo, by any means, but the phones not taking pictures properly right now so I used one that's a few weeks old that was already on my phone. The flares keep popping up on the outside of the hoof, and his front left gets one on the inside as well. These are corrected with every trim, but keep coming back. The toe is nice, the hoof is balanced according to ELPO hoof mapping every trim. Something has to be happening. The pink shows the general area the flares occur.

 

[Dreamcatcher Arabians]

Sometimes, some horses just have funky growing feet. It may be that the flares on his feet, just ARE and will need trimming and balancing every time.

 

[Smilie]

it could be the way he travels
Remember on the corformation thread, how I asked you if he traveled true, and for better front end shots.?
That might explain as to why he has those flares, due to the way he loads those feet"

'Base-Narrow This describes horses whose feet are closer together at the ground than the origin of the limbs at the chest when examining the horse from the front. This is a common fault noted in large-chested horses such as Quarter Horses. This defect causes a horse to bear weight unevenly
If you could post pictures, of his front end
, stood sqaure, itmight give aclue as to why those flares develope
Above, from the The Horsecom

 

[Light]

Hi.
I am no expert by any means and my experience is limited to my own horse and a few others.


Maybe he needs to be trimmed more frequently than he is. I know some horses that are fine waiting 6 weeks between trims, and then there is my horse, who if I let go for 6 weeks she would be flared and very unbalanced. My horse I have to have done every 4 weeks and occasionally every 3 weeks. All depends on how much hoof she grows,


I am sure someone else with more knowledge will offer their advice.

 

[loosie]

Awaiting better pics, including of the whole horse squarely from in front, as Smiley suggested. The pic you attached, can't tell, & whether outside your pink lines is actually a flare, or it's just the angle of the foot. Horses are naturally steeper on the insides generally.

 

[Hondo]

If it is an actual flare, and it looks to be from the picture, then there is a separation of the wall from P3. That cannot be corrected in a trim but must be grown down from where the separation starts down to the bottom. One inch up would mean about four months to grow down.

During that time there will be mechanical stresses that will tend to keep the flare going. The mechanical stresses can be reduced by rolling back to the inner wall and reducing the outer part of the flare down to the inner wall. This weakens the wall which lets it flex some and thereby reducing the mechanical stress even more. This is the reason Gene Ovnicek dresses flares from the top. Not for looks but to reduce mechanical stress while the flare is growing out from the top or starting point.

 

[loosie]

^1" per 4 months might be an average but depends very much on hoof health, nutrition, etc. My horses all generally take about 10 months to grow out an entire capsule.

 

[Hondo]

^1" per 4 months might be an average but depends very much on hoof health, nutrition, etc. My horses all generally take about 10 months to grow out an entire capsule.

Yeah, I was just talking round numbers as compared to wall separation being "fixed" in one or two trims.

As an added note, it seems to me that toe flares caused by long toe underrun heels wind up with the toe flare wrapping around the quarters. Seems like the under run heels shoving the sole forward also puts some pressure on the quarters.

"Seems" is the operative word here.

 

[Smilie]

Here is the link to the conformation thread on Trouble. It does show the front legs better, although not perfectly, but enough, that my money is on abnormal travel, due to front leg conformation issues, that account for that flare to keep reappearing.
If ahorse does not travel true, land that hoof flat, that foot will wear un evenly
In the case of a horse that wings, that leg rotates inwards, landing on that inside wall first, witch in turn, causes the outside wall to flare
Sometimes, hoof issues are further up that leg then at hoof level, and until I see how that hrose travels, my suspicions remain with conformation fault

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/appaloosa-stallion-trouble-728922/

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

Sorry I've been busy with life!
It's been corrected every trim now for almost a year. I believe he is base narrow, and he does wing - looking at him today. Now the question is, will this affect his soundness in the future or cause any problems with joints or feet?

 

[Smilie]

If it is an actual flare, and it looks to be from the picture, then there is a separation of the wall from P3. That cannot be corrected in a trim but must be grown down from where the separation starts down to the bottom. One inch up would mean about four months to grow down.

During that time there will be mechanical stresses that will tend to keep the flare going. The mechanical stresses can be reduced by rolling back to the inner wall and reducing the outer part of the flare down to the inner wall. This weakens the wall which lets it flex some and thereby reducing the mechanical stress even more. This is the reason Gene Ovnicek dresses flares from the top. Not for looks but to reduce mechanical stress while the flare is growing out from the top or starting point.

Agree with this, if the flare is due to simple separation, but you are not going to correct way of travel, in a horse this age, and if that flare is due to that hoof not landing flat, due to conformation, further up the limb, you are not going to grow out that flare, but just need to regularity balance that hoof, where the un even landing is causing that flare
There is great tendency, JMO, for many people hat get obsessed with hoofcare, without taking anything above that hoof into consideration, far as hoof abnormalities
I could certainly be wrong here, but reserve thinking all will be well, by growing out a new hoof capsule, until I see that horse travel, or at least better front end confo pics

 

[Smilie]

Sorry I've been busy with life!
It's been corrected every trim now for almost a year. I believe he is base narrow, and he does wing - looking at him today. Now the question is, will this affect his soundness in the future or cause any problems with joints or feet?

Depends on how hard you use him. If he wings very severely, then there is the chance that he could clip the opposite leg
Any time there is a conformation deviation, it exerts more stress, but often that point where that stress is great enough to cause a problem, is limited to intense athletic activity
He has good bone to offset that flaw, and if you keep that un even wear addressed, he should be fine for you

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

Depends on how hard you use him. If he wings very severely, then there is the chance that he could clip the opposite leg
Any time there is a conformation deviation, it exerts more stress, but often that point where that stress is great enough to cause a problem, is limited to intense athletic activity
He has good bone to offset that flaw, and if you keep that un even wear addressed, he should be fine for you

Okay, he will be a trail horse lol, maybe some very rugged trails later in life in the mountains. No big competitions.

I do also use woof boots, always have. I really had to watch for winging today. I had someone lead him toward me dead on at a walk and trot and thought I might have seen it, so it can't be too severe.

 

[loosie]

Sorry I've been busy with life!
It's been corrected every trim now for almost a year. I believe he is base narrow, and he does wing - looking at him today. Now the question is, will this affect his soundness in the future or cause any problems with joints or feet?

I agree with Smilie, if it's body issues or his way of going(maybe fixed with bodywork), he's not going to get/want everything symmetrical & re flares, maybe the best you will manage is to manage them, so they don't run away. As for soundness, the bit of a flare isn't likely to cause unsoundness IME but the body issues that are causing the imbalance might. Not anywhere near enough info to even guess if that's likely or not.

 

[Hondo]

I remember Pete Ramey saying that a bad pigeon toed horse could need trimming as often as once per week to keep the hoof balanced medial/lateral because of uneven wear.

He also suggested as a way to even out the wear that the outside wall be thinned at the bottom to decrease suface area and increase wear.

Hondo wings on his hinds and I do this with him on his trims. Helps I think. (when he's barefoot which he is at the moment)

 

[Smilie]

Yes, it helps to try and compensate for that un even wear, by never allowing too much time ,between trim touch ups, without 'helping the horse', to keep that hoof balanced, 'wearing', it where he can't, LOL!

 

[Hondo]

I remember Pete Ramey saying that a bad pigeon toed horse could need trimming as often as once per week to keep the hoof balanced medial/lateral because of uneven wear.

He also suggested as a way to even out the wear that the outside wall be thinned at the bottom to decrease surface area and increase wear.

Hondo wings on his hinds and I do this with him on his trims. Helps I think. (when he's barefoot which he is at the moment)

Whoops. I did a boo boo. I was thinking wing when talking about thinning the outside wall on a pigeon toe, but a pigeon toe flares on the inside. We have one here that I've trimmed a few times.

 

[Smilie]

Whoops. I did a boo boo. I was thinking wing when talking about thinning the outside wall on a pigeon toe, but a pigeon toe flares on the inside. We have one here that I've trimmed a few times.

Right, pigeon toed horses paddles, which is considered a lesser fault, as they can't accidentally clip the opposite leg. They wear the outside wall more, thus flare on the inside