The Horse Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so I'm a little aggitated. My husband, friend, and friend's wife were sitting around discussing what could happen if the slaughter ban was lifted according to state's discretion. My friend has worked for the last 20 years at building his very successful program, and the subject of the market obviously came out. The friend's wife (of 6 years) stated outright and bluntly, "There's no market for middle-class horses. We raise middle-class horses." To my dismay, she didn't notice the look of shock on my friend's face... the look of offense, "Did you really just say that?"

It hurt my feelings for my friend that his wife would insensitively say such a thing. My friend was obviously hurt, but maybe it just takes a horse-person to know where the boundary is?

Would you take offense to something like this? I mean, I would have felt out of place confronting the situation, but would it really be wrong to feel like she was wrong and out of place herself?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Is she wrong? Some horses are middle class. They aren't the high dollar championship caliber horses but they aren't the junk type either. If it's true then I wouldn't be offended. If I had multiple world championships and very very high dollar horses then I guess I might be troubled.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,624 Posts
Not a darn thing wrong with middle class. I'm a proud member :D Not everyone can or wants to have a high dollar horse. I see her point, in this economy and with the pooring of the middle, but thats to political to get into here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I can see why you would take offence to that... I might too. But was what she said true? Most people are not very good at judging their own program. I walked through a lot of herds with the horse owners, they all think they have the best thing since sliced bread, 99 percent of them are dead wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I, too, am a middle-class owner. But do you think it's fair to discredit something someone's worked their tail off for? My friend feels he has the best that he could ever ask to afford and have, and for his wife to be on a different page? I know that 3 of his stallions have at the very least 2 ROM in SOMETHING. They're definitely not junk, but they're not necessarily affordable, either!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No, they're not the current/popular names at the moment, but they are the cherished names of past champions that are to never be forgotten! That's for sure!

There's a lot of foundation blood, mixed with a little bit of early 2000's popularity. We're talking Gold Fingers, Mr San Peppy, Doc Tari, Blue Valentine, Three Bars, Traveler, Skipper W, etc. On papers, of course...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,349 Posts
That is just it and part of the problem. If what he has is middle class horses and he dose not realize this then he is going to have a problem marketing them. Also I have found that people who think that their low class horses are middle class and middle class horses are upper level horses have a hard time moving forward and improving.

There is nothing wrong with MC horses but if that is what you have then do one of 2 things. Live with it and do not take offense to it or improve. Sometimes honesty is what people need in their breeding program.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
Where I'm from, people aren't into the foundation lines. A few are, but not very many - definitely not enough to breed them in hopes of making any money - so it may just be where they're located. For instance, I'd have an easier time selling an Arabian 50 miles north or in Illinois, than I would a quarter horse. In ranch country, they wouldn't look twice at a pleasure horse because it's not what they're looking for.

So if they are having a hard time marketing their horses - they need to advertise outside of their box, and get hooked up with associations in their state to help spread the word.

Edit: AND... Exactly HOW are they advertising? In a tough market, you need quality photos that aren't of Daisy grazing in the pasture or the uberly cute thing she does with her ears. You have to have every advantage possible, and it could be poor marketing on their part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Who the heck wants to classify their horse? Classes are defined by financial status. Horses are owned by low class, middle class, or high class people. Horses are horses, they aren't keeping tabs on status. So I could see why you would find it offensive. She basically called you "middle class."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
I think like a lot of you are saying is right, most people think they have something that is worth a lot more money than it really is. I own what most people would call a 'junk' horse. She's 11 years old half perchon and half paint with no papers that I bought for $300 off a lady that couldn't afford to keep her any more. I've gone on trail rides with people that had a lot more money than me in their horses, then Gypsy and I stood there and watched their high dollar, well bred, professionally trained horse act like an idiot.

That said, if I tried to sell Gypsy, she is a 'junk' horse, and I'd probably only get $300 to $500 for her. Noone would want her. Most people that can afford to feed, shoe, and care for a horse would spend the extra money to get something 'better'. I have never found a better horse, she does exactely what I want her to do.

Long story short, There's nothing wrong with having middle class or lower middle class horses, as long as you realise this and are willing to admit it. I also usually don't pay attention to what horse 'experts' say when talking about stuff like this, most of them seem to have no idea what they're talking about. I just agree with them and enjoy my junk horse when they're not around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,349 Posts
Who the heck wants to classify their horse? Classes are defined by financial status. Horses are owned by low class, middle class, or high class people. Horses are horses, they aren't keeping tabs on status. So I could see why you would find it offensive. She basically called you "middle class."

First what is wrong with being middle class???

As to horses not being in different classes. I have to disagree with that. They may not keep track if it however there are definitely different class of horses. The price they can command shows that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,320 Posts
I agree with Reiner, horses come in different classes. I have at least one from every class out in my pasture right now. I have everything from working low class mustangs to former upper class winning show horses and everything in between. Me, I'm middle class but not all my horses are.

As for the type of program the guy has, I would have to see what caliber of horses he was turning out. Are they showing or winning at anything? Are they excelling at anything even if they aren't showing; ranch work, trail riding, etc.? Bloodlines are nice but they don't always make a horse. I have seen some really well bred horses that I wouldn't throw my saddle on for all the rice in china and I have a mutt of a horse that I wouldn't sell for all the money in the world. So there are a lot of variables here to consider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,016 Posts
I think like a lot of you are saying is right, most people think they have something that is worth a lot more money than it really is. I own what most people would call a 'junk' horse. She's 11 years old half perchon and half paint with no papers that I bought for $300 off a lady that couldn't afford to keep her any more. I've gone on trail rides with people that had a lot more money than me in their horses, then Gypsy and I stood there and watched their high dollar, well bred, professionally trained horse act like an idiot.

That said, if I tried to sell Gypsy, she is a 'junk' horse, and I'd probably only get $300 to $500 for her. Noone would want her. Most people that can afford to feed, shoe, and care for a horse would spend the extra money to get something 'better'. I have never found a better horse, she does exactely what I want her to do.

Long story short, There's nothing wrong with having middle class or lower middle class horses, as long as you realise this and are willing to admit it. I also usually don't pay attention to what horse 'experts' say when talking about stuff like this, most of them seem to have no idea what they're talking about. I just agree with them and enjoy my junk horse when they're not around.
Don't sell Gypsy short. Not everyone looks for papers or purebreds. The most expensive part of a good using horse is the training. So if you have a well behaved, reasonably trained trail horse, I find that MUCH more desirable than something that has papers or looks but no manners or training. And I would love to have a draft cross! I spent $2000 for a BLM Mustang because he was a well trained, wonderful trail horse, and to get another horse like him I would gladly pay that much all over again (or more!)

I really wish you COULD put a price on a good horse, then you would know how much you have to pay to get a decent horse. As it stands right now, someone could give you a wonderful horse for free, or a few hundred dollars, OR you could spend thousands and get a raving lunatic. I wish I knew the secret formula for paying "X" and getting a good trail horse in return!

As some folks are fond of saying, "you don't ride the papers!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
As some folks are fond of saying, "you don't ride the papers!"
I like this quote. Even with papers nothing is guaranteed. There are allot of "top dollar" horses out there that I wont spend $10 for.
In my eyes worth is on training. When I see how much some people pay for a horse that kicks, bites, rears, or bucks all I can do is shake my head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Middle Class or Mid Priced?

Could it be an issue of semantics here? I don't know the mentality of those in the horse market wherever this conversation took place, but it seems that people either want to pay next to nothing for a horse or spend a fortune for one. A friend of mine trains and sells horses and he sees that alot. He picked up a horse for nothing that looked to have potential as jumper, did a little training with it and tried to resell it for $1000. He received a few calls about it but no-one wanted it. He checked what schooling jumpers in his area were selling for, changed the price to $10,000 and it sold very quickly. Some people only want a deal regardless of the quality of the animal, and some people want to brag about how much their horse cost I guess.

Anyway, I don't know the quality of the horses accused of being "middle-class", not that that is an insult as far as I am concerned, but if these horses do not sell for either top-dollar or bottom-dollar for their market/breed/discipline then they are middle class horses by the market definition of it anyway. All of my horses are "upper class" in my eyes, but I also realize that by the market definition they would be middle to low class.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
I admire her honesty. No need to stroke someone's ego by lying. Middle class would mean nice horses but you don't see them competing at the top circuits and winning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,740 Posts
Also I have found that people who think that their low class horses are middle class and middle class horses are upper level horses have a hard time moving forward and improving.
Very true. for me its quite the opposite. I dont push my horses hard enough :p

Most people have middle class horses. Maybe she means middle class as middle quality? Very few have high class horses, because the market dictates they are more valuable. And well lets face it, most horse owners arent made of money.

If you have a somewhat decent horse, who performs well, I would consider them middle class. For PSG horses I would consider them above middle class, because they are great performers, and above average. Low class horses are going to have alot of defaults and training issues. I think some horses can raise classes depending on the training, but some never can. My mare will never be high class, shes got some good lines in her papers, but shes got navicular and is unridable. My qh is definatly middle class, to low class. He's got almost no training, and was dirt cheep. He will hopefully rise to middle class/middle quality once hes got professional training.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
There is always a market for a well trained horse with a good temperament, regardless of papers. I have been offered good money for a horse that I saved from the lowliest of environments. He is not much to look at but when you see him stop when the little seven year old riding him barely whispers "whoa" you know he's golden (I can't sell him). It is hard to sell babies, or unbroke older horses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,349 Posts
Now I do not have a hard time selling babies/foals or even yearlings to long yearlings. That is actually my best market is long yearlings.

Since the OP was talking about this persons program I am thinking they are talking more of a breeding program and what I have found a lot of the time is that a lot of breeders can not afford to keep their foals so they let them go cheep or perhaps less then what they THINK they should get b/c they need to move them. To me these are the breeders who need to stop and rethink what they are doing. Dose not mean their program is good or bad but needs some thought put into it. Might be horses marketing or both.

So when you are talking prospects breeding has a lot to do with what a foal will bring. It also had to do with how people will look at these horses and who will buy them and for how much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Now I do not have a hard time selling babies/foals or even yearlings to long yearlings. That is actually my best market is long yearlings.
NRHAREINER would you consider your horses middle class? Just curious
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top