The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1261 - 1280 of 3100 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,793 Posts
This old thread still disgusts me (even after moderating) - and it disgusts me how many people click the "like" button when someone is being rude to another person.

https://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/breaking-7-year-old-gelding-432746/#post5624786
You made some good points in that thread. I wonder how many hundreds and thousands of teens have started horses on their own just by reading books or even just using trial and error. I've met young women who are not necessarily great riders or trainers, but they certainly knew what worked for their own horse and could ride that horse beautifully and do tricks.

I wonder how many pro trainers actually had another trainer tutor them through the training process. I've met a few that started out by training a horse or two on their own, spending some time winning at shows, and then offering their services to others. I never went through a horse starting program with a trainer, but I can certainly start a horse under saddle, as can you and many others on the forum. Including @knightrider, and perhaps @Knave, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,263 ·
Pretty much when kids do crazy things, I watch because it is interesting, or try it too. Then people point out to me that I am an adult.
:rofl:, @gottatrot ! However: While childishness isn't good in an adult, childlikeness (as you're showing there) is a good characteristic to have - trying out new things, being slightly deranged and good-crazy, being amazed by things jaded people find boring, being open and loving, saying what you mean, etc. I think of humans as being like cross-sections of trees; all your ages are still inside you, and I think the people who are reconciled to that, and celebrate and honour that, are actually the most mature people in many ways.

Some past posts on...

Annual rings:

https://www.horseforum.com/member-j...ys-other-people-479466/page80/#post1970589861

Looking deeper than the surface, journalling, and "weird" people:

https://www.horseforum.com/member-j...ys-other-people-479466/page80/#post1970589823

Brett told me last night I should make a thematic index for my journal, now that it's so long! :rofl:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,556 Posts
@gottatrot

I love you gottatrot! :hug: You are awesome. I hope that others here will be as lucky as I was to meet gottatrot face to face and ride with her. I'm sorry, I can't help but brag. It was such fun! :wink: :gallop:

One of the things I am most excited about as a new parent, is that now that I have a child, I am going to have plenty of excuses and chances to be silly and childlike (in a good way), and relive the joy of childhood. :smile:

ETA: Thanks Sue, childlike, not childish :razz:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,770 Posts
Ive never commented on your thread before, but I do read it regularly, i think we have the same taste in Sci-Fi and I wonder if you've ever seen the show Firefly by chance? but I thought I'd jump in on the point of criticism, mental health and the idea of addressing teenagers. Because often us Young folks need more tact and care than we would like to admit, and those teen years are difficult. I don't care who you are. I'm 22. Still young with fiery blood and not so removed from an angsty phase. I have a wonderful relationship with both my parents... Now. There was a period of time when my relationship with my father was somewhat violent, and not good. He never whacked me, but there was a lot of yelling and lording over that came from his own insecurities and the fact that every teenager ever is frustrating. I have forgiven him, I feel safe around him, there is a lot I respect about him, and love him very very much.

I grew up Christian, and over the years attending various churches that preached a "shove it down their throats" evangelism after we came stateside, my family grew up missionaries in Haiti and were solidly not in that camp, namely because it doesn't work, and it NEVER is respectful to a thinking human being who is made in the image of God. It's one of the few things I think is clear cut.

That method also doesn't work with horses. If you think it does I have a long list of mounts that put significant time and misery teaching me that's not the case. And they'd be happy to oblige the uninitiated.

The method that works with people or animals to develop a good working relationship is the same: be willing to see and address their weaknesses and refuse to abandon them. That looks totally different depending on what you're riding/ who you are talking to. With my horse it means not shoving with the spur when he's not under himself in canter (I ride dressage) and instead taking the time to either start again or get off his back so he can rebalance. My horse is not afraid to make a mistake with me. He trusts me to be consistent, to give the same aids and do what I can to help him in the job I've put him to. When I signed his bill of sale I made the promise to be responsible for his well being, that means looking to his physical needs and because I want a partner, being willing to change myself so that the work comes easy. I have not put him in a method or a program that I expect him to cookie cutter fit. He doesn't know. He doesn't understand. He only exists in the reality I've created for him, he can't research what I'm doing, he can only respond. That means I have a heck of a lot of moral responsibility to him to make that reality a good one. No bad rides. I must have empathy.

When it comes to people, we don't get to make the call that "since you've had this stimulus or since you are presently in this situation you should feel this way". That's individual. How we experience life is individual. My good friend grew up in an incredible home with incredible supportive parents, and she struggles with suicidal thoughts and depression. To be a good friend, I must meet her where she is in her pain and be there to support her. I can't diagnose why. That's not my call. I can't tell her how she should feel. That's not my call. I can't tell her that because she's had a phenomenal upbringing and phenomenal support that she shouldn't struggle this way. That's not my call.

My boyfriend grew up in a house where they hid the knives so his mother couldn't kill herself, where violence was the rule and not the exception. He also struggles with mental health, but of a different flavor. I can't tell him he shouldn't feel anxious. I can't tell him that he's the way he is because of how he grew up. I cant tell him that it's genetic and he will always be this way. None of those are my call. My best service is to support him where he is weak, and to help him when he is low.

If I assume his bad past has defined him or if I assume the good past should define how my friend feels, I havent been considering the right things. If you're going to cope with mental health or loneliness or abuse you need someone to come along beside you, not to peer at your "resume" and contest the results. It's a breach of trust.

It's weird to me that people are unwilling to contend with the quirky horses, every one I've seen has settled out with good training. But I think these same people would back away from helping the quirky people. But the bad horses you can sell on and the hurting people you can ignore or blame on someone else when it finally boils to an ugly head. Maybe it wasn't the hard spoken person's fault they struggled or responsibility to see to their care. But by golly WHO ARE YOU if you do not? What higher form of cruelty is there than to neglect pain and suffering as if it isn't there.




Sorry. You can have your thread back.i really don't like the flippancy with which the behaviour of children/young adults is dealt with. It really grinds my gears.


I showed my Fellow pictures of your strawbale house and now we want one. But our climate may be too cold.

Cheers
gm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,077 Posts
I also have been reminded I am a grown up on several occasions. Lol

Yes @gottatrot, I have started horses under saddle. Like my little one though, I had a lot of experience surrounding me. I never remember not riding, and I have raised my kids the same. Most kids who grow up in my culture start a horse or two, maybe even just so that they have the confidence that they can. We still hold some old feelings like that.

Now, my brother never started a horse, but he never had any interest in horses. My oldest also is not interested in starting horses, although she rides for work and enjoys her horse. She does plan on being the person who does most of Bones’s riding this spring so that her sister may use her horse for work and she can get some experience with a younger horse.

I don’t think it is a mandatory thing in this day and age. I told the girls that the only mandatory I had for them was the ability to work with the family. This means that they need to be horseman enough to get their jobs done, but they don’t need to have a hobby that is horses as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,268 ·
@lostastirrup, I've no idea why you're apologising, you're totally welcome to be here and to chime in! :hug:

I wish there was a love button - that was such a wonderful, heartfelt, insightful, wise, super-articulate post from you - thank you so much for writing it. :love: :bowwdown:

It makes my day to know that there are people like you in this world - beacons of light in an often dark place. This will make such a difference to so many people - and other creatures! I'm particularly over the moon when it's younger people who are articulating such things. I'm GenX, a really rotten generation in many ways, my leaving yearbook was full of cited ambitions like "I want to be a millionaire by the time I'm 25!" and "I want to get rich and to get laid as much as possible!" and "I want to have a villa in France and a jet-boat and marry a photographic model!" blah blah blah (we should request a vomit emoji; here's an imported one:
)

Oops, that a bit big! :rofl:

The first generation I taught were GenY, and such an improvement on what my generation had been. I'm often reminded of the saying, "Change happens one funeral at a time!" :Angel:

It feels good to know that there are people being born who are going to be an improvement on the world average attitude. That you're still going to be here and shining your light when I'm dust. Great stuff - thank you! :cool:

My DH loves Firefly and tried to sell it to me several times. I'm not instantly hooked - probably the environment putting me off - I'm not as much of a SciFi buff as he is. But I did really adore Wonderfalls, and if I'm not mistaken, I think there's a common production element to that somewhere... And I love Dead Like Me...

I'll tear myself away now, everyone, and actually do some work! :rofl: Have a great evening, and remember, the coffee is in the pantry over there! ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,770 Posts
I'm actually not really sure how all the generations line up. But I don't think mine is particularly improved from the last one. Different issues maybe, but plenty of our own sins.


You really should give Firefly a second try. Have a glass of wine with it if you must to get through the setting, it will grow on you quickly I promise. And you'll be as sad as the rest of us that it ended.

Best of luck doing actual work. I've been trying all afternoon to no avail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,556 Posts
@lostastirrup

Hello fellow 22 year old! :wave:
Yes, I'm 22. With a two month old now. I don't like to admit it, because somehow things I say become of less worth once people find out my age. But this is not a thread where that would happen.
@SueC

Your husband has the same light in his eyes. Such happy people. You two are a great couple :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,770 Posts
@lostastirrup

Hello fellow 22 year old! :wave:
Yes, I'm 22. With a two month old now. I don't like to admit it, because somehow things I say become of less worth once people find out my age. But this is not a thread where that would happen.
What is it they say "age is just a number and mine is unlisted".

I've always looked younger than I am so I'm used to being treated as though I have less experience. Which it's true, so I try and be careful and only speak to the things I know I know.

A two month old! Just a year or two away from a first pair of boots and a pony!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,272 · (Edited)
Ah, ageism, @horseluvr2524 - that happens at both ends - and even in the mid-range! :rofl: But not in this journalling group, where we're all human beings, and happy that we were all born with enough time overlap to get to know each other better.

Songs again: Here's a person in midlife looking back at their early 20s. The singer is about a decade up from me, and very influential on me as a teenager, as a good role model, which in many ways he and his bandmates actually were, back in the day. U2 showed me, with their music, that you could be angry for reasons other than not getting your own way - not in a destructive way, but in a constructive way. Also they showed me that male adults could care about other people, and people less fortunate than them, and that they could define love very differently to the way people in my family of origin did. (As did the Gospels, which I was reading for the first time at the time, after a visit to the school by the people who hand out the little pocket NTs in red covers - some of the boys immediately went and used them for toilet paper, after making loud declarations to that effect, but I've always felt I should read something and form my own opinion on it before opening my mouth about it, and doing public theatre.)

From around the 1990s, my audience relationship with U2 has been very on again-off again, as they cycled through some musical styles I didn't like, and wrote a few songs that had a sort of emetic effect on me along the way, which was also true for their 1990s multimedia stadium shows, of which I was never a fan - which is not to say it was "bad" - just that it didn't appeal to me - there is a difference! :)

But U2's Songs Of Innocence and The Cure's Bloodflowers are without question my favourite two albums to come out this millennium - both of them spoke to me, from start to finish, like no album had since I was in my early 20s. I've yet to catch up with a few Cure albums from this millennium, but U2's Songs Of Innocence is my favourite U2 album since The Joshua Tree and The Unforgettable Fire were released back in the 1980s.

This song I'm going to link to is so eloquent about the youth-end ageism that you're referring to, @horseluvr2524 , and that I experienced myself as a teenager and a young twenty-something - like what would we possibly know? (...in the song the lines, Old man knows that I never listen/So how could I have something to say, and Old man says that we never listen/We shout about what we don’t know especially hit that for me!) Which is such an arrogant attitude... and teaching people of that age range, later on, just reinforced that for me - many people give far too little credit to young people, intellectually and emotionally. I've known 12-year-olds that were more emotionally mature, and also more intellectual, than some of the principals I've worked with (but also, luckily, had some great principals along the way). You really can't judge people so superficially, and arrive at anything accurate.


And this is an example of what U2 were up to in their early 20s:


Yay for 22, you two - enjoy! :) When I was 22, I was just starting my first professional job out of university. My research project (sustainable land management) involved, at one point, working with a senior soil scientist who was also in the area. He was a bit cranky at first, but we soon got on. My research supervisor said, "Well, I'm glad that's going so well! When we hired you, he said to me, 'Oh, I see you gave an important project to a little girl just out of school!'" :rofl: We all fell about laughing - the soil scientist included...

Oh and thanks for your compliments re Brett and me. I think he's super-amazing too, but I really can't underline enough, especially talking to younger people, that we too still have things we really need to work on, and that this is a lifelong process - I don't think anyone has it fully sorted...


@lostastirrup , I'll give Firefly another go - since the person suggesting it is one of the small subgroup of the population who understand why it's funny that one of my Sunsmart's nicknames is Smartibartfast! ;-) This will also make my husband happy - which he wasn't when I was sort of falling asleep in Episode 1... :Angel:

Hope you have a more productive time soon. Me, I've managed to plant a Tahitian lime and do some general maintenance, and am back in on a break, eating chickenless chicken soup... had a migraine yesterday and the ghost of it is still around, and this soup wards off ghosts and is easy to make - you just boil some soup pasta in chicken stock (which these days rarely has actual chicken in it), and when the pasta is done, add some slices of cheddar cheese and a handful of parsley. Let the cheese melt into the soup and... hmmmm. Also excellent when you've gotten really cold, or been mountain-climbing, or just had a hard day.

While I was out, I was listening to my i-Pod, and thought I'd come and pop this 80s anthem on my journal on my break. Because the 80s were materialistic rather than idealistic, the alternative music scene was a rich mine of inspiration for me. Tears for Fears weren't my usual cup of tea, but I did love this song, Shout, as a teenage, and looking back on it, I have to applaud it as an adult as well. I was never a fan of keyboard-heavy music, or of drum machines or anything but complex polyrhythms, but it doesn't matter with this song - just as it didn't matter in John Farnham's You're The Voice, which I posted a few pages back.

I also love this, from Wikipedia:
"A lot of people think that 'Shout' is just another song about primal scream theory, continuing the themes of the first album. It is actually more concerned with political protest. It came out in 1984 when a lot of people were still worried about the aftermath of The Cold War and it was basically an encouragement to protest."
— Roland Orzabal
"It concerns protest inasmuch as it encourages people not to do things without actually questioning them. People act without thinking because that's just the way things go in society. So it's a general song, about the way the public accepts any old grief which is thrown at them."
— Curt Smith[5]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,273 ·
What is it they say "age is just a number and mine is unlisted".
:rofl: Very good!

I've also heard it said that age doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese! :rofl:

And that older people shouldn't eat health food, because they need all the preservatives they can get! :Angel:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,793 Posts
Very nice post, @lostastirrup!

I am against ageism, along with most other "isms." I remember all too well feeling biased against as a younger person. @horseluvr2524 is very mature anyway, and many older folks have no wisdom, while some younger ones are very sage.

My DH said recently he saw a girl around 5 years old walking with someone and saying, "When I was a little girl..." Very cute. Age is all relative.

I liked Firefly. My favorite character was Zoe, who was a strong woman who didn't need to point out that fact to anyone, and married to a man who was not as courageous or stereotypically macho, which also did not seem to make him less important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,276 · (Edited)
I've just realised just how long it's actually been since I heard that song. I heard it only once, on Especially For Headphones, a mid to late 80s Perth radio programme, with my headphones on, and I laughed so much - I was in senior high school. So that's a really interesting thing - that someone can tap a little compartment in your head and it can fall open, and this stuff can tumble out! :)

I hear Robert Fripp was tone deaf and lacked a sense of rhythm when he started guitar as a child, but he did well, and this is a very deliciously naughty sort of song - even the music is naughty - just listen to the bass! :rofl: David Byrne, of course, from the Talking Heads, is perfect for this vocal.

This leads to another little known, surreal Talking Heads song I find really interesting, off an album of theirs in my collection; here's the lyrics:

SEEN AND NOT SEEN

He would see faces in movies, on T.V., in magazines, and in books...
He thought that some of these faces might be right for him...
And through the years, by keeping an ideal facial structure fixed in his mind...
Or somewhere in the back of his mind...
That he might, by force of will, cause his face to approach those of his ideal...
The change would be very subtle...It might take ten years or so...
Gradually his face would change its' shape...
A more hooked nose...wider, thinner lips...beady eyes...a larger forehead.
He imagined that this was an ability he shared with most other people...
They had also molded their faced according to some ideal...
Maybe they imagined that their new face would better
Suit their personality...Or maybe they imagined that their
Personality would be forced to change to fit the new appearance...
This is why first impressions are often correct...
Although some people might have made mistakes...
They may have arrived at an appearance that bears no relationship to them...
They may have picked an ideal appearance based on some childish
Whim, or momentary impulse...
Some may have gotten half-way
There, and then changed their minds.
He wonders if he too might have made a similar mistake.



Under Heavy Manners and its -isms was probably the inspiration for the following (later) song:


As an Australian, I feel this urge to apologise for INXS. I did like Shabooh Shoobah and The Swing - great albums - but they really lost me in the late 80s, with all their silly rock star antics. Michael Hutchence in particular became a sort of embarrassment to a lot of ordinary Australians, running around in his torn dirty clothes and with a really big mouth, doing drugs as a sort of fashion statement, and running off with someone else's wife. The guy in the leather pants can't even walk in a straight line. Their spelling is unsatisfactory, and the band just made me cringe, with and after Kick. Maybe I'm too harsh - Brett says he didn't mind them and there were lots worse (but that he wouldn't invite any of them for lunch :rofl:). I'm probably un-enamoured of in-your-face dysfunctional antics, because it cuts too close to my own background. I've had enough crap without wanting to see someone else sort of making a cavalier display of it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,277 · (Edited)
Man, this music thing is like a tapeworm! :rofl:

Now that I've put in a sort of teeth-on-edge example of Australian music, I really must put in some thoroughly wonderful Australian music and artists as well. And I'll start with the way our musicians have saved us from our dreadful national anthem...

Those of you in the US: Be grateful that you have an anthem with actual poetic words and a lovely melody. No such luck here; Australians had a shocking thing foisted upon them by those who ruled the roost, a lame thing lyrically and musically. It is generally agreed by many Australians that some fogey wrote it who knew nothing about the actual country. The original text was so sexist and racist they had to modify it several times already, and it still stinks. I've never sung it - being 11 when I came, and thinking, "What the heck is this???" after singing actually nice European anthems - the Bavarian one was lovely, the German one a bit stodgy... Bavaria was its own kingdom once and so still has the old anthem as a regional thing, although now part of Germany...

Once, a drunken English person wanted to beat me up because I failed to get up and sing the Australian anthem at Opera In The Park, in Sydney, in 2003. My friend Stephanie and I had just been to the peace march and came to this free public performance to see if our musical tastes could be modified to include this genre (the experiment failed :rofl:).

The Australian government were not representing the overwhelming will of the Australian people not to get involved in George W. Bush's war - the Sydney ferries were packed to the point of tilting as the populace went to protest in the CBD. It was a sad time, and not a time to sing national anthems, I thought - because they were becoming like soccer team songs, with this sort of us versus them mentality, when all of us are human beings. Because of my international upbringing, I've never felt I was any particular nationality as much as I was simply human, like everyone else. I can see why you'd want to sing a nice anthem if you had one (and I did, as a child), under peaceful and harmonious world circumstances, but not an ugly anthem, at an ugly time, when people needed to be human, instead of soccer hooligans.

My friend and I were talking in German - as she was German and doing a practicum in Sydney - and suddenly this belligerent, unhygienic troll of a person who reeked of alcohol a mile into a headwind loomed over us aggressively, fists clenched, and drawled drunkenly, in a British accent - irony of ironies - "In my country, when you come here, you sing our anthem, so get up and sing!" The crowd, at this point, was silently coming to our defence - a lot of Australians have an egalitarian streak and won't stand for this sort of base intimidation. I sat and looked him in the eye, because I'm well versed in bullying and physical violence from my childhood, and from about age 14, when I grew a sense of an authentic self and a sense of my own soul, never let anyone cow me, even if they actually hit me - I'd always look them in the eye, and tell them that being bigger than someone else didn't make you right, and didn't mean other people had to agree with you. And after a tense pause, in which I didn't move or flinch or do anything but look him in the eye, I said, in my own best ABC accent, "In our country, we don't have a dictatorship, and we're free to express how we feel about things at times like this, without anyone taking us away and shooting us. Our country is made up of lots of ethnic backgrounds, it's a multicultural country, and its original inhabitants were here before us." Murmurs of assent came from the crowd, and the bully backed off and went back to his bottle. That week I'd started off feeling ashamed to be Australian, because of our government, but with the peace march and all the lovely people and because of what the crowd did that night for us in the Sydney Botanical Gardens, I felt really proud to be Australian, and to have a tangible sense of fellowship with fair and decent people.

Back to our real Australian anthems, written by real people: Waltzing Matilda is the unofficial Australian anthem... here is our Jenny Thomas doing a nice version. It's really about the low-ranked people versus the land aristocracy in colonial Australia. Translations for Australian jargon in this song are easy to find online! :)


Jenny Thomas also did the violin for the Lord Of The Rings movies (soundtrack). This is far more Australian than that rubbish anthem that some toffee-nosed politician imposed on the Australian population.

This next song is also often used in lieu of our awful anthem. It really really conjures up Australia for me, and what I love about it. This version comes with gorgeous scenery I know you will all enjoy.


And then there's this little number, originally written by the Warumpi band, a neat Aboriginal outfit who have some excellent songs. Nice clip too.


This was Christine Anu's version, which she performed at the Sydney Olympics in 2000. This song is really important for giving voice to the original inhabitants' connection with this country. They were totally left out of that silly official anthem we have, and can't identify one bit with it. And the funny thing is, I'm a European immigrant, but I can so, so identify with these songs written by the Aboriginal Australians - because I so share their sense of place - because the Australian landscape, flora, fauna, light, heat, wind and rain have sunk into my very bones like nothing else has, and have made me Australian - although in terms of allegiance, I'm simply human. :)


And finally, another important Aboriginal anthem, about reconciliation, held in high esteem by many of us:


So now you all know what our REAL anthems are over here! :)

PS: @Knave , I know you've seen some of this before! ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,700 Posts
Well, that's interesting! I always thought "Waltzing Matilda" was the Australian National anthem. You live and learn, huh? I googled it and because I don't know the history, I thought "Advance Australia Fair" was charming.


But, wow, since this is your journal, I guess no one will jump on me when I make the statement that sports players who refuse to stand for our national anthem and are denigrated and treated terribly just drives me wild. Colin Kaepernick, who is incredibly talented, has sacrificed his whole career for what he believed in. No football team will hire him. It upsets me terribly that people say things like, "He doesn't respect the flag", like the national anthem and American flag are holy things that we all must revere. I think police not shooting unarmed black people is something we must revere.

I love what you did, @SueC. I don't see why we should make these things holy relics when they are just pieces of cloth and music. Let actions be more important that cloth and music.

And I enjoyed your eclectic musical selections. Lots of fun. Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
I'm late to comment but I found myself really thinking about your posts about your childhood SueC. Hope I'm not a downer by bringing it up again!

I also had an abusive upbringing, but at 62 years I have yet to escape the effects. My critical mother made me terrified of people. Even being looked at by others sends me into a panic state; when she looked at me I saw the eyes of a hunter going for the kill. I only coped by becoming hidden and frozen, and later, by becoming a loner. To this day I dread going out and encountering people. I don't seem to be able to stop my mind from going into a panic state.

I've always had an affinity with animals though and I loved horses from before I can remember.

I joined this forum a while ago but rarely comment, for the same reason, fear of being attacked. But thanks to you SueC, and your warm and open nature, I find myself wondering if it's finally time for me to start talking. I also want to thank other forum members; gottatrot, Hondo, bsms, knightrider and others for their thoughtful posts that have started a change in my thinking. Maybe I'll start a journal!



A big thank you to you all!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,280 · (Edited)
Hello again, @Alder , and welcome!

:welcome:

I'm late to comment but I found myself really thinking about your posts about your childhood SueC. Hope I'm not a downer by bringing it up again!
No, it's fine, @Alder , I'm reconciled to it and through the stage where it was really hurting me - and that took a long time to get through, so I completely understand why some people hurt their entire lifetimes over things like this, and are still raw the day they die. I've just been very fortunate to have had a lot of education, and kindness from great people along the road, and above all to have gotten into a stable, loving family situation, and to have been able to talk about it; otherwise the pain of what happened would still be eating me, I think.

And now I can talk about it, and am happy to field questions or to hold hands and talk with those who have known the same sadness and horror. People are both hell and redemption when it comes to abuse in any form. It's people who put you through hell, both in the original abuse and the ignoramuses who like to blame and stigmatise you over it and look down their noses at you (especially in the early phases of recovery, where you're stuck and lack social skills and struggle and aren't fun because you're so down), and of course society on a wider scale is filled with emotional and physical violence - but also kind people who reach out for you when you're in a lonely hole in the ground and in need of warmth and kindness - and do you know, I've found that the kindness of just one person can cancel out the cruelty and ignorance of a whole mob.

You're amongst kind people here, and you're very welcome, and you can say what you want, and tell your own story if it would help, and ask what you want - no worries, as we say in Australia. :hug:

I also had an abusive upbringing, but at 62 years I have yet to escape the effects. My critical mother made me terrified of people. Even being looked at by others sends me into a panic state; when she looked at me I saw the eyes of a hunter going for the kill. I only coped by becoming hidden and frozen, and later, by becoming a loner. To this day I dread going out and encountering people. I don't seem to be able to stop my mind from going into a panic state.
I'm so sorry for the little girl you were, @Alder , and also for the pain that has stayed with you. :hug:

That panic is typical of complex PTSD from being horrified and unsafe from the cradle - and I had that panic and that lack of ease with people very badly both as a pre-schooler, before being taught for my first two years at school by a warm, kind, vibrant person, and then again from around 17 to around 22 - when I lost the friendship community of my high school and the pastoral support of my teachers - when I was essentially too unbuffered by enough warmth from other people. If anyone laughed, I'd think it was at me; I walked around with my head down and hunched and could not look people in the eye, and really lost the ability to connect with people I'd learnt at school and been able to maintain at school. I couldn't speak in public, things were just so dark, and I actually did a Grad.Dip.Ed. primarily to overcome the fear of public speaking and inability to relax with a group (which was sort of like throwing myself in the deep end voluntarily, but it did work).

It's hard to believe I was like that, looking back, but I can still really feel it if I go there - it was just a bottomless pit emotionally. I've a lovely friend in her 60s who is just so excellent one on one, as a friend, and also doing structured presentations in public, but she struggled with OCD and agoraphobia all her life due to a childhood that made mine look tame (mine was only mid-range in terms of abuse). I could never understand why she declined invitations to come walking, go out for coffee, go to the museum etc, until she told me about all this. She has a physical safe space, and prefers to stay there unless there are significant reasons not to. It was especially bad for her because her family was in a church, where love and kindness was preached, and she was beaten black and blue at home, as the family scapegoat, and ridiculed over her weight, and yet nobody in the congregation ever seemed to notice - they all seemed to think her parents were just the ant's pants. And they were doing this stuff in the name of God. (Don't talk to me about terrorism - because so many people think that's just what someone who doesn't look or speak like them does to white people - and don't realise it runs through everything, every place where people abuse their power. What my friend's parents did to her was terrorism, no question about it.)

One of the bloggers I just love, Cherilyn Clough, had to deal with religious narcia - and has the best website I've ever seen to help people from backgrounds of domestic abuse.

https://littleredsurvivor.com/

I've always had an affinity with animals though and I loved horses from before I can remember.
They are kind, warm and very intuitive creatures - it's no accident they are chosen for a lot of PTSD work with war veterans. In one sense they are therapy on four legs - just like music can be therapy through your ears. They are bigger than you, but aren't using that fact to bully you all the time. Our octogenarian friend Bill says that the human species is the very worst animal there is, because of the incomparable cruelty that is found in our species. A carnivore eats another animal because it's hungry and will die if it doesn't eat. A lot of humans actually enjoy hurting others, and just do it for fun. Which is not to say that all abusers are sadistic - some are, some aren't - there's the sadistic kind, and there's also the kind that never sorted out their own issues and are just running on autopilots, like corrupt computer programmes - because they won't challenge their own behaviour - often they don't even want to see it. And often, churches or work organisations become complicit in the abuse - turning a blind eye, enabling, and sometimes even encouraging abuse.

@Alder , I am very glad you had horses. Also @knightrider , and anyone else reading who had a terrible deficit of human warmth in their birth families. I'm glad I had contact with them too. And other animals, as well.

I joined this forum a while ago but rarely comment, for the same reason, fear of being attacked. But thanks to you SueC, and your warm and open nature, I find myself wondering if it's finally time for me to start talking. I also want to thank other forum members; gottatrot, Hondo, bsms, knightrider and others for their thoughtful posts that have started a change in my thinking. Maybe I'll start a journal!

A big thank you to you all!
A big you're so welcome, and I'm glad we could do something from me. :hug: It's such a lovely bunch of people. :love:

Talking in an unsafe space is a minefield - as I'm sure you know. In a safe supportive space, however... :)

You are very very welcome to be here and to talk with us about anything and everything amongst friends. I'm sure the others will tell you the same thing, and mean it too! :love:

I hope you're having a better day.

Are you riding? :cowboy:

@knightrider , thanks! :) You know, I think it's so great to be talking to a person who was there in the 60s and so involved with civil rights etc. :bowwdown: Thank you thank you thank you, for doing that, and for being that person! :love:

I will get back to you about the anthem, and do a naughty little post on it - as you'd expect by now. ;-)
 
1261 - 1280 of 3100 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top