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Discussion Starter #1
I am leasing a gelding named Eldorado. He is amazing! He is a pro at dressage, and he can move like an angel. His is a stunning Arabian... And his old owner said he is a dream to jump... after to associate who is in charge.

So, I have been excersizing my power in and out of the saddle, working on the ground with patterns like in halter, and he is great! He always seems to know I am in charge... until we bring up the jumps. He is great with poles, but when he sees the blocks on either side, he begins picking up the pace, going faster... then he extends his stride, and in the last second... He halts! It makes me so mad, because he doesn't fear them, because he completely trusts me. and he loves to jump, but he is so stubborn... with only me!

We have checked and switched the bit, and checked tack, we also began experimenting with different leg protection. we have worked so hard, but I cannot find out why on earth his working with this outrageous behavior.

Sometimes I will dismount, and try to lead him over it. He tosses his head up, and has even reared! His old owner doesn't understand it either, and said that she was showing him at like 2'6 hunters.

Any advice on how I can get him over the fences? I have tried a whip, and he just crowhops at it.:?

Please help me!!
XxHJxX
 

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It sounds like a confidence issue to me. A horse who is confident won't refuse, and horses won't refuse just to get one over on the rider. Horses don't think that way.

Being a high spirited horse, it's likely that he did jump before because the rider forced him over (to some degree) and because he's a more sensitive horse he would just jump because it was in his way....but he wasn't necessarily confident about it. This is a very common problem unfortunately.

I'd start back at the basics and build his confidence. Ground poles, cavalettis, cross-rails, just work your way up slowly and see when he starts to brace up and get impulsive (your example was that he gets faster and lifts his head). Start on-line and then move to the saddle. While riding, if he gets tense put him on a circle until he relaxes (even allow him to stretch if he wants) and then re-approach the jump. I did that with my warmblood when I was "rehabilitating" him for jumping (he had been pushed VERY hard in training before I got him) and now we approach jumps from w/t/c and he never shows any signs of tension or unconfidence anymore. And he doesn't refuse.
 

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Have you tried trotting or cantering him between the uprights with nothing between them? I agree with Spirithorse. Simplifiy it and break it back down to basics for him.
 

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You could also try lunging. Some horses are afraid to jump when you're on the ground because they are afraid they will step on you, hence why he might have reared. By the way, if he stops at a jump, the worst thing you can do is get off. That's undoing all of the "I'm the boss" training.

Back to the point. Try lunging him over the jumps, or free jump him. He doesn't have to worry about you, you won't be able to get in his way and you can see how he uses himself over fences. Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Spirithorse- Naah, he's not high-spirited really, he is acually nice and calm... except for when it comes to jumping.
And I have tried to go back to the basics, with trot poles... he's fantastic. Cavaletties... He's fantastic. Crossbars... thats what we're still working on!!
As for going through the blocks without anything... He is still great at them.

Lunging eh? I will definately have to do that.
Thank you!! And I will not get off of him anymore.
 

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How high are you placing the crossbars? If he is okay with caveletties, and trot poles, etc, maybe you're placing the cross bars too high right now?

Just keep at it; if he did it before, he will learn how to again, just take your time with him.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
mom2pride-
http://www.lizardtractors-shop.co.uk/acatalog/jump-block.jpg
Thats the kind of jump blocks we have, and I lay them as low as they go, and make is a crossbar. Its so low it doesn't even look like a jump.
Thats the problem, we have spent everyday doing the same thing, and its like he does it, then forgets and we have to start all over again!
 

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Thats the problem, we have spent everyday doing the same thing, and its like he does it, then forgets and we have to start all over again!
This statement is very telling. A lot of times when horses are not in a learning frame of mind (unconfident/scared/fearful/etc.) your statement is exactly true...the horse seems to "forget" what he's done, however he never really learned it in the first place. He was just made to do it. Doesn't mean the rider has been abusive, it just means the rider pushed the horse too fast. If you take your time, be very patient, and work on the fundamentals, you will probably see his unconfidence in jumping.
 

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I read "outrageous", "rear" & "arab".

Other folks suggest:
Going back to basics, with poles on the ground.
Trotting up rather than cantering
Lunging over the poles
then lunging over slightly raised poles

These moves must all be part of the re schooling. For sure.

But what about your hands - are you absolutely sure you don't jab on his mouth when you are over the jump??
Do you jerk him as you take off?
Are you riding him on contact or on loose reins?
How solid is your seating position?
Does the saddle fit properly?

And do you get angry??
Arabs as a breed are intelligent and sometimes cussed.
He will pick up on your anger - and as for whips --oh - never.

If he was jumping before for the previous owner, and if of course he/she was telling the truth, then perhaps the problem lies with his relationship with you - or rather yours with him.

Was he leased out to someone else before you got him?

You can check all this out by getting a competent friend to try him over the jumps. If she can do it and you can't then - well, she can show you how.

It might also help you, if a friend took a video of your riding the jump.

You could also work together with the friend in the arena - she goes first at the jump on her horse, you follow not too far behind.

But if an arab is rearing, then for sure he is not happy and until you isolate exactly why, you'll get nowhere.

Barry G

Nice kind words like "good boy" "come on son" - not necessarily in arabic , help. But never say "outrageous" to a horse, even in English.
 

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Why^? They don't speak english. It's like with dogs, I say "oh what a big dum dum you are!" in a lovey voice and they go estactic, but say "you are the best dog ever" in a threatning voice and you would think I was beating them
 

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Ah but Eldorado's mistress HJ does speak English and she is the one we are primarily trying to help.

Eldorado gets his reward later when he is not frightened of jumping a 1ft high fence.

Barry G
 

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But what about your hands - are you absolutely sure you don't jab on his mouth when you are over the jump??
Do you jerk him as you take off?
Are you riding him on contact or on loose reins?
How solid is your seating position?
Does the saddle fit properly?

And do you get angry??
Arabs as a breed are intelligent and sometimes cussed.
He will pick up on your anger - and as for whips --oh - never.

If he was jumping before for the previous owner, and if of course he/she was telling the truth, then perhaps the problem lies with his relationship with you - or rather yours with him.
I already tried to make the OP aware that 99% of refusals is rider error and she chooses not to see that.

99% of errors that occur while jumping, lays on the riders shoulders. Not the horse.
 

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Some horses are smarter than just responding to lovey voices. I have met plenty of horses that know exactly when you're insulting them. Sometimes it's trigger words (i met a gelding who would buck if you told him he was being a brat) and sometimes i think they are just smarter than you give them credit for.

But i agree with Barry G. Eldorado's rider has to hear the good words too otherwise we're planting bad things in her mind to pass on to him.
 

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Do not discredit the intelligence of animals. Just because they cannot speak in our tongue with theirs, does not mean they cannot understand us.

In all reality, it is us Human Kind who cannot understand the Animal Kind.
 

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I still don't think they can understand words (unless they are commonly used words like "dinner" "trot") Maybe I'm just used to my "not the sharpest crayonn in the box" horse. But even a smart horse doesn't speak english. A positive body language and tone means more then a negative word
 

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Maybe not verbally to you.

Every horse is at a different level of communication. Of course they are solid amongst one another, with their own language, but they talk amongst themselves all the time.

To people, those who have the gift, get different variations of communication.

Some horses express themselves to those who are willing to stop, pause and listen - through emotions and pictures. Others, are very verbal in our enlish language.
 

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Just going along with the train of thought, we also must remember that some horses can't tell us how they feel because they are afraid/unconfident. They don't feel safe communicating to us. It's our job to ALWAYS have the horse trust us.
 

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Folks,
All I was trying to say, was that if HJ got round to saying nice things to her horse, in any language she chose, then just maybe she might get to like him more. Talking helps her.
But she has to use a calm, even gentle, tone of voice, when talking.
Then maybe if Eldorado felt HJ liked him, then he might be more cooperative.

Talking to a horse from a horse's point of view might well be a waste of time, but it can be a good thing for the rider. To a nervous horse, a rider's hand on its mane means more than a dozen words.

As has been said, the more important thing is to work out what the horse is saying back to the rider. If it is indeed rearing, as well as refusing to jump a tiny obstacle, then whatever the horse is saying - it is not complimentary to the rider - in any language of communication.

Only HJ can put this right. All we can do over the internet is to give her ideas as to what to do. My suggestion is that if she pays more attention to communication from the horse, she might find out why he is not cooperating. If she talks to him, he might 'communicate' back to her.

But she wrote "outrageous" - it is a clue to what HJ is thinking, ie "How dare he disobey".

She doesn't want a fight, she seeks cooperation.
So what has she got to do to get it? Only HJ can work that out.

Barry G

HJ - I am trying to help and it is not my intention to offend - it is my impression from what you have told us over the computor, that Eldorado is really upset by something and you have to find out why.
There will be other problems down the line, so solving this problem is just the beginning of your making a relationship with Eldorado.
 
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