[malerkenleigh]

I’m trying to figure out what is wrong with a pony. He isn’t mine, he belongs to a family friend. He was pretty underweight when they got him. At first, after getting him to a healthy weight, he was a good little pony. He was sold as a kids pony. But now he is bucking and is very hard to catch. I’m working with him in a round pen right now and if I walk up to him he is extremely jumpy and literally shivers if I put my hand out. He is very protective of his right side. If I put my hand too high he freaks out. Not like a normal spook but eyes wide and shivering. Hates being patted. Once the halter is on he seems like he’s shut down. He seems zoned out. I think who ever broke him just threw a saddle on and rode him. Skipped everything else.
I’m not saying he was abused but it seems pretty likely, to me. What do y’all think?

 

[wvfarrier]

Its possible but those are also signs of a horse who has never been gentled. My advice would be to start him over from scratch so he has a good foundation to fall back on. I have rehabbed several abused horses, they are usually either flighty or aggressive

 

[QtrBel]

I’m not saying he was abused but it seems pretty likely, to me. What do y’all think?

Between this and your title it sounds like that is exactly what you're saying. To answer your question - no. Rough start perhaps. Decided he could get away with bucking and running off. Nervous about what you're doing. Drop your assumptions and go back to the beginning.

 

[ClearDonkey]

The only way to know if a horse has been beaten is if you witnessed it first-hand. Horses are incredibly forgiving, stoic creatures. I've watched people be absolute monsters to their horses, and the resultant horses never seemed all that much different than those not beaten on. I think some horses will interact differently with humans if they've had a rougher upbringing, more distanced or robotic, and not seeking our human contact... But that can be said for some horses that were raised and trained right for day one.

I owned a mare who was regularly pronged with a pitchfork, cornered and beat on by her owner. He flipped her over in long lines, too, which ultimately scared him from ever handling her again. I was given her for free, and she was the kindest, sweetest mare. She'd knicker when I'd come out of the house, was great for pony rides in the yard, and just a nice horse to be around... But while I backed her under saddle, any time she felt pressure, she'd flip over on herself. Beyond that, there was no way she really showed the mistreatment she had before.

 

[Zimalia22]

Sorry, @ClearDonkey, but those are not the only signs. Look for the scars.

When we bought our Zimfandel stallion, he'd been beaten severely and often. He had the scars to prove it. They had tried to nerve his tail, and it nearly rotted off. He had the scar to prove that as well. It was YEARS before we could tie him up without him pulling back HARD.
The "trainer" he was put with was a drunk. IF he had a bad night at the bar, he'd come back at 2 am, get Zim out of his stall, tie him short, and beat the daylights out of him. You never saw a horse sooooo afraid in your life.

We just treated him like a horse. Be fair, be consistent, and just let them unwind and decompress.
If there was ever a horse that should not have come back to reality from all that, it was him. But he did. He turned into one of the top cutting stallions in the NorthWest.

Look for the scars. They can be more than just mental. Zim has scars all over his hind quarters from the beating he'd endured. But he came back, and excelled. It can be done.

 

[gottatrot]

Probably he hasn't been beaten, but just trained in a way that went too fast and was too rough so he still has fears about being handled. He sounds shut down, which is what happens to some horses if they are trained using a technique called flooding. That is when the horse is exposed to something until he is quiet, even if he is still terrified inside.

I agree with the others who say the horse needs slow restarting, without being flooded so he can feel fear and react to things, but then slowly learn those things won't hurt him and get over his fear. The guarding of the right side is a sign of a horse that has been barely started. It means the time hasn't been put in yet to desensitize him to handling on both sides. Regardless of what they were able to do to him physically, such as put a saddle on, he hasn't mentally accepted training yet.

Some really spooky horses can appear as if they have been beaten. One of my mares was always handled gently and no one ever mistreated her, but she was very reactive. At one place where I boarded, the owner told me my mare had been beaten, because whenever she raised the pitchfork suddenly, she would flinch and cower. This horse had never been beaten with a pitchfork or anything else, she was just very reactive and even after years of exposure to things, she'd have that reaction to anything that startled her suddenly.

 

[4horses]

I had one that had been so badly mistreated, he never fully recovered from it. Horses can get PTSD, just like people. Certain things would definitely set him off...the sound of gun shots had him running the fence line, trembling, and pouring sweat. The sight of horse trailers and people on a camping trip had him pacing a hole in the ground, and if tied him to the trailer, he would dance in place from nerves.

You can tell if a horse has been mistreated... Most horses spook at something, jump a couple strides, and then they are fine. They come down from the fear and go, okay, I'm okay. A horse that is abused, does not trust, has an over responsive panic/flight response, or freezes and tucks their tail while trembling and showing the white of the eye.

If you have worked with enough horses, you can definitely tell the ones that are mishandled/abused. That doesn't mean they can't overcome the abuse. Some do. Some don't. Some improve to an extent.

Horses are smart enough to associate abuse with just that one person, while other people are considered safe/okay. Those are easier to rehab because they have trust. The most difficult ones are the ones that do not trust anyone and always fear people.

There are some horses that are more reactive, but I think you can definitely tell if it's abuse related vs. over reactivity. An over reactive horse, snorts and blows, and spooks at many different objects or situations. Abused animals seem to react to specific situations in a more dramatic manner then would be expected from a horse with similar training or experience.

 

[stevenson]

I think there are a lot of horses that get beaten, tied short, tied head up , in so called training. Dancing horses and ponies.. cross tied and their legs caned or whipped. I have seen horses tied up in a stall or to a tree head high , so it is tired and keeps its down while ridden. I have seen them saddled and bitted and tied high and tight, so the horse either stands still head tied to its side or it moves in a circle for HOURS at a time.
It is all abusive. That pony could have been lunged so it does 'idiot' circles and is afraid of whips and fast movements. Miss Kitty is startled by fast movements. I am still working on her to stand in the corral unhaltered and let me comb and brush her. I also found if she is tied at the rail and feels that pressure she comes unglued. If I wrap the leading a couple of times around the rail, and she feels it snug but soon as she pulls she gets the release she stands fine to pulling back or breaking leads. Just go back to basics and figure out what works for the pony. I think almost every pony I rode as a kid bucked.

 

[malerkenleigh]

So I’m going with “he was started wrong or too quickly” conclusion. I worked with him again today and I got him to join up with me twice and we ended the session there. When I work with him he just shivers and I feel so bad. I can just tell he is shut down, like when i look at his eyes he is looking past me, if that makes sense. Like he’s reacting in his head but his body is standing still. I almost want him to react to see him come back to reality, but of course I won’t force him. He started to open up when we joined up. He likes hay pellets so far. He does get curious but then just shuts down again. I tried a tiny bit of desensitizing but after a slight reaction then back to being shut down I stopped. At the moment I’m really just trying to figure him out. Not really train him. I’m also going to talk to his owner about his behavior and why he is suddenly acting like this.

 

[ClearDonkey]

So I’m going with “he was started wrong or too quickly” conclusion. I worked with him again today and I got him to join up with me twice and we ended the session there. When I work with him he just shivers and I feel so bad. I can just tell he is shut down, like when i look at his eyes he is looking past me, if that makes sense. Like he’s reacting in his head but his body is standing still. I almost want him to react to see him come back to reality, but of course I won’t force him. He started to open up when we joined up. He likes hay pellets so far. He does get curious but then just shuts down again. I tried a tiny bit of desensitizing but after a slight reaction then back to being shut down I stopped. At the moment I’m really just trying to figure him out. Not really train him. I’m also going to talk to his owner about his behavior and why he is suddenly acting like this.

When I purchased my mare from a rescue, where she was comfortable in her current space, she looked to be a confident young horse. As soon as she came home to a new property, she was the same as you are describing your pony - she would stand, locked, frozen, terrified, and shaking as I approached - even though the week before I was working with her at her old property.

It took about a month for her to settle in the new place, and for her to be comfortable enough for me to halter and begin handling her.

This is one situation where I found value in the Parelli method - their 'horsenalities' address different personality types, and how to train and motivate them. My mare likely would've been a 'right brain introvert' as she would often internalize, but could be pushed to explode if I didn't watch her movements closely enough. From the Parelli website:
"Right brain horses in contrast are reticent, anxious, compliant, mistrustful, and prone to overreactions...Introverted horses are not naturally prone to having a lot of "go" (except when they're panicking); they move slowly and have a tendency to stop."

It may be a load of hog wash, but what I found really important with Minnie is to watch her eyes, and if she isn't blinking, she has gone deep into the depths of her fear and if I do something wrong, she may react explosively. My path to breaking her out of this fear was to first do groundwork of not me approaching her with items, but her following me all around with them. It could be a carrot stick that I'm hitting the ground with, a saddle pad, etc. Then, we'd go on little walks through unknown places where I'd lead but verbally praise her, a lot. I think our golden ticket was obstacle courses set-up in the arena - this exploded her confidence, and she loved figuring things out - the bridge, a kiddie pool full of pop bottles, a tarp, etc.

Good luck

 

[Mimiedith]

So I’m going with “he was started wrong or too quickly” conclusion. I worked with him again today and I got him to join up with me twice and we ended the session there. When I work with him he just shivers and I feel so bad. I can just tell he is shut down, like when i look at his eyes he is looking past me, if that makes sense. Like he’s reacting in his head but his body is standing still. I almost want him to react to see him come back to reality, but of course I won’t force him. He started to open up when we joined up. He likes hay pellets so far. He does get curious but then just shuts down again. I tried a tiny bit of desensitizing but after a slight reaction then back to being shut down I stopped. At the moment I’m really just trying to figure him out. Not really train him. I’m also going to talk to his owner about his behavior and why he is suddenly acting like this.

I recently acquired a mini from a not very nice auction as a companion for my gelding and she is doing exactly what you describe. Goes in a corner, shakes and has those dead eyes. Her halter was much too tight when she arrived and left deep marks on her when we got it off. She had ulcers in her mouth from not having teeth floated. We can not “catch” her ( Wr of course don’t want to chase her) luckily she will follow gelding anywhere including into a stall for feet trimming etc. I am just trying to let her get used to my presence at this point. But any thing you find works with your pony I would love to know. It is like she gives up and is waiting for the worse to happen ( shaking, head down), flinching with even the slowest movement when we have to gently halter her. I feel so bad for her. My only goal is to be able to halter her and bring her in or to a different pasture when necessary. She walks fine on lead.

 

[ACinATX]

When I got Teddy he was pretty shut down. He was also super worried about doing the wrong thing. I know the person who trained him, and I'm pretty sure he got punished for doing the wrong thing. What I did was just spend a lot of time hanging out with him at first, and not asking him to do much beyond lead from here and there. Once I was ready to really start working with him, I only asked him to do things that I knew he could do, and I praised him and rewarded him lavishly. Then I started asking for more, but only in a situation where really his only realistic choice was to do the thing I wanted him to do. Then I'd praise for that. Eventually he relaxed, but I don't think he'll ever not be a little shut down. His trust had just been destroyed. I got a lot of it back, but I don't think anyone will ever get it all back.

 

[krisadreyer]

Yep, the pony is definitely abused by the owners. It should be reported to the police and animal control because the pony needs to be removed from the owners. There is no sense to beat up and scaring the pony. The pony needs a good home.