[Cori Moss]

I have a 5 yr. old Foundation Bred QH Mare. She is 14'2" and stocky with heavy boned legs. We bought her as a yearling and she has been just perfect for this Grandma and young Grandkids. She has a stumbling problem. Yesterday she stumbed and went down on pavement with me.....luckily just abrasions for both of us.

She is very laid back and lazy when she walks...she trots right out and has a beautiful canter. She drags her feet in the pasture and lot and wears a horizontal line across her hind hooves. She has a low heel and we're careful to keep her toes trimmed short in front. Would a rolled-toe shoe help? Any training ideas to get her pick up her feet and step out???

 

[SEAmom]

Have you checked for any neurological or lameness issues? Sometimes tripping is just tripping, but when it happens regularly there is a much greater likelihood of it being something more than just tripping.

That being said, if it isn't a health thing and is instead a lack of proper muscling or laziness, you can try using ground poles and lungeing over them and/or riding over them. I would definitely rule out health first, if you haven't already.
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[churumbeque]

Most generally it is from no collection and being heavy on the forehand.

 

[beau159]

As I already said before, make sure you have the horse completely examined by a vet to make sure there aren't any neurological problems or any lameness problems. Obviously, if her feet aren't trimmed properly, it can absolutely make her prone to tripping.

 

[loosie]

Most generally it is from no collection and being heavy on the forehand.

Certainly can be, but actually falling to her knees is quite extreme. Esp as she's a heavy type QH, with acknowledged hoof problems, and maybe stifle or some such probs - she 'dubs' her back toes - I think it's more likely more to it.

OP, if you'd like to post pics of the horse and her feet, any more info you think relevant - how long is the prob? How old the horse? What farrier & vet have said... we could maybe give you some more specific opinions.

 

[Cori Moss]

Here's a pic

Here's the five year old mare who stumbled and fell yesterday. Know you can't see her hooves in this shot, but she has a rather round hoof with little heel. Her pasterns are long as you can see in her two-year old pic. She tends to drag her feet when she walks and I've always blamed it on just laziness....she is extremely laid back and quiet. She does fine at the trot and lope. Farrier trims her toes short and leaves her heels alone, but she has a flat, round med sized hoof.

 

[Cori Moss]

Hoof Pics of Stumbling Horse

Here are several pics of the 5 yr. old Foundation Bred QH Mare that stumbled and went down Sunday. She has practically no heel and the farriers trim her toe and leave the heels alone. She also has long pasterns as you can see in the pics. Do you think her hooves and pastern angle are the cause of her tripping? How should she be shod??? The last pic is her L. hind that she either rests on or drags to "dub" the toe...you can see where the dirt is worn off where she does this. The first pic shows the vertical scratches where she stumbled. See where she scraped her knees when she went down.

 

[greenhaven]

1. I k ow this question has been asked but I cannot see that it has beenanswered anywhere: has she been evaluated for neurological affectations by your vet?

2. She has a terrible, terrible trim job, from what I can tell your pics are insufficient, unfortunately, for a real balanced look. But those heels should not be busting all out like that! I suspect grossly overgrown bars that are impacting and shoving their way out the hoof wall.

3. We truly need better pics of CLEAN hooves. Get your hose and scrub brush out and go to town on the outside and sole of those feet. Of each foot: a shot straight on from the front then from the side at *ground level* A shot of the sole of the foot *straight* on, no oblique angles. A shot sighting down the hoof from heel to toe so you can just see the toe.

 

[loosie]

Cori, best to stick to one thread on your subject. You might ask the mods to join this to the other, so all the info's there.

The photos are helpful, but the angles(and cleanliness!) could be better, to give a more accurate idea. The diagram I attached in the other thread, I reckon should read '...pic NEEDS to be taken squarely, from ground level' etc rather than 'it is best to...'

So only a rough idea really, and it's obvious she's due for a trim, and 'after' pics would give us more idea too. It appears her soles at the toe may be rather flat and toes/sole stretched forward a little. But mostly, her heels are way long! You can see easily where the excess length has broken away at the quarter, right side of the sole shot, how much extra heel is behind it. I hear you that the farrier has said something like 'she can't grow heel', so has left them. She may well be too *low* in the heel, but it's not for lack of growth, but that excess length has collapsed under & forward. This will also be effecting her toe length.

The hind toe dubbing doesn't look too bad, and of course whatever is going on in her hind end may be influencing the hoof to be that conformation... or it may be picture angle... but heels appear very high, hoof too upright. Can't tell more with only that pic.

The front-on pic... Is it just the way she's standing, or the angle of pic... or because I've got to turn my head sideways to see:-|:lol:, or does her right leg angle in at the fetlock & left leg angle out??

 

[Cori Moss]

The front-on pic...she was getting ready to turn when I snapped it. I've contacted a different farrier who specializes in corrective work. She was 'trimmed" a month ago. Thanks for all your help!

 

[loosie]

I've contacted a different farrier who specializes in corrective work.

OK, hope he turns out good for her then. FWIW, I don't think it looks like she obviously needs any 'corrective' work... just correct work:wink:

....But then again, I think many of these 'corrective' guys know that too, but they can't advertise as 'specialising in correcting the other bloke's work'! :lol:

 

[greenhaven]

....But then again, I think many of these 'corrective' guys know that too, but they can't advertise as 'specialising in correcting the other bloke's work'! :lol:

LOL! Too bad, though....

 

[beau159]

Hard to tell with the poor photographs of dirty feet, but it is still enough to see that you need a new farrier immediately.

What do you mean that she has "no heels"? Her heels are under-run.

The angle she's been trimmed at is also wrong too. Do you see the angle of her pastern, compared to the steep angle of her hoof?

I still think it is vitally pertinent that you have a neurological examination done on her, to cover all your bases. But her feet absolutely need work.

Once you get her feet under control, and you are cleared by the vet, I would also work on getting this horse into shape, as that may help. Pictures can be deceiving sometimes but she looks pretty flabby in the pictures.

 

[Patty Stiller]

Only one picture is useful, the one showing the bottom of the foot. That horse has TONS and TONS of HEEL. It is all Crushed and run forward . That alone will cause stumbling because the overgrown heels get sore so the horse will tey to land on the toe instead to avoid the discomfort , and will stumble as a result . AND sore heels causing a toe first landing jams bones together incorrectly inside the foot and will most likely lead to navicular syndrome sooner rather than later.

 

[Rialto]

She needs a LOT of heel removed, over the process of several trims. Ideally, the heels should terminate at the widest part of the frog (last weight bearing surface) in order to provide a flat and wide surface at the rear of the foot for sound, heel first landings.

 

[Cori Moss]

Have contacted a highly recommended farrier and even though he's not taking new clients, he's agreed to help us. He said he'd have to cut her heels way back and shoe her. Really disppointed in the farriers we've used..all three just shortened her toe. She's a gentle doll with a huge soft eye and lets the toddlers crawl all over her. Thanks for all your help.....so glad i posted here.

 

[loosie]

Yeah, unfortunately 'highly respected' doesn't necessarily mean they're good, as most horse owners aren't well educated about hooves, so they can't make objective judgements. Average farriers are sooo common too, so I think it's vital people learn the principles for themselves.

I don't know why, if he's going only on these pics, the new guy thinks shoes are necessasry, and I don't agree, but best wishes with him & let us know how you go ;-)

 

[greenhaven]

Good luck, Cori. It seems to me that the more horse owners are getting educated about their horses' feet the more they are realizing the dearth of 'good' farriers. Plenty of farriers out there. But their training and knowledge seem to be way behind and so ,any horse owners are resorting to educating themselves and trimming their own.

 

[beau159]

I don't know why, if he's going only on these pics, the new guy thinks shoes are necessasry, and I don't agree,

I'm not really sure why shoes would be necessary either?

I personally think you should start with a good balanced trim and see how your horse does from there, before adding shoes. If she needs them, then she needs them ..... but I'm not seeing a reason why she would need them? She seems to have good feet (they've just been trimmed wrong!), so I would think when she is trimmed correctly, she should be fine barefoot.

 

[Patty Stiller]

I also don't know why she would need shoes unless her soles are also sore. Removing the excess heel and bar, and simply rolling the toe should do the trick. It's a super simple fix.