The Horse Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I love horses as much as anybody else but in this country there is a very real problem of over-population and no way to reduce the population. In 1880 there were 6.9 million horses in the U.S. In 1999 when horse slaughter really came under fire there were 6.9 million horses in the U.S. The U.S. horse herd in 2008 is a whopping 9.8 million horses due in large part to the closing of slaughter plants. It is only a matter of time before there is such a crisis in this country that horse wellfare will be endangered even more than it is now.

As bad as the overall picture is for horses the outlook on the most poorly managed demographic is even grimmer. The BLM determined that the carrying capacity for horses on public land is 24,000. The estimated number of wild horses on public lands in 2009 is 38,000 with another 31,000 in long term holding. Including death loss there is a 20 percent increase every year (13,800 horses). The answer of course is adoption but the maximum number of horses adopted per year is 3,500.

My point with all this is that not only should people have the right to send thier horses to slaughter but it is quickly becoming an economic and enviromental necessity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,738 Posts
I agree with you to some extent... I think the thing that really gets me about slaughter and the like is that there aren't any quality controls for the horses that do go to slaughter. I can totally see letting unsound, truly unwanted horses go to slaughter but there are so many really quality horses being sent to slaughter that it just kills me on the inside.

I mean, my two true heart horses, my soul mates in equine bodies, were both bound for death because no one wanted them. One, a little POA show pony (who was obviously a child's show packer before the child perhaps outgrew him or something) was on his way to slaughter. He was bought off the kill buyer by the outfitter for my camp and I got a chance to work with him. I discovered that he was/is actually one of the most well trained horses I've ever had the pleasure to work with. He really had no place on the kill buyer's truck or in the auction house. The oldest he could have been was 15 and if his previous owners had taken the time to find him a good home he could have spent the rest of his days being a really great lesson pony or the pony a child learns to show on, but no, he's now destined to cart annoying children down trails and be ridden by full grown men (this is a 13hh, at most, light pony that probably doesn't weigh more than 700lbs) until he breaks down. He'll probably go "crazy" within the next few years, I already saw it coming out last summer, the pain of ill fitting saddles and the monotony have not been good to his smart, sassy, little pony brain. That kills me. That talent and possibility going "poof" when horses that aren't trained worth junk are just lazing in pastures. It just hurts me inside.

And then, Lacey, she was about a week away from being put down because she was "crazy" when I got her. Now that's not slaughter of course but my soul mate's life was about to be snuffed out. I got her and I'm lucky and a better person for it, but if some horse that should be on a slaughter truck/put down had been, she might have found a good home sooner. And within my criteria, at the time I got her, she would have been one that I'd say "send her to slaughter!" I will give you that. But now? I really can't think of a horse that's more solid and reliable than she is.

I guess the thing that I'm trying to get out is that if more horses are sent to slaughter, perfect horses that could be the teachers of the next generation of riders could be in danger of dying because their current owners are dumb.

Of course, I know it's impossible for absolutely everyone not to breed for a year or two but I wish that's what would happen. I'm not anti-slaughter, I'm just anti-slaughter of horses that deserve to live because of their training/sensible-ness etc should keep them off the death train.

Maybe this all makes no sense, hopefully it makes a smidge of sense...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,348 Posts
I think most people know the statistics. What I want is to see a plan of action, from both pro-slaughter and anti-slaughter viewpoints as to what we should do next, because at this point both sides are all talk and little action. Saying "we need more slaughter plants" or "we need better breeding regulations" are vague and unsatisfactory answers. Both do not explain the details and finances needed. When we have a detailed action plan from both sides, we can truly look at the issue and find out which is the better option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,738 Posts
I think most people know the statistics. What I want is to see a plan of action, from both pro-slaughter and anti-slaughter viewpoints as to what we should do next, because at this point both sides are all talk and little action. Saying "we need more slaughter plants" or "we need better breeding regulations" are vague and unsatisfactory answers. Both do not explain the details and finances needed.
That is so true! I concur completely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
A plan of action is easy. Regulate horse slaughter the same way any other slaughter is regulated. the government doesn't need to do anything but get out of the way. New processing plants means new jobs and increased revenue for local, state and federal governments. More regional plants mean less stress on the animals during shipping. Less stress on rescues and fewer neglected and abandoned animals. There are 300 abandoned horses running between Riverside California and the mountains east of LA. People all over the world will have more access to nutricious meat including many ethnic populations in the U.S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,916 Posts
I can't lay out any fancy plans of action because I'm just no good at that, so I can leave that up to someone else. All I know is that elsewhere when your supply gets to be higher than your demand, the answer generally is not to keep on cranking them out then destroy the excess. I feel like that should be only more true for our equine friends. Just my two cents and I'll leave it at that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,348 Posts
You have to remember that towns near new slaughter plants will most likely be quite unhappy, as this is part of what got horse slaughter in the first place. Expect protests even before the plants are even put in place. What scale of slaughter houses? Where is the money coming from to finance these? Also, environmental regulations can make things difficult. Horses are often fed medications that specifically say on the container that they cannot be fed to animals intended for consumption, so each individual horse carcass would need to be drug tested. When horses are slaughtered, you have to remember where this meat was going. It was going to restaurants in Europe and Asia as a luxury, not a staple. If we want a staple for starving people, we should be looking at GMO golden rice. More sustainable than a meat, easier and cheaper, can be stored for longer/easier transport. You would also have to launch advertising campaigns if you wanted to get Americans to consume horse meat at a constant rate, this would also cause immense protest and take even more money. As a country, we already eat too much meat and too little grain/vegetables. etc etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There are actually several industries where they destroy the excess when they overproduce But the horses are not being destroyed they are being used for food. Destoying a horse would be to euthanize it and dump it in a hole in the ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You have to remember that towns near new slaughter plants will most likely be quite unhappy, as this is part of what got horse slaughter in the first place. Expect protests even before the plants are even put in place. What scale of slaughter houses? Where is the money coming from to finance these? Also, environmental regulations can make things difficult. Horses are often fed medications that specifically say on the container that they cannot be fed to animals intended for consumption, so each individual horse carcass would need to be drug tested. When horses are slaughtered, you have to remember where this meat was going. It was going to restaurants in Europe and Asia as a luxury, not a staple. If we want a staple for starving people, we should be looking at GMO golden rice. More sustainable than a meat, easier and cheaper, can be stored for longer/easier transport. You would also have to launch advertising campaigns if you wanted to get Americans to consume horse meat at a constant rate, this would also cause immense protest and take even more money. As a country, we already eat too much and too little grain/vegetables. etc etc.
The towns will not be unhappy to have new jobs in this economy.

The scale and the money to finance will come from private industry.

You don't have to drug test every carcass because most horses go to a feedlot and are kept there to be fed up to a good wieght just like cattle.

The meat is a staple in many countries. Your facts are not quite correct. Some cuts of meat are more expensive than others just like with any other type of meat.

Americans eat alot of grains they are just processed and mixed with a bunch of sugar. Go to your cupbourd and pull out any 5 food items and I bet 3 of them contain flour.

Prior to WW2 horsemeat was commonly consumed in this country but cattleman used very good marketing to disparrage horsemeat as unfit for consumption and stole a large portion of the market share. In the 1940's the issue wasn't animal rights it was market share and profits. I don't know that Americans would ever consume a large amount of horsemeat but there are ethnic communities that certainly would consume some. Eastern europeans that live in the upper midwest and polynesians that live in utah are two but there are many others.

The problem with Americans diet is lack of exercise and excess of fad diets not eating too much meat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,348 Posts
Really? As I said, a major contribution to the initial banning of horse slaughter was unhappy towns. It makes little sense to say that it won't happen again.

You cannot verify the location and record of every horse that goes to slaughter. As you stated, 'most'. Most is a vague term.

Facts disagree with you. Cancer researchers say Americans eat too much meat. | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com
70% of Americans eat too much meat. The average vegetarian or vegan is 10-20 pounds lighter than a typical meat eater, therefore over meat consumption can be linked to being overweight and being unhealthy. GoVeg.com // Health Issues // Obesity and Weight Loss

The grains in cookies are not adequate grains. I was referring to complex carbohydrates/whole grains such as oatmeal.

WW2? We're talking about an environment where horse slaughter was banned quite recently. What happened in the 1940's is irrelevant as it is not the same scenario.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ten years ago the citizens of my town would not have been real happy about a processing plant coming to town but in the last two years the two biggest employers have cut about 3000 jobs. Now the feeling would be the bigger the better and learn to live with it. Most processing plants now have very little smell and to drive past one you may not even know what it was. there would be nothing to be upset about. Even the protesters have to eat and sleep somewhere.

They test alot of beef carcasses and it happens quite quickly and cheaply. It would present no problem for horse processors to test each carcass.

The average vegan may be lighter but they also have a greater instance of anemia and vitamin deficencies. Also they tend to exercise more and are younger. I doubt that GoVeg.com can be called an impartial source.

At any rate I don't think anybody should be forced to eat horsemeatbut the fact is that there is a real crisis and the government is not going to be able to regulate us out of it. Breeding regulations would take alot of money and is unconstitutional and would not solve the problem for many many years if at all. If the gov gets out of the way of meat processors then the number of horses would be reduced much quicker.

If you listen to what cancer researchers say you willl doe of starvation because everything causes cancer. I read recently that eating burnt toast can cause cancer. If you can't even eat toast what chance do you have?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,348 Posts
Burnt toast. Any sort of black char is unhealthy. Normal toast is fine. I'm more certain of what cancer researchers have to say about health than your opinions, simply because they are a more reliable source as they have done actual research. You do not have enough research to verify that the claims you have made in a pro-slaughter action plan would be functional and successful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So what's your solution?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,348 Posts
Don't have one. I'm just critiquing them. If they can't stand up well to a meager inquiry by me, they won't go easily through the government :lol: I haven't seen enough of both sides to form a proper idea either way. Research that could be done to support a pro-slaughter standpoint would be a consensus sample of how many people in a town would be alright with a slaughter house near them, how many people are willing to eat horse meat in America, evidence that stacks against the anti-slaughter viewpoint and more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
All I'm saying is that the federal government should lift the roadblocks and let the effected communities decide if they want a processing plant. It would help aliviate the strain on resources that unwanted horses have. Many (even most) communities wouldn't want a plant but there would be some that would welcome the economic effects of one and it would cost the federal government very very little. I really don't care if the meat stays here or goes overseas, the market would dictate that as well. The safeguards for the meat is already in place and being used in Canada and the same ones could be used here. If slaughter was not a viable business then the government wouldn't have had to interfere to put a stop to it.

Our government can't figure out how to keep thier 40,000 horses from breeding how in the world are they going to regulate the 10 million owned by private citizens?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
im about to serve dinner so i havent had a chance to read all replies before posting but i feel the need to post MO.

personally i loathe the thought of any animal being slaughtered whether its a horse, a pig or a goat. im a vegetarian for obvious reasons however...i sadly, do understand the need for slaughter. i live in australia and while we have 'knackeries' as they are called here, there isnt the problem here that there is in the U.S. with regards to the number of horses going to slaughter.

while my hearts breaks at the thought of slaughter i do understand the need for it. however, as already mentioned in the post i did read, there is a need to address the issue about the treatment of animals destined for the killing floor. that in reality is what breaks my heart the most. we are truly blessed to have these majestic, powerful, beautiful animals in our life. most of us dont earn it but in most cases we have the unconditional love of these creatures. and then to treat them how they are is..unjust, unfair, cruel, cold hearted and abominable.

that to me is the issue. im not so closed minded that i cant understand that there are some cases where slaughter is needed on many levels but its the bottom line that upsets the minions. bottom line is animal cruelty. its not about slaughter its about absolute cruelty and thats where the heartbreak comes from.

i appreciate that my country still has slaughter houses and that we dont see the cruelty here that other countries do however even though i live in australia, you would be surprised how much we hear about the U.S. to the point where we might as well live there considering everything is about what happens over there or who did what over there. i doubt though that we will ever see these issues here and i dont mean that in an offensive way but i do mean that im glad i dont have to see these pictures of slaughter bound horses or horses at slaughter going through what they do here in my own country.

anyways, off track. yes i do understand the need for it but no, i dont understand the need for the cruelty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,166 Posts
While I understand and agree with the idea of slaughter, I think that it is only one step in the process of eliminating unwanted horses. We have an excess of horses for a lot of reasons and unless we get to the root cause, slaughter is the only solution.

The root of the matter is in excess breeding and land development. While there is little that we can do about development (although the economy has done a lot to curtail it for now), what we need to address is the breeding of horses that no one wants.

So ... while slaughter can take care of the immediate need, how to we take care of the long range problem? Realistically, it is over population that causes the need for slaughter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
The average vegan may be lighter but they also have a greater instance of anemia and vitamin deficencies. Also they tend to exercise more and are younger. I doubt that GoVeg.com can be called an impartial source.
sorry for the double post but i did just see this. kevin you have joined since i was last really active on here and while i find your posts a little blunt they are always honest and i appreciate that. however, in this instance i must disagree with your above mentioned comment. being a vegetarian bordering on vegan i find this comment generalised and a little misguided. MOST vegetarians/vegans are aware of the lacking iron, calcium etc in their diets. a good vegan/vegetarian is aware of these issues and like myself, eat a lot of foods that substitute meat eg; broccoli and other things for calcium, beans and legumes for iron, proteins etc

extensive studies have been done on meat free diets and they have been proved to be very healthy when the person in question is aware of their diet. i have many friends that also have the same eating habits as myself and are proven, by blood tests etc with doctors, to be in 100% health.

the generalisation that all vegans or vegetarians are anemic or lacking in vitamins is not at all right. i have regular tests with doctors as i have other health problems that will be affected by lack of iron and calcium etc and have always been 100% when it comes to the levels of these things needed. a true vegan or vegetarian knows exactly how to substitute their diet and removing meat or other animal products from our diet does not automatically mean there is an accompanying lack of health.

this comes from the horses mouth so to speak. i am incredibly, crazily health conscious and would not compromise my health for anything however my chosen eating style has not in any way effected my health. there may be some exceptions to the rule but they will in most cases be the unwise, the unread or the unknowledgable. these people in most cases will also be the ones who are only half hearted in their convictions and will not be vegans or vegetarians for long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
JazzyRider Im sorry but I find it REALLY hard to believe your vegan/vegi sentiment when you use leather tack.

I cant wait till the plant in Mt is set up. Then at least there will be an outlet. I stand behind Regulated slaughter for all Livestock. That includes horses cows chickens pigs goats and every critter listed under livestock.
Im getting really irritated about people saying there should be no slaughter because Americans dont eat horses. Im about ready to start having free barbecues, main course prime aged equine.
Kevin you would be invited for sure. Im sure the jobless families in Gillette would sure be happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'll even bring the potatoe salad. Gillette isn't THAT far away.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top