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Registering a grade mare into APHA or AQHA

2126 Views 25 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  QtrBel
Hi y’all! So I need some help about registering a grade mare. Her past owners said she had papers at one point and I was wondering how you can get those back. I guess genetic/dna testing? I’m going to call the registry place but does anyone know?
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Why do you think the past owners did not have those papers to sign a transfer certificate to you? :unsure:
Anyone can make a mention, but holding the actual document of transfer is different than a assumption of truth told.
I do not agree that if you buy grade and a horse was mentioned to be registered that you should be able to suddenly go back and get papers and now have a registered horse...:rolleyes:
Sometimes papers are held or destroyed for a reason that only the owner at that time is entitled to know cause if no papers accompany a sale transaction then the price also reflects grade versus registered.

This practice is common with Thoroughbreds....how you get many OTTB in reality.
Many a horse has papers destroyed or marked "NEVER TO RACE OR BREED" to save their life...
Registered, a horse is able to be competed, bred and sometimes those options are not in the best interest of the horse.
But as just a grade animal, the horse is given a new lease on their future life...
Although that is done for Thoroughbreds, I feel the same way for any breed of animal.
If you bought grade, then it is grade you have...not to suddenly have registered stock.
And even if you were to get a copy of, without transfer certificate in hand signed by last name seen on those papers and name on the transfer documents yours...to me just not worth the effort or expense.
Most registries no longer just give you the names on those papers easily anymore either
Ride and enjoy what you have.
If you want papers maybe consider some of the sport horse registries that do color...such as pinto registry or performance registry.
🐴... jmo...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Why do you think the past owners did not have those papers to sign a transfer certificate to you? :unsure:
Anyone can make a mention, but holding the actual document of transfer is different than a assumption of truth told.
I do not agree that if you buy grade and a horse was mentioned to be registered that you should be able to suddenly go back and get papers and now have a registered horse...:rolleyes:
Sometimes papers are held or destroyed for a reason that only the owner at that time is entitled to know cause if no papers accompany a sale transaction then the price also reflects grade versus registered.

This practice is common with Thoroughbreds....how you get many OTTB in reality.
Many a horse has papers destroyed or marked "NEVER TO RACE OR BREED" to save their life...
Registered, a horse is able to be competed, bred and sometimes those options are not in the best interest of the horse.
But as just a grade animal, the horse is given a new lease on their future life...
Although that is done for Thoroughbreds, I feel the same way for any breed of animal.
If you bought grade, then it is grade you have...not to suddenly have registered stock.
And even if you were to get a copy of, without transfer certificate in hand signed by last name seen on those papers and name on the transfer documents yours...to me just not worth the effort or expense.
Most registries no longer just give you the names on those papers easily anymore either
Ride and enjoy what you have.
If you want papers maybe consider some of the sport horse registries that do color...such as pinto registry or performance registry.
🐴... jmo...
Honestly I don’t really know, I guess the owner before her had the papers and lost them. One of my friends had a grade horse and she was able to dna test her and get her papers. She said you have to contact the studs owner or something along those lines. Thank you for your help 🙂
 

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If she is registered there should be DNA on file. They can do a match if that is the case. If she does not then you have to DNA match to her parents and you have to know their registered names. There is a process and it isn't cheap if she was not registered as a foal. Call the registry and ask what you will need to do. It also helps if you know her registered name.
 

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Add information to what QtrBel shared...
Answering your last response #3....
You need those important signatures and a willing person to sign off, providing others have not registered in the meantime.
For exactly the reasons you want to do this, registries are tightening their rules of changing names on documents..
I was on the AQHA website... try these for guidance

I think you are going to need more than what you have honestly.
Have you done the DNA testing yourself on your horse?
From AQHA website,
"Current fees for genetic testing are $50 and $105 for nonmembers. Genetic testing only needs to be performed once in a horse's lifetime. A horse cannot be parentage verified if his sire and dam are not both DNA typed. "

Think you need to do some research about the breeding of before you can go further on a mention of...
Anyone can make mention, the proof is in having the certificate in hand and the certificate match the animal in pictures taken.
DNA testing has helped a lot to ease the process, but think you still need that signed transfer to go forth.
Good luck.
🐴...
 

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The genetic testing AQHA does is for genetic diseases, not for parentage.
If you are going to DNA for parentage, you have to have some stallions in mind, and request testing on each of those. If it turns out not to be one of those, you start over again. You are literally looking for a needle in a haystack, it's the same with mares.
Just because someone says "she used to have papers", does not make it so.

I'm afraid you have a grade horse that will always be a grade horse.
 

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If you are going to DNA for parentage, you have to have some stallions in mind, and request testing on each of those. If it turns out not to be one of those, you start over again. You are literally looking for a needle in a haystack, it's the same with mares.
@Zimalia22 , just for my own knowledge: Does AQHA not keep DNA of registered stock on file? For Morgans, you could pull hair from an unknown horse and send in to American Morgan Horse Association, who can look for a match to either the individual or their (registered) parents, even if you have no guesses who the parents could be, because registered horses all have their DNA kept on file. Obviously Morgans are a tiny breed registry compared to QHs, but I would think that would give AQHA even more incentive to keep DNA on file, to encourage more people to pay the fees to register a horse with DNA matches. I'm sure that would be a substantial money maker for them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If she is registered there should be DNA on file. They can do a match if that is the case. If she does not then you have to DNA match to her parents and you have to know their registered names. There is a process and it isn't cheap if she was not registered as a foal. Call the registry and ask what you will need to do. It also helps if you know her registered name.
Okay, thank you for your help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The genetic testing AQHA does is for genetic diseases, not for parentage.
If you are going to DNA for parentage, you have to have some stallions in mind, and request testing on each of those. If it turns out not to be one of those, you start over again. You are literally looking for a needle in a haystack, it's the same with mares.
Just because someone says "she used to have papers", does not make it so.

I'm afraid you have a grade horse that will always be a grade horse.
Alright, I will ask my vet about testing.
 

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@egrogan Unless the rules on it have changed, thats how it was a few years ago.

If anyone wants to give them a call, find out if it's still that way, it would be interesting to find out.

But that's how it used to be not so long ago.
 
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If you do not know the parents you cannot DNA match/verify parents. Most that are trying after the fact at least know the mare. You also have to give them the names of stallions you think are possible. If you don't know either they will not be able to match. They can If the horse has DNA on file match what you send to what they have. You do not have to know the name but knowing the name makes it easier.
 
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Alright, I will ask my vet about testing.
No need to ask a vet. You call the registry to find out what you need to fill out. Download. Pay your fee. Pull hair and ship the form and hair (with bulb attached as that is where the DNA that is used is located) to the lab on the form and Mail.
Some registries give you a choice of labs.
UC Davis is used for AQHA and APHA. APHA also uses Etalon for color testing. I assume they use for the rest as well but you would need to ask.
 

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© 2022 AMERICAN QUARTER HORSE ASSOCIATION
REG119. REPLACEMENT CERTIFICATE. A replacement
certificate is a new registration certificate issued when the original
certificate is in existence but has been defaced. AQHA must be pro-
vided with the original certificate before a replacement certificate can
be issued.
REG120. DUPLICATE CERTIFICATE. A duplicate registration
certificate is issued when the original has been lost or destroyed and
sufficient proof of loss and proper identification of the horse has been
submitted to AQHA.
REG120.1 AQHA may issue a duplicate registration certificate after
the current record owner or authorized agent files the properly com-
pleted form and stating the circumstances under which the original
registration certificate was lost or destroyed, and pays the required
fee. Such form is to be accompanied by four full-view current photo-
graphs of the horse, showing both sides, front and rear views.
REG120.2 If the owner is not AQHA’s record owner, he addition-
ally shall provide AQHA a statement from the last record owner to
obtain the duplicate registration certificate. Such statement shall
describe the circumstances of the transfer and the identity of the
person to whom the registration certificate was delivered.
REG120.3 If the certificate was lost by a trainer or racing official
at the track, statements from such other persons should accom-
pany the record owner’s request for a duplicate certificate.
REG120.4 If the application for the duplicate certificate contains
a discrepancy to question the identity of the horse, AQHA may
require inspection.
REG120.5 To issue a duplicate certificate when the record owner

72 © 2022 AMERICAN QUARTER HORSE ASSOCIATION
or authorized agent cannot be located to complete a statement,
after all reasonable efforts by the current owner and then by AQHA,
the following items are required:
REG120.5.1 properly completed and signed transfer reports or
acceptable bills of sale reflecting each ownership change begin-
ning with the record owner.
REG120.5.2 statement signed by each party who had the origi-
nal certificate in his or her possession after the record owner;
REG120.5.3 a signed statement from current owner giving
details of all attempts to contact record owner.
REG120.5.4 four current full-view photographs of the horse,
both sides, front and rear views.
REG120.6 In regard to involuntary transfers, including, but not
limited to, court judgment, stableman’s lien or security interest fore-
closure, when a previous owner is unavailable to verify the where-
abouts of the original registration certificate or refuses to adhere to
a court judgment by delivering the original registration certificate for
transfer, at AQHA’s discretion, and in the interest of equity, require-
ment of statement of the record owner may be waived and the cur-
rent owner deemed eligible for a duplicate certificate.
 

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REG104. OBTAINING A NUMBERED CERTIFICATE.
Except as otherwise limited on proper compliance with the rules and
regulations of AQHA, a stallion, mare, gelding or spayed mare may be
registered in the Numbered section of the Stud Book that:
REG104.1 has a Numbered American Quarter Horse sire and a
Numbered American Quarter Horse dam. Such horse, when regis-
tered, shall receive a registration number. For horses foaled on or
after January 1, 1992, any undesirable trait or condition commonly
considered a ‘Genetic Defect’ as listed in REG109 shall be recorded
on the registration certificate.
REG104.2 previously has been listed in the Appendix, and the
following conditions are met: (1) the horse has qualified for Register
of Merit in AQHA-approved events not restricted in any way (youth
and/or amateur Register of Merit do not qualify a horse for
advancement); (2) AQHA has received a signed statement from a
licensed veterinarian certifying that the horse does not have a par-
rot mouth per REG109.1 and (3) AQHA has received photographs of
the horse clearly showing all white markings and (4) if the horse is
a stallion, AQHA has received a signed statement from a licensed
veterinarian certifying it is not cryptorchid per REG 109.2. Horses
having parrot mouth, cryptorchidism, HYPP or excessive white
markings are not eligible for advancement. When a horse is
advanced, it is necessary to surrender the registration certificate
before a Numbered certificate can be issued.
REG104.3 was previously listed in the Appendix and attains a
registration number, any offspring listed in the Appendix shall on
that date become eligible for advancement to the Numbered regis-
try. Advancement of such offspring to the Numbered registry shall
be on request from the record owner and accompanied by the
Appendix registration certificate, or
REG104.4 was foaled in an international country having a Quar-
ter Horse Association recognized by AQHA that operates its own
stud book; was issued a registration certificate by such interna-
tional association; and which traces to a minimum of 93.75 percent
(15/16) lineage to horses issued Numbered registration certificates

58 © 2022 AMERICAN QUARTER HORSE ASSOCIATION
by AQHA. To receive such Numbered certificate from AQHA, the
horse’s owner must make application through the recognized inter-
national association in the country he resides to supply AQHA all
required proof of breeding and identification with appropriate fee.
If the unregistered lineage traces to an Appendix/Appendix or
Appendix/Thoroughbred cross, it is ineligible for registratio
 

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People think getting a horse registered AQHA is easy, and it is IF you have followed the rules, know the horse's sire and dam, the proper breeders report filed, etc.
But if you just get a horse, and think you can get it registered AQHA, not so much.

I will continue looking, but so far, I have not found any reference to DNA matching on a grade horse.
 

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They will run a match on anything you send in with the proper form and $$$ attached as long as you have names to go with. There is no guarantee they find anything and they cannot parent verify without names of registered horses to match against. If you don't have names of those pairs you think are the parent then they can't help you. If your horse is already on file they can match horse to horse. BTDT.
 

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I would think it should be difficult. When someone sells a papered horse as a grade horse, they sometimes do so for a reason. Maybe they don’t want their name attached to said horse, in which case ripping up papers and selling as grade has been a fair solution. Now, with the use of dna, I can see where it would be more difficult to cut ties to a horse, and I’m not sure that is fair. You take the cut for the horse being grade, which seems enough punishment, and you make it less likely for an undesirable trait to be continued on.
 

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There is still an approval process and only in extreme cases will they transfer without signature of prior owners. I've been through that as well. Took 2 years start to finish on one mare.
 
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