I have been reading this forum for awhile, but never posted anything until today. Today I feel INCREDIBLE sadness as I found out that my horse chased, cornered, attacked and killed my brother's mare. In the past, at other barns he would try to attack other horses, so eventually he was placed in his own paddock. My brother who lives out of state offered to bring him to his farm to enjoy the huge beautiful pastures that he has. After some time, my brother decided to place him with several of his mares in a large pasture-no problems at all for over a year until today. I bought this horse about 6 years ago. He was a rescue horse-a Saddlebred. As far as riding...he had a "switch"- really good or really bad. Over the years that I owned him, his behavior while riding improved overall. A horse killing anther horse...I have never heard of this...this is so abnormal. I love this horse so much, but I am afraid he could hurt someone. This is a terrible situation. Has anyone experienced anything like this?
Today my horse killed another horse
FWDequine
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I'm sorry, but it sounds like this may be "one of those horses". Even if kept secluded for the rest of his life, there's always the risk of him escaping....someone mistakenly turning him out with other horses. You have to weight the risks and ask yourself if it's really best to keep him alive. So sorry you have to go through this.
When we moved to the farm about six years ago among th horses my grandfather bought me were some Saddlers. Among them was an eighteen year old Saddler Stallion, a son of Ben Gurion. A stunning animal. With a reputation for killing any other male horse he can sink his teeth in. He thankfully came with a mare, a half sister to whom he was extremely attached, so I just made sure I kept the two of them in a seperate camp away from my other horses. Thankfully the farm is divided into several camps, so it was relatively easy, and he never showed any aggression towards mares, once or twice I would put another mare in with him and Lady and like clockwork 11 months later you would have a souvenier. Then his Lady died. At 20 years of age and with a threemonth old filly at foot, one morning she did not come down to the water. We found her lying dead in the veld from no apparent cause. Now I had a problem, what to do with old Ben? Thenkfully salvation came in the form of a Saddler breeder who originally wanted to buy the mare, but was willing to take the stallion of my hands. He has the facilities to handle him and last I heard he had succesfully fathered several more foals and were living as good a life as is possible.
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Just a few comments. I don't have huge experience with horses, so you can decide if they are relevant...
1 - I've frequently met DOGS who were aggressive toward other dogs, or people, but not both. I've owned a number of dogs who would give their lives without question fighting a dog to protect their people, but who would rather die than ever hurt a person. A 65 lb shepherd mix is now living with my oldest daughter. He is an outstanding guard dog, and he once placed himself between my wife and an aggressive 180 Rottweiler in a stance that clearly said, "You'll have to kill me first" - but if a baby pokes him in the face, he just hides his face.
If horses treated people the way they treat themselves, we would never be able to ride. They would just beat the tar out of us and go back to eating.
2 - Some horses develop hatred for another horse. I sold a mare in Dec 2010 because Trooper hated her, and she hated him. And it was only getting worse. Both got along fine with other horses, but would look for a chance to attack the other one. Trooper was heavier and could win, but Lilly developed a dislike for him that turned into mutual hatred.
She was uncommonly good with every other horse she met, and is now sharing a corral with 2 other horses. We share a trainer & a farrier with the new owners, and I'm told they think she is the best horse they have met. And without her, Trooper does well.
3 - That said, I'm not big on taking chances. Last December, we were given a mustang pony. Small enough for a child to mount, but strong enough to gallop easily with my 175 lbs on his back. He is sure-footed and level headed. The equine dentist, after working on his teeth, offered to buy him on the spot for her nieces. And if I wanted a 4th horse, I'm sure I could have another one free within a week.
If I had a dog that was truly aggressive toward other dogs - who would seek them out to kill them - I'd shoot him ASAP. I've known people who keep dogs like that for years because they were good around people, but I'm not one of them. I ended up with a 3rd dog after one followed my brother-in-law home from the desert. The dog is playful, very loving, and is the gentlest dog I've ever met around babies. Why would I want to take a chance on a dog that kills other dogs - even just once?
I feel the same about horses. If it was a valuable stud, I might put up with it. If I was in to a particular sport, and the horse was awesome at it...I'd figure out how to deal with it. But for just riding? Not a chance! I wouldn't know how to live with myself if there was a repeat killing...
1 - I've frequently met DOGS who were aggressive toward other dogs, or people, but not both. I've owned a number of dogs who would give their lives without question fighting a dog to protect their people, but who would rather die than ever hurt a person. A 65 lb shepherd mix is now living with my oldest daughter. He is an outstanding guard dog, and he once placed himself between my wife and an aggressive 180 Rottweiler in a stance that clearly said, "You'll have to kill me first" - but if a baby pokes him in the face, he just hides his face.
If horses treated people the way they treat themselves, we would never be able to ride. They would just beat the tar out of us and go back to eating.
2 - Some horses develop hatred for another horse. I sold a mare in Dec 2010 because Trooper hated her, and she hated him. And it was only getting worse. Both got along fine with other horses, but would look for a chance to attack the other one. Trooper was heavier and could win, but Lilly developed a dislike for him that turned into mutual hatred.
She was uncommonly good with every other horse she met, and is now sharing a corral with 2 other horses. We share a trainer & a farrier with the new owners, and I'm told they think she is the best horse they have met. And without her, Trooper does well.
3 - That said, I'm not big on taking chances. Last December, we were given a mustang pony. Small enough for a child to mount, but strong enough to gallop easily with my 175 lbs on his back. He is sure-footed and level headed. The equine dentist, after working on his teeth, offered to buy him on the spot for her nieces. And if I wanted a 4th horse, I'm sure I could have another one free within a week.
If I had a dog that was truly aggressive toward other dogs - who would seek them out to kill them - I'd shoot him ASAP. I've known people who keep dogs like that for years because they were good around people, but I'm not one of them. I ended up with a 3rd dog after one followed my brother-in-law home from the desert. The dog is playful, very loving, and is the gentlest dog I've ever met around babies. Why would I want to take a chance on a dog that kills other dogs - even just once?
I feel the same about horses. If it was a valuable stud, I might put up with it. If I was in to a particular sport, and the horse was awesome at it...I'd figure out how to deal with it. But for just riding? Not a chance! I wouldn't know how to live with myself if there was a repeat killing...
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Is he agelding? I must have missedthat part.
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I think others have given you some good advise so I'm not going to repeat it.
Something that goes through my mind as I read this is- what is going on inside this horse's head to cause him to behave this way. Whatever it is it, it might be something that tourments him, or causes him to be a "tortured soul" if one could put a human inflection on it.
You said he had a "switch" of sorts, and it seems there are other red flags about this horse.
As owners of animals, sometimes we have to make tough choices for our animals because they can't make those choices for themselves.
Sometimes euthanasia really is the kindest choice we can make.
Terrible wounds and injuries can certainly make euthanasia the obvious choice at times of trauma, but as owners we sometimes need to make the same choice for inner injuries or trauma because it may be the right thing to do for the animal.
:hug:Hugs. It is a difficult place to be in.
Something that goes through my mind as I read this is- what is going on inside this horse's head to cause him to behave this way. Whatever it is it, it might be something that tourments him, or causes him to be a "tortured soul" if one could put a human inflection on it.
You said he had a "switch" of sorts, and it seems there are other red flags about this horse.
As owners of animals, sometimes we have to make tough choices for our animals because they can't make those choices for themselves.
Sometimes euthanasia really is the kindest choice we can make.
Terrible wounds and injuries can certainly make euthanasia the obvious choice at times of trauma, but as owners we sometimes need to make the same choice for inner injuries or trauma because it may be the right thing to do for the animal.
:hug:Hugs. It is a difficult place to be in.
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I would also have to agree with most of the posters. Putting her down is the only sure way to prevent her from hurting others again. You never know next time it could be a person, and you could end up with a law suit.
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OP, I am so very sorry that this happened to you. It must of been very traumatic.
I, also, have had this sort of situation to deal with, but with a donkey. Donkeys, ofcourse- are wired differently from horses, but the reason was still the same. This particular donkey, Angelo, was a part of our small petting zoo that we had on our farm and that we brought to parades and events. He was a very mellow animal, minus the trademark stubborness.
Well one day he got out of his pen when one of our volunteers went to get his companion for work. He ran out, jumped into one our our miniature horse mare's pastures, and promptly zeroed in on our tiny 2 day old colt. He savagely attacked him, and would of killed him if the BO's son had not bravely (and in retrospect, probably rashly) jumped in and grabbed the colt out of the way. The donkey didn't stop there though, and when the colt was not in reach he turned on the boy and grabbed him arm and face, tearing the boys arm up so badly that he was in the ICU for two weeks and has permanent and severe scarring on his neck, face, and arm. The donkey was promptly shot by our BO. We couldn't risk the donkey doing something even nearly as bad again, with us running a therapy center for children.
Having said that, I think that if you feel like there is ANY chance that this gelding will act agressively against people, or you have no way to pasture him completely solitarily, kill him. An agressive horse is not often seen, but it is extremely dangerous, especially after having the satisfaction if victory.
I, also, have had this sort of situation to deal with, but with a donkey. Donkeys, ofcourse- are wired differently from horses, but the reason was still the same. This particular donkey, Angelo, was a part of our small petting zoo that we had on our farm and that we brought to parades and events. He was a very mellow animal, minus the trademark stubborness.
Well one day he got out of his pen when one of our volunteers went to get his companion for work. He ran out, jumped into one our our miniature horse mare's pastures, and promptly zeroed in on our tiny 2 day old colt. He savagely attacked him, and would of killed him if the BO's son had not bravely (and in retrospect, probably rashly) jumped in and grabbed the colt out of the way. The donkey didn't stop there though, and when the colt was not in reach he turned on the boy and grabbed him arm and face, tearing the boys arm up so badly that he was in the ICU for two weeks and has permanent and severe scarring on his neck, face, and arm. The donkey was promptly shot by our BO. We couldn't risk the donkey doing something even nearly as bad again, with us running a therapy center for children.
Having said that, I think that if you feel like there is ANY chance that this gelding will act agressively against people, or you have no way to pasture him completely solitarily, kill him. An agressive horse is not often seen, but it is extremely dangerous, especially after having the satisfaction if victory.
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Id say have him put down sounds like he just to dangerous to keep around he doesnt sound like hes to safe to ride either. I own a gelding who cannot be with other horses hes mean and will beat the tar out of them. But there have been times he got into the corral with my mare and gelding and all three standing side by side eating hay. Hes also a wonderful riding horse never mean under saddle. I think over the years hes gotten better i see him playing over the fence with my gelding.
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This is where the mindset of "humanizing" horses can be very dangerous. I encourage you to remember that this is an animal. A very large and powerful animal, who was doing something natural to it's standards as I believe Cherie pointed out. It may a little extreme to normal horse behavior BUT the animal was doing what horses do protect it's territory or challenge other horses for it's top spot. It may just be a series of unfortunate events such as he cornered the mare and she was killed trying to escape such as the others posted ex. impaled on posts ect. Whatever happened try to stay logical. Do I think it will turn it's aggressiveness towards people...probably not...BUT knowing that it can bully a horse to death it could turn on people....nothing is impossible. I just think that I wouldn't personally want that sort of responsibility walking around on 4 legs. Knowing that if he ever escaped, or got accidently turned over to new owners who promised NOT to put him in with other horses ect...and they did...he could and would very likely repeat this behavior because it worked in the past. I know it may seem sad, or as if you somehow failed, BUT you did not. This is a freak occurance on a horse that is not "normal". This is not your fault, this is not your brothers fault...this is just one of those sad lessons in the power, strength, and capabilities of this creature. I would encourage you to consider putting him down and finding another horse. There are far too many good, well mannered horses out there that need good homes to keep this one. I know it may seem sad BUT I bet you will actually feel a sense of relief in letting him go in the only way you can GUARENTEE this will never happen again.
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Wow. I'm 99.9% certain that this horse was once boarded at my place & I am friends with the owner. The description & circumstances are too dead on for me to be wrong.
If this is the same horse & I'm sure it is, he came here with behavior issues which were easily resolved but he was a ticking time bomb with other horses. He had his own turnout & pasture & was very well behaved-alone.
I was worried when he left that he would fool people into believing that he would be OK in a group.
I'm so sorry this happened.
If this is the same horse & I'm sure it is, he came here with behavior issues which were easily resolved but he was a ticking time bomb with other horses. He had his own turnout & pasture & was very well behaved-alone.
I was worried when he left that he would fool people into believing that he would be OK in a group.
I'm so sorry this happened.
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Sometimes things just get so broke you can't fix them. This kind of behaviour is one of those times. I'm surprised your brother didn't euthanize the horse right then and tell you about it later, he'd have been well within his rights. I'm sorry to say that I would euthanize the horse, ESPECIALLY since you cannot keep him on your own property. It's one thing if he kills all your own horses, but to allow him to kill other's horses.....not good.
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Horses see people as part of their herd. Hopefully they accept our dominance without question. On occasion, a horse may challenge our position of authority. My 25 year old retired gelding decided to challenge me and kicked me. I proceeded to remind him (whip in hand) that I am above him in the dominance hierarchy. If he were more aggressive, would I be here today? I would be scared of a horse that chased down and killed another horse. The poster just before me asked the question as to whether he for sure did the deed. That is a good question.
When you say 'cornered', do you mean literally in a corner of the pasture? If that is the case, part of the problem might have been that the mare was chased but couldn't get away. Right angle corners aren't all that safe for horses.
A big gelding (17 h) at my riding school used to be aggressive to other horses but nice with people; he calmed down and became good with the others over a couple of years.
A big gelding (17 h) at my riding school used to be aggressive to other horses but nice with people; he calmed down and became good with the others over a couple of years.
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Sorry, but your brother created the dangerous situation by putting your horse in with his mare. You told him the horse was aggressive with other horses. He chose not to believe you. Sad for the mare, but I don't think your brother can come back now saying your horse should be killed over a situation your brother created.
Some horses can't be pastured with other horses. I've known several. They're just fine with people and would never show aggression to another horse while under saddle. But in turnout, they're aggressive to other horses. *shrugs* Not hard to fix. The feed store sells fence all day long.
Some horses can't be pastured with other horses. I've known several. They're just fine with people and would never show aggression to another horse while under saddle. But in turnout, they're aggressive to other horses. *shrugs* Not hard to fix. The feed store sells fence all day long.
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I agree with this to a point. If she plans on keeping the horse forever, it's not an issue IF she wants to deal with it. But if the horse got out or they decided to sell the horse... It's a difficult situation. You could tell the buyers that he doesn't do well with other horses, they put him with some anyway, and this happens again.
I hate to say it so plainly, but is the horse worth keeping alive? Is it trainable, is it good under saddle with other horses NO EXCEPTION, do you ride it often, does it have a job? Or is it a pasture ornament that doesn't get much attention or exercise? How is it with dominance and other people?
If it's a cranky pasture ornament that needs special attention and care, I think it might be best to have him put down and replace him with one of the many well mannered horses that desperately need homes and don't have a behavioral issue that is impossible to actually fix. I'm not trying to be callous, but this isn't his first offense, just the most severe. Your brother is within his rights to request you put him down.
Unless he is stellar under saddle, he isn't paying his way and is a detriment to other horses.
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Just an update. This is the horse & owner I thought it was. I have just talked to her at length.
This horse lived with me about 3 years & I have seen him attack. Each time I was able to intervene but it was pretty scary & dangerous.
The owner lives here in WI & sent him to live with her brother in KY in a retirement situation. The brother was warned to not trust the horse.
This horse is not looking to dominate but to kill & he finally did- a very pregnant mare that he had been out with for almost a year.
There is no pasture big enough, he takes the inside circle & attacks until the victim horse has no options. He is really good or really bad & there is no known etiology for the bad. He's has had extensive work-ups.
It is unfair to ask her brother to keep a horse like that. He can also be unpredictable when ridden. A switch seems to go off & you can never tell when it will happen.
The owner has decided to let him go. This is very hard for her but after 6 years she has tried all she can.
This horse lived with me about 3 years & I have seen him attack. Each time I was able to intervene but it was pretty scary & dangerous.
The owner lives here in WI & sent him to live with her brother in KY in a retirement situation. The brother was warned to not trust the horse.
This horse is not looking to dominate but to kill & he finally did- a very pregnant mare that he had been out with for almost a year.
There is no pasture big enough, he takes the inside circle & attacks until the victim horse has no options. He is really good or really bad & there is no known etiology for the bad. He's has had extensive work-ups.
It is unfair to ask her brother to keep a horse like that. He can also be unpredictable when ridden. A switch seems to go off & you can never tell when it will happen.
The owner has decided to let him go. This is very hard for her but after 6 years she has tried all she can.
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