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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Can my Senior horse thrive without Senior Feed?

Hi,

I posted previously about my 24 year old mare that couldn't chew hay, got a severe impaction colic and was very ill for a couple of months back in November. She has greatly improved and I am now able to ride her again.

I have her on a strict feeding schedule of Purina Senior Horse Feed and Alfalfa/Bermuda hay cubes. She gets 10lbs of the Senior and 16lbs of the Cubes a day in 4lb feedings, every couple of hours from 7am till 9pm. She gets the following supplements daily: Adeptus Nimble Mega Nutrient, Redmond Rock Daily Gold Clay, Probios Probiotic, and free choice salt block.

After the recent feed poisonings I am considering cutting out the Purina Senior Diet and just sticking with the Alfalfa/Bermuda cubes. So, giving her 26lbs of the cubes instead of any senior diet. What do you think? Also would I have to do the change gradual or could I just discontinue the Purina?

Her weight is good now I think. She is able to do a 90 minute trail ride with me and is energetic in the round pen. She gets out every day.

I have pasted the nutritional value of the supplements below.






So how much of each mineral is my horse actually getting from Daily Gold?
Calcium: 994 mg/oz
Phosphorus: 227 mg/oz
Salt: 710 mg/oz
Magnesium: 227 mg/oz
Potassium: 198 mg/oz
Sulfur: 45 mg/oz
Copper: 0.57 mg/oz
Iron: 110 mg/oz
Manganese: 11 mg/oz





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I put the possible diet into the FeedXL program.

Iodized Salt Block 2 oz

Redmond Equine Daily Gold 1 oz

Adeptus Animal Nutrition Nimble Mega-Nutrient 2 oz

Alfalfa/Bermuda Hay Cubes 26 lb


This is the analysis:
The first number is what a horse around 850 lbs needs (your horse might need more if she weighs more), the second number is what the diet is providing, and the third number is the percentage of the recommended value.
I'm sorry, it wouldn't go into neat columns.

Digestible Energy 19.6 MCal 22.7 MCal 116%

Crude Protein 681 g 1,482 g 218%

Lysine 29.3 g 3.1 g 10.5%

Calcium 29.9 g 157 g 525%

Phosphorus 19.5 g 31.4 g 161%

Copper 130 mg 50.6 mg 38.8%

Zinc 347 mg 153 mg 44.2%

Selenium 2.2 mg 0.53 mg 24.5%

Manganese 347 mg 126 mg 36.4%

Iodine 3 mg 6.1 mg 200%

Iron 460 mg 151 mg 32.8%

Sodium 15.4 g 27 g 161%

Chloride 41.1 g 87.8 g 214%

Magnesium 9.3 g 1.3 g 13.9%

Potassium 28.6 g 8.9 g 31%

Vitamin A 26,989 IU 11,692 IU 43.3%

Vitamin B1 40.2 mg 23.3 mg 58%

Vitamin B2 17.3 mg 17.4 mg 100%

Folic Acid 15.6 mg 8.2 mg 52.7%


This diet has quite a few deficiencies, so if you plan to feed this I would recommend adding more comprehensive supplements.

The analysis for 10 lbs Senior and 16 lbs hay cubes is much better: It is just too high in protein so might be a bit hard on the kidneys for an older horse. The only two things that were highlighted in this diet as needing attention were the high Protein, low Folic Acid and Selenium.

Digestible Energy 19.6 MCal 26.6 MCal 136%

Crude Protein 681 g 1,573 g 231%

Lysine 29.3 g 34.8 g 119%

Calcium 29.9 g 132 g 442%

Phosphorus 19.5 g 38.2 g 196%

Copper 130 mg 300 mg 231%

Zinc 347 mg 1,151 mg 332%

Selenium 2.2 mg 1.9 mg 87.2%

Manganese 347 mg 1,124 mg 324%

Iodine 3 mg 21.5 mg 707%

Iron 460 mg 1,149 mg 250%

Sodium 15.4 g 43.4 g 281%

Chloride 41.1 g 112 g 273%

Magnesium 9.3 g 16.3 g 175%

Potassium 28.6 g 81.4 g 284%

Vitamin A 26,989 IU 45,000 IU 167%

Vitamin E 867 IU 1,924 IU 222%

Vitamin B1 40.2 mg 137 mg 340%

Vitamin B2 17.3 mg 108 mg 623%

Folic Acid 15.6 mg 8.2 mg 52.7%
 

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Hi,

I posted previously about my 24 year old mare that couldn't chew hay, got a severe impaction colic and was very ill for a couple of months back in November. She has greatly improved and I am now able to ride her again.

I have her on a strict feeding schedule of Purina Senior Horse Feed and Alfalfa/Bermuda hay cubes. She gets 10lbs of the Senior and 16lbs of the Cubes a day in 4lb feedings, every couple of hours from 7am till 9pm. She gets the following supplements daily: Adeptus Nimble Mega Nutrient, Redmond Rock Daily Gold Clay, Probios Probiotic, and free choice salt block.

After the recent feed poisonings I am considering cutting out the Purina Senior Diet and just sticking with the Alfalfa/Bermuda cubes. So, giving her 26lbs of the cubes instead of any senior diet. What do you think? Also would I have to do the change gradual or could I just discontinue the Purina?

Her weight is good now I think. She is able to do a 90 minute trail ride with me and is energetic in the round pen. She gets out every day.

I have pasted the nutritional value of the supplements below.






So how much of each mineral is my horse actually getting from Daily Gold?
Calcium: 994 mg/oz
Phosphorus: 227 mg/oz
Salt: 710 mg/oz
Magnesium: 227 mg/oz
Potassium: 198 mg/oz
Sulfur: 45 mg/oz
Copper: 0.57 mg/oz
Iron: 110 mg/oz
Manganese: 11 mg/oz





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I think you'd be making a big mistake. The contaminated feed wasn't from Purina, if you're talking about the monensin found in Nutrena Sr. If she's doing well on what you're currently feeding, I wouldn't change.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you so much for taking the time to do the diet feedxl for me. Yes, I see she would be way off on allot of things. She is around 1080lbs now.

Dreamcatcher, I think you are right. Will stick with what I am doing.

Thank you.
 

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My internet went down, now back working I see other posts but will still post mine... ;-)

WHOA....slow down!!!


Don't change a feeding regime that is working because of a fear "something" may happen!!

First off this monesin poisoning happened in Nutrena feeds, period.
That company has "0" to do with Purina feeds...

Second, before you jump off....
Do your homework...Do your research...

Purina feeds for horses are made in facilities dedicated to horse feed.
There is NO medicated feed of any kind made in a horse feed facility, PERIOD!!
There is "0" chance if feeding Purina horse feed products of a medicated feed poisoning happening. "0" chance...

Purina, along with Seminole Feed are the only 2 large commercial feed companies with a "horse line" that have dedicated facilities to HORSE FEED ONLY!!
Southern States aka Triple Crown does NOT...
Neither does Nutrena..
I honestly am unsure of regional brand manufacturers or what small private mills do...
Many companies do other types of feeds, chicken, goat, sheep, pig and such that have additives that can harm or be lethal to horses if ingested. Everyone thinks "cattle" feed, it is not only cattle feed but any feed that is "medicated" or from a production line where medicated is made that can cause illness or death.

Don't though jump to conclusions and change a feeding program on a horse, especially one with past issues, because of "a fear"....
Investigate, do your research and homework and then, ONLY THEN make changes if they are warranted.

Best of continued luck with your mare now improved and on track to good health and thriving!!
I would not change the horse off of the Purina feed....not if she is thriving and doing well...I just would not!
:runninghorse2:...

 

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My internet went down, now back working I see other posts but will still post mine... ;-)

WHOA....slow down!!!


Don't change a feeding regime that is working because of a fear "something" may happen!!

First off this monesin poisoning happened in Nutrena feeds, period.
That company has "0" to do with Purina feeds...

Second, before you jump off....
Do your homework...Do your research...

Purina feeds for horses are made in facilities dedicated to horse feed.
There is NO medicated feed of any kind made in a horse feed facility, PERIOD!!
There is "0" chance if feeding Purina horse feed products of a medicated feed poisoning happening. "0" chance...

Purina, along with Seminole Feed are the only 2 large commercial feed companies with a "horse line" that have dedicated facilities to HORSE FEED ONLY!!
Southern States aka Triple Crown does NOT...
Neither does Nutrena..
I honestly am unsure of regional brand manufacturers or what small private mills do...
Many companies do other types of feeds, chicken, goat, sheep, pig and such that have additives that can harm or be lethal to horses if ingested. Everyone thinks "cattle" feed, it is not only cattle feed but any feed that is "medicated" or from a production line where medicated is made that can cause illness or death.

Don't though jump to conclusions and change a feeding program on a horse, especially one with past issues, because of "a fear"....
Investigate, do your research and homework and then, ONLY THEN make changes if they are warranted.

Best of continued luck with your mare now improved and on track to good health and thriving!!
I would not change the horse off of the Purina feed....not if she is thriving and doing well...I just would not!
:runninghorse2:...

1. Correct this latest scare is allegedly Nutrena.

2. NOT correct that Good Ole Purina has plants totally dedicated to horse feed IF the entire manufacturing property is being discussed.

My conversation with a local Pruina rep was in 2013, so things may have changed. BUT, back then, the Purina plant on Trousdale Ave in Nashville, TN manufactured BOTH ruminant feed and horse feed on the same plot of land.

HOWEVER, the manufacturing plants for each were allegedly at opposite ends of the property; supposedly making it nearly impossible for monensin, etc to get mixed into the horse feed.

3. OP, here is what I don't like about your supplements:

3.1. Obnoxiously high iron amounts per serving.

3.2. Where's the zinc? I don't see any zinc rationed with the copper. Copper and zinc need appropriately rationed the same as calcium and phosphorous.

3.3. To make matters worse, too much iron depletes copper and zinc, which are needed for hoof and coat health, and to stabilize insulin. Even if your mare does not have metabolic issues, she's plenty old enough to worry about it.

4. If you still live in California, and live where there isn't any grass, vit/mineral deficiencies are a big issue, IMHO.

You are doing over kill in some vit/min areas and starving her in others.

While I have no use whatsoever for Purina anything, if she is doing well on it, stick with it while you research for something else if you're unhappy with it.

Ditch those other supplements.

Feed her WHITE salt. Not gray, not blue, not red. Feed PURE WHITE without any dots in it.

Feed the hay and alfalfa cubes, although as has been commented, you need to watch the high protein in too much alfalfa.

5. Do you buy enough hay and alfalfa at one time, to merit having it tested? Selenium could be an issue.

If your low in selenium (keep in mind the amount in the Purina feed), you might benefit from adding CalTrace. CalTrace is not a complete vit/min supplement. It is a great supplement to compliment a complete feed:)

California Trace - Nutritional Support for Horses

I live in southern Middle Tennessee. I am advised against feeding CalTrace by my Ag person as we are a tch high in selenium. The combination of pasture grass/hay/vit-min supplement gives my horses enough. The CalTrace could have put them over the safe margin.

6. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. When in doubt, less is more. The best place to start is having the hay tested, if you are able to store 1-2 months:)
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Hi,
Thanks Horseloving guy. Yes, it was Nutrena and not Purina. I know they have the horse dedicated plants but still worry about things sometimes. I will continue the Purina. She is doing well on it.

Walk, she cannot eat regular hay so I have to buy her the cubes. The bag has the nutritional value on the back. I think the protein is at 12%. I will check it today when I go in. I know the iodine is high. That is from the daily gold clay supplement. It is the only thing that firmed up her manure. When I have tried to discontinue it she starts to have cow paddy manure again. It also has alleviated ulcer symptoms where the ulcer guard did not. That is the only reason I keep her on it. As for the Nimble meganutriant, It really works for her. She does great on it and if I stop using it I can tell after about 2 weeks. She gets more stiff and "clicky" in her hocks etc. So I don't want to stop that one either. The salt I give her is the white 5lb salt block. I never use the colored salt blocks, and she has access to it 24/7.

I do wish she could eat hay again but for now she still cannot. She can however chew the hay cubes if I soak them in water 5 minutes prior to feeding. This is good since I used to have to soak them till totally soft. So some improvement.

She is expensive but well worth it. I board her and do not get a discount although hay is included in her board and I don't use any of their hay. It costs me about the same amount of money in food as it does in board. She is also in special shoes that cost about the same as the board monthly. She is worth every penny and I am so happy to have be happy right now.

It is her birthday today. Maybe we will have a shredded carrot. Maybe just a walk.

Thanks for the advice. This is a recent picture
 

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Hi,
Thanks Horseloving guy. Yes, it was Nutrena and not Purina. I know they have the horse dedicated plants but still worry about things sometimes. I will continue the Purina. She is doing well on it.

Walk, she cannot eat regular hay so I have to buy her the cubes. The bag has the nutritional value on the back. I think the protein is at 12%. I will check it today when I go in. I know the iodine is high. That is from the daily gold clay supplement. It is the only thing that firmed up her manure. When I have tried to discontinue it she starts to have cow paddy manure again. It also has alleviated ulcer symptoms where the ulcer guard did not. That is the only reason I keep her on it. As for the Nimble meganutriant, It really works for her. She does great on it and if I stop using it I can tell after about 2 weeks. She gets more stiff and "clicky" in her hocks etc. So I don't want to stop that one either. The salt I give her is the white 5lb salt block. I never use the colored salt blocks, and she has access to it 24/7.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you're concerned about too much iron, look at https://www.platinumperformance.com/equine-bio-sponge-supplement, this could solve that problem (if it is one). If she works better on the Nimble, keep her on it. All anyone here can offer is suggestions based on personal experience. We don't know your horse or your conditions. We're not vets, not qualified to prescribe or diagnose.
 

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Oh, I know that. I only look for opinions from other people here. I always contact my vet if it is a real issue like colic or something. I will say though that most vets out here do not have much interest in nutrition. I do understand why. Don't really care for it myself but of course like feet, have no choice but to try learn about it.

I only look for other horse people's experiences here. Not medical advice.

I will continue what I am doing for now and look into fixing the inbalances in her diet. Thanks again
 

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Happy Happy 24th Birthday to a very beautiful horse! She is a traffic stopper:)

I think nearly everyone on this forum has one horse they have to spend a fortune to keep healthy:)

I am down to two ---- one is insulin resistant, has foundered, and is an accident waiting to happen. I could have had a high level Dressage horse and 1st class tickets on a couple of Alaskan Cruises for the money I have already poured into him, lol

Keep doing your research and know that sometimes what works now, may not work in six months -- I have especially noticed that with my elder horses. Their digestive systems continue to wear down as they age, thus changing their ability to process something that was easy to process before.
 
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She is geeeeorgous!
 
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