The Horse Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so i went to see my cousin yesterday and we went and check out her 5 year old stud... turns out he has the worst biting problem ever, i went to pet his face he was ok for a while then he went to bite me... i pulled back then tried again he tried to bite again... we ran out of ideas to do, she said her husband knocks him a good one in the nostril area, i tried twisting his lip.... any ideas.. would cutting him help stop the problem???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
so i went to see my cousin yesterday and we went and check out her 5 year old stud... turns out he has the worst biting problem ever, i went to pet his face he was ok for a while then he went to bite me... i pulled back then tried again he tried to bite again... we ran out of ideas to do, she said her husband knocks him a good one in the nostril area, i tried twisting his lip.... any ideas.. would cutting him help stop the problem???
This is a training problem, not a gender problem. Gelding him might settle him down, but still..TRAINING issue here, you will more than likely still have this problem even if you have him gelded.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,901 Posts
The most effective method is to "bite" him back. This has to be done within 3-5 seconds of him attempting to or actually biting you. Grab his lip, muzzle, any piece of skin near his mouth and pinch HARD. It shouldn't take very long for him to get the picture that biting is not a fun thing to do. After that, work on respect and boundries.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,613 Posts
I agree that gender is not the issue. My first horse had a serious biting issue, which after 3 years (and him finally understanding it wasn't okay), left me with several scars on my arms, a messed up shoulderblade, and a huge respect and understanding of the horse's mouth and how to prevent biting. He probably started out innocently enough, and then as he got worse and worse, the previous owner decided to start punching him in the soft part of his nose. This to him just became another game to play, so he would shark you, and then jump back to avoid the fist. I was appalled when I got him, and the girl said to punch him in the nose. With him, because the face was now a game, I had to resort to basically ignoring him, and as soon as he started to try and bite, I'd smack him in the chest, and then continue on as if nothing had happened. It took three years before I could trust him enough to even turn to walk away. I agree that the lip or nostril pinching will work, and is a good idea to start out with, as long as he hasn't gotten to the point where he thinks that its a game to bite and dodge the fist. Otherwise, I'd smack him in the chest, just like a herd mate kicking him when he bites their butts. Biting is a serious issue, and I wouldn't take it at all lightly.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,647 Posts
I disagree with physically punishing the horse, especially biting it(yuk too!) for reasons already stated, because punishment is NOT the most effective training tool, and because it is generally done too late.

IF you're going to punish a horse, it must be AT THE TIME of the behaviour you're wanting to effect - a second or more after it is too late. The punishment needs to be strong enough to put the animal off the behaviour - if he sees it as a game, challenge or is otherwise motivated to do the behaviour, he'll become desensitised to the punishment without it effecting his behaviour. In many instances, using enough force - especially when this horse has obviously been desensitised to rough treatment already - is way too hurtful to be considered reasonable. Punishment alone is also generally a short lived 'fix', if at all. Other more effective methods of behaviour modification such as positive or negative reinforcement should be used in conjunction in order to be effective.

I personally find using principles such as that of 'clicker training' to be the best, most effective method at changing attitude & behaviour of 'rude' or 'dangerous' horses. Rather than doing something Bad, which doesn't change their attitude towards you or whatever you're doing to 'deserve' getting bit, and risks making the behaviour worse, teach him that he gets Good Stuff when he's being 'polite' & misses out when he's 'rude'. Also focusses on teaching him the *right* behaviour, rather than you just getting hung up on preventing or reacting to the 'wrong' behaviour.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
851 Posts
I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion. We get a fresh bunch of colts in every year, and I do find that studs are far more mouthy than fillies or geldings. Biting is a serious issue that needs to be dealt wih ASAP - you can't do anything with a horse without handling their head.
Maybe try a desensitizing technique. If He puts his head to you sniffing/looking for attention and he bites, rub his nose and face with both hands kinda hard and fast untill he gets sick of it and retreats. Do this every time he puts his face ito your space, and eventually he will learn it;s just not worth the aggravation. It sounds wierd, but it works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,329 Posts
First off, Why is she keeping him a Stud? Is he THAT great of a horse?

In my limited experience. my colt did get very mouthy. At about 1 year, I couldn't put up with it any more and got him gelded. Problem solved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
537 Posts
Groundwork, groundwork, groundwork! This horse obviously has no respect for human's space and needs to learn this as soon as possible before if escalates further. In-hand leading, lunging, long lining, natural horsemanship games--all of these will help him to understand boundaries.

They need to stop hurting this horse. Effective leadership cannot be won over with violence or force. It comes from trust, teaching, and firm guidelines that are followed.

I've met plenty of stallions with exceptional ground manners--this doesn't have anything to do with his being intact. Although I must ask, why is he not gelded? I think it's probably safe to say if your cousin cannot teach a horse basic ground manners, she should hire a trainer or sell her stud to someone with experience. Always do what is best for the horse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
I've dealt with my mare, my gelding, and my uncles mare's biting problems...

With my uncles mare, well, I didn't mean to hit her like I did, but it was a reaction. I was leading a friend on her and the horse tried to take a chunk out of my shoulder... I whirled around with the lead rope in hand and the metal clip part knocked her right across the face. Didn't mean for it to, but it made her quit biting right then and there, and she'd been a 'nipper' for quite some time.

My mare was basically the same... it seems that my reaction when a horse bites me is to whirl around and, well... lol. I ended up and popped her across the chest/neck with the leather reins -hard-... after two times, she quit.

My gelding was, again, about the same. I was undoing the fence to put him up and he grabbed my shoulder and -crunched-... I dropped the fence and whirled around and popped him in the mouth with my fist. Hurt me more than it hurt him, but he hasn't tried to bite me since. He's four now, and when that happened he was about six months old.


I'd rather give my horses once or two sharp 'bites' to teach them instead of having to fight with them for ages and ages because you're not being 'hard' enough when you 'bite' 'em back...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,647 Posts
First off, Why is she keeping him a Stud? Is he THAT great of a horse?
Was the first thing that came to my mind too actually. Especially as it sounds like they don't have the knowledge to handle him. And yes, I too agree that colts/stallions are often mouthier than others. Also like to play dominance games too, which this boy has inadvertently been encouraged at...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
If your horse is extremelly trusting of you and loves you, I think it would be fine to give him a slap! That's what I did to my colt, although he was gelded. If you have a horse that your still trying to win your confidence with, try some other method, like ...i have no clue. O_O lol But what worked with my colt was slapping his mouth, not hard enough to hurt him for more than a minute or two, just enough so he gets the point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Groundwork, groundwork, groundwork! This horse obviously has no respect for human's space and needs to learn this as soon as possible before if escalates further. In-hand leading, lunging, long lining, natural horsemanship games--all of these will help him to understand boundaries.

They need to stop hurting this horse. Effective leadership cannot be won over with violence or force. It comes from trust, teaching, and firm guidelines that are followed.

I've met plenty of stallions with exceptional ground manners--this doesn't have anything to do with his being intact. Although I must ask, why is he not gelded? I think it's probably safe to say if your cousin cannot teach a horse basic ground manners, she should hire a trainer or sell her stud to someone with experience. Always do what is best for the horse.



First of all i do not appreciate you assuming i cannot train a horse, and that i dont have experiece. He is a very nice horse once hes been worked with.....hence ive had two children in the past two years and that my husband was almost shipped to kuwait but had to have knee surgry instead. I dont agree with hitting the horse...but hes turned into an *** since no one has time for him. we are trying to sell him and we havent really tried to get rid of this biting problem yet, but im sure we will find something that works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
First off, Why is she keeping him a Stud? Is he THAT great of a horse?

In my limited experience. my colt did get very mouthy. At about 1 year, I couldn't put up with it any more and got him gelded. Problem solved.




And yes he is a very pretty palamion paint with good blood lines....but still not my choice i would have had him gelded already. Father in law wants to try and breed him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,668 Posts
What worked for my mouthy horses is just everytime they tried to bite me I would give them a swift knock in the shin with my foot, not enough to hurt them but enough to make them associate biting with discomfort. Has worked everytime for me.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
im gunna say its more than likely a little of both. my stally has been taught respect and boundaries and will now never even try anything out of line. it used to be bad until i started getting physical and dominant with him when he did it. there are only a few things i will not tolerate and they are biting, kicking and striking. in all these instances i become the bad guy as you simply cannot have a stallion who thinks he can get it over you. whether its a bite or a kick or a strike i will whop him good. thing is everyone gets all up in arms about hitting a horse but my reasoning is that that horse was trying to hurt me and never thought twice about it. i am never trying to hurt my horse/s but my aim is to make them uncomfortable enough that they wont try it again. it always works and it doesnt involve waving a carrot stick around asking for his trust and respect. dont get me wrong im all for trust and respect between horse and owner however, im dealing with 450kgs of raw power and im 67kg of not so raw power...you do the math

i agree that in this instance the horse should not be a stud. stallions are for people who know exactly what they are doing and can deal with a situation. stallions can be very dangerous animals and if a stallion thinks for even a moment that he has it over you, youre screwed.

if they are intent on keeping him a stallion then they need to learn how to deal with him and how to react when he does it. in most instances it only takes one episode with proper negative reinforcement for the horse to get the picture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
i totaly agree with jazzyrider yea we all want the perfect relationship with our horses and people get all moany when you give them what for (only when really necesary) but what people need to realize is that if your horse is trying to bite you your trust and relationship are not perfect, and needs to be sorted, because like jazzyrider says do the math between horses weight and ours!! my horses trust me but also RESPECT me. even though they do get what for when they cross the line!! i know im going to get slated for this post but i dont care. i think with horses its the same as in any relationship there has to be a leader which shoudl be you and there should also be respect between both leader and follower!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
I have fortunately never had an equid that bit, but my mule gelding started getting mouthy around 2 years old. He reached for my shirt and I gave him a solid pop in the hollow part of his jaw (right behind where the bit goes) with my open, flat hand. It didn't hurt him at all, but it was a sharp smack sound that resonated in the hollow of his mouth, and really surprised him. He didn't try that again that day. He tried grabbing my coat the next time and I did it again with the same result. You cold see him thinking the whole process through, from beginning to end: "So, if I reach out to grab her coat... WOW loud pop on my head!... Hmm... perhaps I won't try that again today..." I think it took him three times and he never did it again.

I sort of equate it to the electric fence--put your nose there and get zapped! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
i totaly agree with jazzyrider yea we all want the perfect relationship with our horses and people get all moany when you give them what for (only when really necesary) but what people need to realize is that if your horse is trying to bite you your trust and relationship are not perfect, and needs to be sorted, because like jazzyrider says do the math between horses weight and ours!! my horses trust me but also RESPECT me. even though they do get what for when they cross the line!! i know im going to get slated for this post but i dont care. i think with horses its the same as in any relationship there has to be a leader which shoudl be you and there should also be respect between both leader and follower!
this is a very very good point. i have heard people argue against this by saying that the horse will not trust you if you give it a whop for something. this also is untrue as horses are incredibly smart animals and when disciplined within a proper time frame they know exactly what they have done wrong. the only time you will find a horse that becomes jumpy at every hand movement after you have disciplined it will be the one who doesnt understand why he was being 'attacked'. this then is the handlers fault, not the horses.

its also the same as with children. a child with proper boundaries will love and respect its parents more than those without discipline and boundaries. im not saying to go pop your kids in the nose but you know what i mean :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
562 Posts
my horse is an ex stud, and he had a biting problem, a bad one. hed LUNGE at people and bite the hard. when i bought him, the moment i would see his mouth coming towards me, id whack him hard in the mouth with my hand or whatever i was holding, a brush, waterbottle, whatever. and if he made contact with my skin he'd get a whack within 2 seconds of him biting me. when punishing a horse you need to do it within like 3 seconds because if you wait longer then that, you might as well not punish at all because they wont associate the action with the punishment.

my horse hasnt biten me (or tried) in 7 months now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
^^^ exactly. thats where you get head shy etc horses cause they have been discplined in a time frame that the horse cannot understand
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top