Thats right ^^ My old boy Bishop was really thin at one stage. He is old now, about 20 - 21. He is retired from work. He's not as unthin as he should be, but he's getting there I got him a vitamin from the vet that'll help, he eats lots and lots of hay, grass, and he gets about 4 scoops of feed twice a day. He's going to be a good sized boy in no time

I wrote that just so anyone can see that I talked to my vet, and I am fattening him up But your right ^^ People that just say "sorry", but dont feed the horse more than what he's having then I dunno. I get it if you ARE trying, that its just taking a while, some horses are like that, esp. here in SA, but as long as your trying. And I'm NOT at all saying that those of you out there with a thin horse are not trying... so please dont take offence

 

I completely understand that it does take time to get weight and condition on a horse, but what I'm really talking about are the people who feed and feed and feed with no concern to the horse's digestive system or why it isn't gaining weight. I'm talking about the people who just say they're old and continue to ride their emaciated horses when really they should be in a paddock, retired.

 

Oh, I know what you mean! Lacey's thinnish right now and when I've tried talking to my BO about getting her more food I get the "she's old, that's what happens, it's not bad." crap and my favorite: "she's old and dying, basically, so why should we waste more hay on her?" What dumb butts. I'd move but I'm basically boarding her there for free and I really don't have a steady source of income so I can't justify moving her and hoping for the best, especially at her age. And I really didn't want to own her at this stage (becuase of the money thing) but according to them I officially own her now, even though we never agreed on that. The farthest we had talked ownership-wise was that I half owned her as of last July. Well, evidently I own her now. Thanks for sharing that news with me, guys! haha

Thankfully, now that the grass is coming in, she's grazing 24/7 so the pounds are packing themselves right back on. But still, I hate looking at my horse and seeing her ribs at all. I hate feeling happy when I can't see them, that shouldn't have to happen!
I cannot wait until I can move my baby to somewhere that sees her as the princess she is and doesn't care that she's 25, since she obviously doesn't care! Haha

 

I have to disagree, and agree.
Agree becaue it's true.
Disagree becasue some horses are JUST HARD to keep weight on, even if you spen hundereds on getting hay,soil, and bodily tests done. Even if their rugged and not super old. Like TB;s. Some can be EXTREMELY hard keepers.

 

yep i agree with you !!

my sisters mare is a tb & a HARD keeper. fat for her is when you can barely see her ribs. she gets the best food you can buy & as much of it as she will eat. she is not unhealthy, that is just her body type. much like some people who others think are anorexic, but that is just how their body functions.

 

Hmmm also have to sort of disagree here. Illness, stress and injury can all make a horse lose weight and not put it back on for a long time.

 

I had no problem keeping weight on my hard keepin TB - it's not rocket science

 

I agree IF the horse is in good health.

A boarder at my barn has been trying to solve her horses weight loss and stress issues. He refuses to eat allot of the time but always has food in front of him. He has been seen I think twice in the past couple months, treated for ulcers, had blood work drawn up. I see her making every effort to address his health and weight issues and he will respond for a short time and then decline again and looks very thin right now.

 

Agreed... barring no health issues needs added to my above post. It is not difficult to keep a healthy horse in good weight

 

Sorry but your attitude bugs me. There are MANY reasons for a horse to be thin that have nothing to do with abuse. Let's see here...there's rescued, hard keepers (esp thoroughbreds), old age, the list goes on and on. The place that I work at has horses that are used for hippotherapy. They are also 30 flippin' years old.Do you really expect them to keep the weight of a normal horse???

 

Nelson has had a rough spell, and he was skinny for a few months. On that note, he's always been a very hard keeper because he is a TB, and his level of stress is high, even when he doesn't show it.

Alot of skinny horses have ulcers, unknown to the owner. While the owners could be pumping food into their horses, with no luck. Other horses have high metabolisim systems, like TB's and even when the owner is giving them the feed amounts they think they need, the horses can just burn it off quickly showing no change in weight.

Many horses have digestive issues, without the owners knowing, and horses cannot gain weight until those digestive issues are addressed.

I'm not disagreeing that those who have horses and neglect them, due to ignorance or due to other reasons, should get punished - along with every owner out there of any animal species, whether it be a dog, cat, hamster and the list goes on.......these are lives in our hands and we have the power to do our best for them as we should.

But there are people out there who have horses who have issues, and try their very hardest to give their horses what they need.

Horses who are getting the groceries, and aren't gaining weight as well as others would, are hard cases. I am spending over $100 a month on feed, Purina Senior and Purina Ultium. Plus $65 a month on a round bale, plus $110 a month on suppliments *digestive and ulcer*, plus Coco Soya oil - and Nelson is just now putting weight on, and he is still ribby.

He's been scoped twice, both stomache and farther than his stomache, to reveal ulcers in both. And he is 21 this month. He is a choker, and he just went through a near death colic.

What would you do if he were yours?

 

You have a good point, but you are failing to acknowledge a few things. As several people have mentioned, there are often outside circumstances that cause horses to be a little ribby that do not stem from neglect or lack of care. Illness can do a number on your horse, no matter how much you feed, or how well you care for them and it takes time to regain that, as MIEventer mentions above. You can't just throw a lot of feed at them all at once to make up for it. Aside from illness, there's also conditional factors in the horses lives that can cause temporary thinness. My mare is a tiny bit ribby right now - she just grew and gave birth to an enormous foal. My yearling colt is a bit ribby right now, because he's a gangling, gawky yearling that is going through an enormous growth spurt. Seeing a little rib doesn't automatically make a horse unhealthy. But at the same time when you are talking about severely underweight, with protruding spine, hipbones, a TRULY emaciated horse, yes there is no excuse if the horse has been in someone's care for more than a few months.

But by the same token, and from your "no-tolerance" standpoint especially, a fat, obese horse is just as unhealthy as a thin one, and in some ways more prone to long term damage. Why aren't you complaining about those ones?

People have gotten used to the image of the fat, flabby, overweight horse as an reflection of shining health, and it's just frankly incorrect. Horses are athletes, (well, some of them are anyways!) and their physique should reflect that. Seeing a little rib on a horse doesn't mean it's unhealthy. I've not seen a picture of ANY horse members posting on here that I would consider emaciated.

 

I have to agree as far as theres no excuse for emaciated, starving horses.

I do also have to agree with everyone else though that there are situations when seeing a little rib is understandable. One of my thoroughbreds is a ridiculously hard keeper, but I manage. However he's just had an episode of major colic. Guess who's showing a little rib right now? And I spoke to the vet about it today and he said it is perfectly understandable in his situation.

So therefore, I agree, but I disagree at the same time.

 

Great post Indyhorse, you make some very valid points, and I appreciate that.

You are right about overly weight horses. I've heard in the horse world that the weight leads to stress on their joints, knees, hocks, ankles which leads to joint issues down the road.

Also, the fact that just because you see some rib, doesn't make them unhealthy. Look at Eventing Horses in the Mid to Upper Levels where they condition to the extreme to beable to ride the sport - most show ribs, but they are definately not unhealthy. The ribs show due to how conditioned they are and how high their metabolism systems are - while yet, they have muscle and are vey physically fit.

~~~~

I wish I had pictures of Nelson's condition during January, Feb, and March. I wish I took pictures of his condition then and his progression.

But here he is today. These pics were just taken yesterday before we headed to an Eventing Clinic for the day:

 

I agree mostly with the OP.

It's not the fact that horses may get a little thin that I find inexcusable. There are many situations that lead up to such a result that have very little to do with what the horse is actually taking in food-wise. There's always circumstance, there's cause-and-effect, as there is with everything. What I find inexcusable is when people try to justify themselves regarding their clearly underweight horse like they're trying to fish for some reason why they can't bring it back to a healthy weight. With that kind of mindset, the horse is probably going to get worse or just not improve (I stress the probably, though, since sometimes the justification is just a result of being defensive of the situation, not complete and utter 'not caring').

But then again, I'm also the type of person who dislikes excuses and/or the all-too-common "oh I can't" or "it's a lot harder in my case" antics. If the horse is thin, it needs some weight, and if it's difficult keeping weight on them, it becomes a matter of finding out how to do so (such as using outside sources like your vet). Either way the owner should be pretty avidly working on a solution. If not, it's then and there it becomes inexcusable. And no, of course it's not going to turn over night and the horse will be sparkly perfect and at a good weight at the crack of dawn the next day. Weight gain takes a lot of time. I know that, you know that, they know that. But it is possible, and if anything is even the slightest bit possible, making up excuses as to why it can't be done is just going to put blocks in their own road, not to mention negatively affect their horse.

 

I disagree. We had a premature Arabian Gelding who was abused for a couple years. When we got him, we trained him and tried to put weight on him but he just wouldn't keep it. We had he teeth done, a few pulled, every year, once or twice. He received one scoop of grain, and 1/2 a bale everyday. He almost always had access to a round bale. We didn't ride him a lot, and you could still see every bone in his body.
We also had two off-track thoroughbred mares. One, who is 24, and my dad's baby who is 12. the eldest, Wings, was terrible to put weight on. We rode her a few easy times every month, and for one week at the county fair. She had 1/2 bale every day, and in the summer she got a scoop of grain. Almost always she had access to a round bale. Even now, at a retirement home, where she hasn't seen a saddle in 8months, still is a skinny horse. My dad's horse, Chicky, is ridden a few times every week. She gets beet pulp 2 times a day, full access to a round bale, 2 scoops of grain, and another 1/2 a bale. Her teeth are fine, she's healthy. And guess what? She's still underweight. We have tried to get all 3 of these horses to a normal weight for 7 to 8 years now.
Now you tell me that we didn't try and spend a ton of money to keep our healthy horses fat.

 

I disagree. We had a premature Arabian Gelding who was abused for a couple years. When we got him, we trained him and tried to put weight on him but he just wouldn't keep it. We had he teeth done, a few pulled, every year, once or twice. He received one scoop of grain, and 1/2 a bale everyday. He almost always had access to a round bale. We didn't ride him a lot, and you could still see every bone in his body.
We also had two off-track thoroughbred mares. One, who is 24, and my dad's baby who is 12. the eldest, Wings, was terrible to put weight on. We rode her a few easy times every month, and for one week at the county fair. She had 1/2 bale every day, and in the summer she got a scoop of grain. Almost always she had access to a round bale. Even now, at a retirement home, where she hasn't seen a saddle in 8months, still is a skinny horse. My dad's horse, Chicky, is ridden a few times every week. She gets beet pulp 2 times a day, full access to a round bale, 2 scoops of grain, and another 1/2 a bale. Her teeth are fine, she's healthy. And guess what? She's still underweight. We have tried to get all 3 of these horses to a normal weight for 7 to 8 years now.
Now you tell me that we didn't try and spend a ton of money to keep our healthy horses fat.

I don't buy that.. I've kept hard keeper TB's in good weight. I'd be looking into the quality of your feed and hay, and also, probios is cheap.

For healthy horses, regardless of breed, there's always some way to keep them nutritionally sound. Look into different feeds and a better hay source. Obviously your current plan isn't working if it's been 7-8 years

 

MIEventer ~ Nelson looks great! I hadn't seen recent photos of him. I wouldn't consider him underweight at this point at all. He still has some rebuilding of the lost muscle to do along his topline, but that has nothing to do with feeding and just takes time with a recovering horse. I'm impressed with how good he looks right now!

The thing is, people get used to the appearance of some breeds as well, and you can't apply a QH build to a TB, for example, and I've seen so many people tell TB or Arab people their horses are too skinny, when they aren't, they are just built differently and not meant to be "fat". People anamorphize way too much with horses.

My yearling is showing a good bit of rib right now, but if you look at the rest of him instead of focusing on just the ribs, he is well muscled, there is even a "channel" along his topline and over his rump. He could use a little more weight, but he's growing and changing fast right now and he'd be ribby no matter what he ate unless I purposefully packed a bunch of fat-based poundage on him - and on an undeveloped, growing skeletal frame, that would be very unhealthy for him long term and not doing him any favors.

 

I have a 22yr old gelding. People told me he looked like a 5yr old and could not believe he was 20. He was just in such good condition. Muscular, great weight, good teeth, healthy coat. Then his friend foundered and we had to get a new horse. We ended up getting a mini mare, who we rescued from being tied to this one post her entire life. It was sickening. She had halter marks digging into her face where her foal halter had dug into her now grown face. Anyway, my gelding hated her but at least it was something. He wasn't alone anymore. Then we got a Paint Clydesdale gelding and a pony stallion. NOW my gelding, Arthur, suddenly liked this mare. He has always been dominant so he took to herding her around incessantly! He lost a ton of weight. A lot. He was ribby, his muscling declined..... I mean, none of our horses have ever been thin. They've always been a little tubby or perfect weight. So I guess it wasn't that bad, we were just a little paranoid. So we went to equine nutrition seminars galore......trying to find something that would work. I posted on many horse forums (not this one, I didn't know of this one yet) and finally got something that said to use beet pulp. I did that loyally for a few weeks. He started to get better, but I wasn't going to have him on beet pulp his entire life, so at one seminar I brought a notepad and I filled 30 pages of notes. I finally found the perfect diet. Granted, it's 2 whole feed scoops of food, but thats what he needs. Plus, the food is engineered so he won't colic from a lot of feed. It's 1 1/2 scoops of Nutrena Equine Senior. And 1/2 scoop of crimped oats. And a serving of senior vitamins. Now he looks like that 5yr old again
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Thats the same 'recipe' I used with my old guy... works great!

 

qthorsecrazy, not all HARD KEEPER TB's are as ahrd as others. While yours may have been easier, some ARE hard.

 

exactly.

 

I agree. Of course if your horse is a little bit on the skinny side you're going to feed more but if you are not getting any results obviusly just feeding it more isn't going to do anything.

People that "care" so much about their horse and want it be fattened up need to go to the vet about it not just think that feeding it more will help and if it does then it does.
But if it doesn't then you need the vet.

 

This is a really interesting thread and there are some great points being made here.

I've had a fair amount of experience with starving horses as my mum and aunty used to run an animal rescue centre.

We took in two horses that were just skin stretched over bone - they literally had what looked like a shelf between their spines and the top of their ribs.
The one mare was a TB and I'm not sure what the other was. We put them on a feed called Equilibra which worked absolute wonders for them. Within about 12 weeks they looked pretty much back to normal. The feed manufacturer used their before and after photos in an advert.

I appreciate that a lot of horses are harder to keep covered than others, but going back quite a while ago, I started riding a TB x who would have been about 19 or 20. For the first year that I rode her, my mum and I looked after her all winter and fed her, changed rugs etc etc. I made sure she had loads of hay and always had a good feed in the evening. Someone on the yard remarked that they never saw her looking so good.

The following year, the person who owned her told me the horse had not kept her weight so well last year (What???) and took over feeding her that winter. Well, the weight just fell off her. It was terribly distressing to see her going downhill so much. The fact that the owner wouldn't let me rug her either didn't help. So once again, I got some Equilbra and started feeding her in secret. Not the best scenario in the world but the owner was just such a complete know it all that there was no point speaking to her and I worried if I said anything, she would stop me seeing the horse altogether and then she would get even thinner.

Anyway, to get back to the point, in a lot of cases, there is no excuse for skinny horses.

 

MIEventer ~ Nelson looks great! I hadn't seen recent photos of him. I wouldn't consider him underweight at this point at all. He still has some rebuilding of the lost muscle to do along his topline, but that has nothing to do with feeding and just takes time with a recovering horse. I'm impressed with how good he looks right now!

Thanks Indy! Nelson was alot of work, but we're getting there! The conditoining part, absolutely. He lost alot of EVERYTHING due to January, so it has been a daily process to get that muscle back.

He's always had a topline difficult to build. I've done so much long and low with him, so much to the point now, that's all he wants to do. Now that the snow is gone, we do alot of hacking out in the large pastures and are now just incorporating trot and canter segments in our daily eventing exercise program.

 

I think you're being a little harsh and there are circumstances which lead to skinny horses even with the owner doing everything they can.

We had a TWH gelding that we bought when he was a weanling. He was a walking skeleton, apparently the breeder ran out of money and stopped feeding the horses. When my parents bought him they had the vet out and poured money into this horse. He got better and grew up but he always had health problems and always lost weight in the winter, no matter what we were feeding him. And yes we had the vet out about it and talked to lots of "knowledgeble" people about it.

The last two years of his life (especially the last one) he was really thin and even worse in the winter. He wouldn't eat enough food to keep the weight on. We had the vet out to float his teeth and check him out. Nothing that they could see caused his problems. We finally put him down two falls ago when he was 27 because I didn't think we could get him comfortably through another winter.

He was dying plain and simple. Same thing my old cat did. There are some diseases that end with the animals extremely emaciated. Have you ever watched a person die after a long drawn out illness? They are almost always a rack of bones. After he died I spoke with some of my professors about his condition and the difficulty keeping weight on him and they thought that it stemmed from being starved so severly when he was younger. A combo of some actual damage to his system and his mental "full point" being drastically lowered due to the starvation in his younger years.

 

I do somewhat i agree with this.

Yes there are cases where the horse is just too old and just loses so much weight it is just unbearable to look at and to control.

Although i agree with the fact that there is no excuse for a thin horse, I also agree that being old is the only exception.

 

Being old isn't an excuse.

Dying is.

 

Exactly.

I get what you guys are saying about what might be normal for a TB isn't normal for a QH. My description in my first post was just a general one, not one that defines each and every breed and circumstance. And some people might take a lack of muscle as a lack of weight but that is a completely different thing.

Horses do take time to put on weight, its not some magic thing that happens overnight. So to the people with thin horses who are trying, I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the ones who make up excuses. There are many, many reasons why a horse might be thin, but there are far many more reasons why you should be trying to get them into a healthy condition.

I'm not saying that they all have to chubby little horses, but a horse should have a nice healthy condition. I mean c'mon, being part of a responsible horse owner is taking care of your horse and caring for its wellbeing.

 

^ If you want to be like that, we are dying from the moment we are born.

There is a difference between an old horse and one that is clearly dying. People call horses old from as young as 17/18 up to 30's. When I say dying I mean the body is starting to shut down.

 

However, if a horse is dying and quite clearly has lost its appetite and is dropping weight dramtically and there was nothing I could do, I'd let it go. I'd make the call and put it down.