When I started to read this post I was expecting to see that you were looking for a western saddle. In that case, I would have said as long as the skirts didn't interfere with her movement or irritate her by bumping her hip every time she took a step. you'd be ok. Since you're looking at dressage saddles, then my answer is especially NO. They are so light and so minimally restricting that unless you find one that is really strangely built, she probably barely knows it's there, as long as it fits her withers, shoulders, back. Find one that's a comfortable fit for both of you. Riding in a saddle that's too small will set you back in your progress because you'll be so uncomfortable you won't be able to think of anything else.
Saddle Fitting the Short-Backed Horse
I've set a saddle fitting appointment for three weeks from now and I will be honest - I am dreading starting the saddle searching journey again. Last August, I posted the thread It's finally here! Trilogy dressage saddle fit to determine if the Trilogy saddle would fit my needs (and Minnie's back) well enough for the time being. It's served it's purpose of getting my confidence back and putting a lot of training on Minnie. Now, my trainer has suggested that I look for a saddle to take Minnie and I to the next level, with a bit better fit than the Trilogy provides. I've set up an appointment with the local independent fitter, and my trainer personally uses a Custom Saddlery fitter than I can also schedule with as well.
My biggest concern is finding a saddle that is a better length for Minnie's back while also having a seat that will accommodate what I need. Minnie has a short back, which just doesn't pair well with an 18" seat. This is a picture from this summer of where Minnie's 18th rib is. I'd say the current saddle goes about 1.5-2 inches further. My trainer is curious if the length of the saddle is causing Minnie to resist bringing her back up and collecting. The flocking does need replaced in the shoulders as it has two hard patches, so that may be contributing as well.
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Is it going to be possible to find a saddle that fits both her and I, or should I go in with the expectation of being told that I need to ride a smaller seated saddle to fit the horse? I truly don't know if I could comfortably ride in a smaller saddle at my current size. I have a long thigh and I'm currently carrying extra weight that I haven't been able to shed since quarantine.
I also read this opinion piece on short paneled saddles and I'm not necessarily sure if a short paneled saddle can be my answer, if the theory written in the piece is true (which it makes sense in my mind). How hard and fast is the 18th rib rule? The Trilogy fits Minnie pretty much everywhere else IMO, so is length the hill to die on?
My biggest concern is finding a saddle that is a better length for Minnie's back while also having a seat that will accommodate what I need. Minnie has a short back, which just doesn't pair well with an 18" seat. This is a picture from this summer of where Minnie's 18th rib is. I'd say the current saddle goes about 1.5-2 inches further. My trainer is curious if the length of the saddle is causing Minnie to resist bringing her back up and collecting. The flocking does need replaced in the shoulders as it has two hard patches, so that may be contributing as well.
Is it going to be possible to find a saddle that fits both her and I, or should I go in with the expectation of being told that I need to ride a smaller seated saddle to fit the horse? I truly don't know if I could comfortably ride in a smaller saddle at my current size. I have a long thigh and I'm currently carrying extra weight that I haven't been able to shed since quarantine.
I also read this opinion piece on short paneled saddles and I'm not necessarily sure if a short paneled saddle can be my answer, if the theory written in the piece is true (which it makes sense in my mind). How hard and fast is the 18th rib rule? The Trilogy fits Minnie pretty much everywhere else IMO, so is length the hill to die on?
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I'm not seeing the issue...
The tree is not at the very ends of that stuffed underpanel...
Find the end of the tree in that saddle, then determine if you have a reason to freak or not...
This to me is far more important a way to find a saddle than the standard we are all preached at...
schleese.com
Interesting thoughts, but this company has backed their thought into a theory that works....
🐴...
The tree is not at the very ends of that stuffed underpanel...
Find the end of the tree in that saddle, then determine if you have a reason to freak or not...
This to me is far more important a way to find a saddle than the standard we are all preached at...
Saddle Fit and the Heavier Rider – Schleese
schleese.com
🐴...
From the perspective of a western rider who used Australian stock saddles for a while...
With western saddles, "Don't Poke" is a major rule. True of English as well, but the cantle is closer to the end of the saddle with English saddles so it has more impact. However, I had two English saddles. One was a jump saddle with a "banana" shape and the other was an AP saddle with a flatter rear end. Although the AP saddle spread weight over a larger area, Mia preferred the jump saddle. Mia was sweet (spooky, but sweet) and gave a good effort in either saddle, but acted uncomfortable with the flatter rear end.
My Australian saddle had more area like the AP saddle, but curved more like the banana jump saddle. Mia was totally fine with it.
When I had a western saddle made for Mia, the guy (a former HF moderator) recommended that if in doubt, have more "rock". In western saddles, "rock" is like a rocking chair - how much curve is on the bottom. He argued that too much rock would reduce weight bearing area, but if it was even a little too flat it would poke, which is vastly worse. He also had the skirts adjusted so they would lift at the back. It worked.
Don't know if any dressage saddles come with a more banana shaped bottom or if it is possible to adjust the flocking to prevent any poking at the rear. This article discusses why dressage saddles often have gussets (and flatter bottoms) but I think they are a problem for a short-backed horse.
dressagetoday.com
With western saddles, "Don't Poke" is a major rule. True of English as well, but the cantle is closer to the end of the saddle with English saddles so it has more impact. However, I had two English saddles. One was a jump saddle with a "banana" shape and the other was an AP saddle with a flatter rear end. Although the AP saddle spread weight over a larger area, Mia preferred the jump saddle. Mia was sweet (spooky, but sweet) and gave a good effort in either saddle, but acted uncomfortable with the flatter rear end.
My Australian saddle had more area like the AP saddle, but curved more like the banana jump saddle. Mia was totally fine with it.
When I had a western saddle made for Mia, the guy (a former HF moderator) recommended that if in doubt, have more "rock". In western saddles, "rock" is like a rocking chair - how much curve is on the bottom. He argued that too much rock would reduce weight bearing area, but if it was even a little too flat it would poke, which is vastly worse. He also had the skirts adjusted so they would lift at the back. It worked.
Don't know if any dressage saddles come with a more banana shaped bottom or if it is possible to adjust the flocking to prevent any poking at the rear. This article discusses why dressage saddles often have gussets (and flatter bottoms) but I think they are a problem for a short-backed horse.
Why Do Dressage Saddles Have Gussets?
Master Saddler Kay Hastilow explains why dressage saddles have gussets.
dressagetoday.com
Unfortunately, english saddles can be less forgiving with fitting issues than western because there is less weight bearing area.
I would suspect that rather than weight bearing too far back bothering the horse, the issue would come from how that length affected the saddle fit. It looks like Minnie slopes up toward the hindquarters, and if the saddle was longer and did not have a panel shape to accommodate for that, it could change the balance of the saddle, creating pressure points.
It would be helpful to see a photo of the actual saddle and how it fits.
When I tried saddles with more curved panels at the rear, they created more problems because that banana shape was not only at the rear, it was farther forward where the horse's back was flat also. So I ended up with a saddle that rocked and had decreased weight bearing area.
This is the Passier model that had that panel shape:
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It could be that your best bet is to look for a saddle that is designed for shorter backed horses, but in your seat size. If you measure the length, those saddles will tend to be shorter than other saddles. My L & R saddles have been quite short, even in 17.5" length. A slightly flatter seat and longer panel would help with fitting into a shorter saddle also. I need a larger seat size with a very deep seated dressage saddle.
I would suspect that rather than weight bearing too far back bothering the horse, the issue would come from how that length affected the saddle fit. It looks like Minnie slopes up toward the hindquarters, and if the saddle was longer and did not have a panel shape to accommodate for that, it could change the balance of the saddle, creating pressure points.
It would be helpful to see a photo of the actual saddle and how it fits.
When I tried saddles with more curved panels at the rear, they created more problems because that banana shape was not only at the rear, it was farther forward where the horse's back was flat also. So I ended up with a saddle that rocked and had decreased weight bearing area.
This is the Passier model that had that panel shape:
It could be that your best bet is to look for a saddle that is designed for shorter backed horses, but in your seat size. If you measure the length, those saddles will tend to be shorter than other saddles. My L & R saddles have been quite short, even in 17.5" length. A slightly flatter seat and longer panel would help with fitting into a shorter saddle also. I need a larger seat size with a very deep seated dressage saddle.
I've shared some recent fit pictures below - still a couple of months old, taken on the same day as the picture included on the original post. I'm learning a lot from you all and I truly, really appreciate it. I've bought, tried, and sold so many saddles - I'm worried the fitter will suggest something, I'll drop the $$$, and be right back where I am again.
Minnie's topline is improving massively. If you compare pictures of her from my journal to this one, she looks much different that the big-barreled, non-existent topline horse I brought home. The biggest hurdles I see (as an uneducated eye) is that she has whoppingly large shoulders (currently in a wide, I could see her ending up in an extra wide as she muscles further) that connect to a short, curvey back.
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And the best pictures of the saddle I have right now... The panel shape contours to her back really well, IMO, but with her bringing her back up to collect it may not be accomdating that change in shape well enough.
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Minnie's topline is improving massively. If you compare pictures of her from my journal to this one, she looks much different that the big-barreled, non-existent topline horse I brought home. The biggest hurdles I see (as an uneducated eye) is that she has whoppingly large shoulders (currently in a wide, I could see her ending up in an extra wide as she muscles further) that connect to a short, curvey back.
And the best pictures of the saddle I have right now... The panel shape contours to her back really well, IMO, but with her bringing her back up to collect it may not be accomdating that change in shape well enough.
Your pictures are deceiving...
The saddle actually appears to me to be sitting in the wither pocket, not above it or forward of it...
I do have to wonder if the saddle needs tapped forward a bit and then go from that point..
My eyes are seeing....no matter what I do or come back and look again, it looks like it shifted to far back and that is the start of a fit issue.
How or if that can be addressed, if it needs to be addressed....and yes I have looked with glasses on and off and no matter what...keep coming back to it appears to be to far behind to me.
If it is to far back then it also means you do not have issue of her "short" back and staying away from her 18th rib...
🐴....
The saddle actually appears to me to be sitting in the wither pocket, not above it or forward of it...
I do have to wonder if the saddle needs tapped forward a bit and then go from that point..
My eyes are seeing....no matter what I do or come back and look again, it looks like it shifted to far back and that is the start of a fit issue.
How or if that can be addressed, if it needs to be addressed....and yes I have looked with glasses on and off and no matter what...keep coming back to it appears to be to far behind to me.
If it is to far back then it also means you do not have issue of her "short" back and staying away from her 18th rib...
🐴....
I'll have to take updated pictures with her development, but when I saddle her that is the sweet spot where it's at. I've also chalked where her scapula moves to ensure the saddle isn't too far forward, and I'm not sure if it could move forward at all...Your pictures are deceiving...
The saddle actually appears to me to be sitting in the wither pocket, not above it or forward of it...
I do have to wonder if the saddle needs tapped forward a bit and then go from that point..
My eyes are seeing....no matter what I do or come back and look again, it looks like it shifted to far back and that is the start of a fit issue.
How or if that can be addressed, if it needs to be addressed....and yes I have looked with glasses on and off and no matter what...keep coming back to it appears to be to far behind to me.
If it is to far back then it also means you do not have issue of her "short" back and staying away from her 18th rib...
🐴....
Here are some different pictures to highlight her shoulder:
I have to take pictures for the fitter tonight, so hopefully I can bring those back here too. Again, always appreciate your input HLG and everyone else.
Attachments
Remember the Pirates of the Caribbean films? It was the 6 inch thick, 3 feet square volume of 'rules' they lived by. And bound with locks, so only the chosen few had access.
I thought it was quite an apt comparison to saddle fitting!
Tomorrow is our saddle fitting appointment, and I'm a bit anxious for it! My current budget is limiting, and with most of the fitters consignment saddles being above $2,000 we will see what she has for me. At least I can get the hard flocking fixed in my current saddle and hopefully get some suggestions on what saddles could work for Minnie and myself in the future. The local tack shop has a lot of good inventory right now in their consignment section, and I've found a couple saddles in online consignment shops that I have my eye on too. We will see..
I did end up taking more updated pictures of Minnie's back last week for the fitter to evaluate prior to our appointment:
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I did end up taking more updated pictures of Minnie's back last week for the fitter to evaluate prior to our appointment:
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