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Discussion Starter #21
Vet quickly confirmed lame in right fore. Tech who was leading agreed as did the actual owner who was also present.

Vet could not get any reaction at all from the hoof testers. There was no visible sign of the original injury.

Raised is leg way up feeling of the joints and bony column. All seemed ok.

X-ray revealed what the vet called a "gas line" (i think that's what he said) which looked to be between the sole and solar corium. The gas line was just a dark streak indicating a void. It seemed to extend from near the site of the original injury to the back of the heel.

On closer examination, there was a small flap found on the back of one bulb that was oozing black smelly stuff. The vet patiently explained the concept of the path of least resistance. I was of course fully aware of that but a vet has to assume the lowest denominator and it is important that he do so.

Because the vet could not identify anything in the bony column except a small bit of arthritis in the pedal joint, and since the hoof tester produced no complaint, the vet recommenced a nerve to determine yes or no for certain that the problem was isolated to the hoof itself. And I of course emphatically agreed.

No one could see the slightest limp in Rimmey after the nerve block.

So as I had suspected prior to the appointment, it appears there may still be something in his foot that is not allowing the infection to clear up.

The plan.

I will do foot soakings to soften up his frog/sole area and very very carefully and gently scrape around the original site of the injury with an abscess loop knife to hopefully identify the actual puncture site. If found, eventually, I plan to even more carefully and gradually probe to possibly open to drainage.

I will also be attempting to keep the drainage at the heel open.

I'll also pony him as much as possible without increasing his discomfort which is actually minimal at this time it seems. I'll boot his fores for that. My theory is that the more foot falls and expanding foot that happens will increase the flow of infection out of his foot. Increased circulation seems to be good for any injury.

I don't plan on accomplishing anything by next week. If Rimmey is sound in a year I'll be happy.

Ending on a good note, the infection did not show any sign of compromising either P3 or the navicular bone or area. Now that made me very happy and gave me hope.
 

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I am so glad that there is now a plan in place ^>^ Good ol' Rimmey getting much needed care he needs. Hopefully you managed to find the source sooner than later and he has a full recovery. Would love if you kept this updated! Good luck :)
 

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Ending on a good note, the infection did not show any sign of compromising either P3 or the navicular bone or area. Now that made me very happy and gave me hope.[/QUOTE]

^^^This is fantastic good news:)

Also great news that there is a healing plan in place per the vet.

I'm glad Rimmey's owner was there to witness all this --- hopefully this is a lesson learned.

Sounds like the path to healing is going to be full of intensive labor for you -- I hope after all this, the owner will turn Rimmey's ownership over to you:)

BTW, Roman is quite the handsome fella! My kinda dog --- he likes to ride the 4-wheeler!:smile:
 

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im striking put on names and faces
That's Meka, my pretty girl Great Pyrenees. She LOVES an ATV. Roman is my Border/Kelpie. He would rather race an ATV than ride on it:)
I am striking out on matching names to faces all the way around:beatup:
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Got some more info.

As planned, I soaked Rimmey's foot overnite in order to be able to gently scrape and probe in hopes of locating the original puncture site.

Except for the very rearward portion attached to the heel bulb, the entire frog was disconnected from the hoof!!

The pure water used for soaking virtually reeked with thrush smell.

I'm hoping that the black ooze out the back of his heel was coming from the hard sealed off old frog that was actually disconnected but was dried so hard that it sealed off what was above it.

I nippered off the front 1/3 to make sure there was air available. The area will be hosed out with a jet nozzle multiple time per day. If it gets too dirty I may boot him but i'll need to keep him in the 1/3 acre as there is water in the 60 acre field and wanting the foot to stay dry as much as possible.

I got a pretty good picture and will be sending it to the vet for further consideration and or recommendations.

When the rest of the flap that I left is pulled up there is a frog shaped structure below but it is light colored. I've had frogs fall off or shed but the frog underneath was always normal colored. Maybe the infection caused the light color. I'll be watching it multiple times per day.



IMGA0162.JPG
 

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I'm no expert but I've seen that colored frog before, basically you're very deep. I believe that is normal for very deep underneath the frog. This isn't you're average shed. Let us know what the vet says.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Right. Not a normal shed at all as the previous I've seen have had a more or less fully developed frog underneath. I'm thinking it's a shed from long term damage and infection. I didn't have enough hands to get a picture but underneath the portion of frog shown is a small frog looking structure. I just couldn't hold his foot, raise the flap, and take a picture too.

I am cautiously optimistic, a little at least, as the lameness he was showing is no longer visible. Plan today is to boot him on the front and trot him with my little motorcycle to see how he looks at a trot.

If he looks solid sound I will begin ponying him while booted in order to get that foot flexing and moving a little more blood through the foot. Since it is appearing the corium was not penetrated I am hoping for an eventual full recovery.
 

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No worries about the light colored frog. It is just the first layer over the corium, but usually is still not sensitive and it will quickly grow more and regain a normal color. I've seen this happen even with just regular thrush and a deep frog shed.

I'm just seeing this thread now so I was holding my breath reading through and learning that it seems optimistic. Seems like now that you can attack the infection everything should clear and heal up fine. So glad to hear it! I hope you will become Rimmey's owner soon. He needs to be part of your family.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Glad to read those encouraging words! Behind the light tan tip where I trimmed the frog, the tan part widens out and actually has a small sulcus. Looks like a miniature frog which I guess it is.

I really really like Dragon and Dolly, especially Dragon, but they both seemed bent on putting Roman out of commission. Dragon is a bit flighty which I could deal with, but he could not be left alone without trying to jump barbed wire and cutting himself up.

Plus Rimmey and Hondo are almost soul mates, or soul brothers, and Hondo detests both Dragon and Dolly. Plus I do like Rimmey also. He has had some abuse in his past but will respond well to kind care.

When Rimmey heals, I'll not likely make many trips if any on Hondo without Rimmey along also.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I'm not seeing any lame/limp at a fast walk at all. A little bit of intermittent at the trot without boots in soft sand/dirt. That seems understandable as there is not much protecting the sensitive corium in places.

But all is gone at the fast walk. I am now very optimistic.

Pointed out to Tom today that if Rimmey were mine I'd feel obligated to increase my pasture fee which would equal around the income from one brood cow. And that Rimmey is 20 and too old for serious use. And that no one wants to ride him anyhow because of his intermittent behavior problems under saddle. He said he'd ask Mary. Didn't know if she'd want to let him go. And I pointed out he was not worth more than a years pasture rent on the open market. And that he may well never be sound again. Just don't know.

I'm working it the best I can.

I did soak him again in pure water yesterday. The front stretched thin from was loose and I pulled it off. A spot about half the size of an eraser popped up some blood.

I've now decided to not soak him but clean him dry the best I can and soak him with Vetericyn, which I did yesterday and again today. Talked to my favorite vet, whose x-ray was down, and he approved the protocol.

Here's a picture today after soaking the area with Vetericyn with the thin front frog missing. The back of the frog is loose and the stuff runs all around under it but I don't want to take it off until he decides to let go of it.

IMGA0164.JPG
 

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My goodness, that poor fella and I know that looks good compared to what used to be lurking.

I hope Rimmey ends up in your pasture:)
 

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Discussion Starter #33
So which leg is Rimmey lame on now? What looked like a stumble was a patch of wet and soft sand.


 

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Yowza, that was nerve wracking..

He doesn't look lame in any of his gaits.

I would hazard a guess and say he caught the healing hoof just right on something, it caused pain and down he went. Or he isn't completely recovered and lost his balance in the wet.

Are you keeping the hoof covered for turnout? I couldn't tell.

A video of him walking toward you and past you might be better to really see if he is off somehow:)
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I think you may be right about the ouch causing the stumble although there are some real soft areas around there.

No protection for turnout as he is on turnout 24/7. The entire 60 acres is mostly dirt and sand with a few rocks here and there. If I pony him out of the field I will most definitely boot him.

I have a call in to the owner about having the vet check it out now that it's open and an x-ray is not needed to see if there should be some epoxy protection of any areas. But the way he's acting, I'm hoping he's on his way. That said, I figure 6 months minimum.

Rimmey is dominant over Hondo and has been acting rather submissive (for him). But now I noticed he's getting back into being a little pushy when sharig pellets and also noticed his efforts toward "herding" Hondo were met with a pair of feigned double barrels, just to let Rimmey know there was a limit.

So just his overall behaviour, alertness, and composure has really came back the last couple of days. I missed it with the camera but he threw a couple of pretty good bucks while I was on Hondo with the camera. There was no reason. They had just had their afternoon tea and crumpets. I questioned in the past if horses really did stuff like that just for fun but I'm now beginning to think so.

Four years ago I rarely saw horses playing but now see it often. It was windy and there is a front on the way so they were feeling spry. Right after the video they both dropped there heads and went about peacefully grazing.
 

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I agree he probably hit the sore part of his hoof on something hard and then stumbled trying to get weight off it.
It's great he's feeling so much better. I'd guess more like 6-8 weeks before he is very sound. Long term rehab takes forever but short term stabilizing and healing from infection can be much faster.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Here's a update on Rimmey. It's been around seven weeks since his foot was soaked and the old frog detached in front. It is all gone now and has been for a while. The tiny miniature frog now in place is about twice the size when first exposed seven weeks ago. Growing very very slowly. There is a small circle about 1" in front of the frog that I suspect is the site of the original puncture. There are two pieces of grass pointing to it in curved fashion.

In the past I was sort of opening that spot and treating with Vetericyn but the vet said it might be granulation tissue trying to form and perhaps I should leave it alone since Rimmey was no longer lame.

Rimmey is very solid in all gaits now. I have decided the big stumble in the video was a gopher or ground squirrel hole which there are a lot of in that sandy area. Oh well, we'll never know. But I see him move to a gallop at some point on most days.

I am a little worried that the frog cornium may have been permanently damaged in that area and that the frog will never grow completely out. Time will tell.

Meanwhile he is as said totally sound. I am leaving his heels and hoof wall a little long on purpose for added protection. If his frog does not grow back, I'm hoping the sole in that area will overlap for protection.

Since clearing up the infection and worming for round and tape worms which were present in his float, Rimmey's ribs have disappeared although they can be readily felt and his pointy hip bones have taken on their normal rounded appearance.

Don't know if it was the worms or the infection, probably a little of both.

IMGA0183.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Here's a recent side shot of him. Filled in nicely.

Rimmey is very mutton withered with measurements almost exactly the same as Hondo.

Apparently someone at some point tried a saddle on him that was way too wide. The white hair on his wither is not golden mane, it's white hair like the spots on each side.

IMGA0190.JPG
 

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