Western, English and...?

635 Views 19 Replies 12 Participants Last post by knightrider, 22 d ago

Ruth McClure

Discussion Starter · 24 d ago

I've been thinking about it and country people here in Australia, we ride in aussie stock bridles and saddles. Which gives a look that isn't Western...but what is it? Is there a name for this style of riding? Curious to hear what you all think.

English

Horse Vertebrate Sky Tree Working animal

Western

Horse Working animal Hat Saddle Horse tack

?????

Clothing Horse Sky Cloud Plant

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QtrBel

· #2 · 23 d ago

As western is based on stock riding and that's what/where this developed I'd still class it as western. That said the Aussie saddle comes in all sorts of versions English, western, endurance, trail. The only two that don't really cross are English and western eventhough there are more styles for western there isn't an English style and same said for reverse.

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Caledonian

· #3 · 23 d ago

It depends on where you're from.

I think we'd differentiate between Aussie and Western. To my eyes Aussie is a mix of European and Western and it would be described as Aussie purely because it evolved and is used in Australia. Western would be associated with America.

Here, the majority ride in the style of the first photo and it would be described as 'riding' rather than English. It means that we don't have that split between English and Western.

Perhaps Western would be listed as a discipline or style alongside dressage, showjumping, showing, sidesaddle etc. Most use it for comfort out hacking or competing in western classes.

I don't think we have classes for Aussie riding, although I know a few people who use the saddles

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Ruth McClure

Discussion Starter · #4 · 23 d ago

Caledonian said:
It depends on where you're from.

I think we'd differentiate between Aussie and Western. To my eyes Aussie is a mix of European and Western and it would be described as Aussie purely because it evolved and is used in Australia. Western would be associated with America.

Here, the majority ride in the style of the first photo and it would be described as 'riding' rather than English. It means that we don't have that split between English and Western.

Perhaps Western would be listed as a discipline or style alongside dressage, showjumping, showing, sidesaddle etc. Most use it for comfort out hacking or competing in western classes.

I don't think we have classes for Aussie riding, although I know a few people who use the saddles

So would you quite literally call it "Aussie riding"?

Caledonian

· #5 · 23 d ago

Ruth McClure said:
So would you quite literally call it "Aussie riding"?

I would.

I've never called Australians working the land with horses as riding in the Western style; as I said above, that's associated with America.

I'd describe someone as using a western or aussie saddle but I wouldn't say that they're riding western or aussie until they change their riding style - using one hand, in show classes, working horses and the land in a way specific to a country etc.

It's very subjective and I can't speak for everyone here

.

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boots

· #6 · 23 d ago

A couple polo friends, raised on sheep and cattle stations, said they always referred to them as "stock saddles."

There were stock saddles, English saddles, and polo saddles in their worlds.

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Ruth McClure

Discussion Starter · #7 · 23 d ago

boots said:
A couple polo friends, raised on sheep and cattle stations, said they always referred to them as "stock saddles."

There were stock saddles, English saddles, and polo saddles in their worlds.

There's no question about what the saddles are.

Cordillera Cowboy

· #8 · 23 d ago

The Aussies in your photo do show some American cowboy influence in their clothing and some of the head stalls.

But I’ve never really given much thought to what you would call the style. I do find it amusing that what Americans call English riding is the same style used in most of Europe. From my experience it is simply called “riding”,as @Caledonian mentioned.

I suppose if it is to be called anything, the Aussies should come up with something.

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boots

· #9 · 23 d ago

Cordillera Cowboy said:
The Aussies in your photo do show some American cowboy influence in their clothing and some of the head stalls.

But I’ve never really given much thought to what you would call the style. I do find it amusing that what Americans call English riding is the same style used in most of Europe. From my experience it is simply called “riding”,as @Caledonian mentioned.

I suppose if it is to be called anything, the Aussies should come up with something.

Yeah. I never heard riding caked anything but riding. Nobody ever said "I do polo riding" "I do english riding." Those sound awkward.

And I would have sympathy for anyone who said they do "cowboy riding."

Maybe "i ride a western saddle," or "a forward seat saddle." But that's as descriptive as I've heard.

dogpatch

· #10 · 23 d ago

Ruth McClure said:
I've been thinking about it and country people here in Australia, we ride in aussie stock bridles and saddles. Which gives a look that isn't Western...but what is it? Is there a name for this style of riding? Curious to hear what you all think.

English
View attachment 1151847

Western
View attachment 1151848

?????
View attachment 1151849

If I were Australian, I would be proud to call it Australian style riding! 🥰 🥰 🥰

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bsms

· #11 · 23 d ago

1 - I distinguish between riding styles based on use of reins, not saddle. Do you value long periods of sustained contact? English - or European. Based on that, and on videos of campdrafting versus cutting, I'd call Australian "European".

2 - Australian stock saddles now come in both European based trees and Western based trees. So...if based on saddles, I'd look at the tree. Half Breed Saddle (I vote "Western"):

Standard Australian stock saddle, European tradition:

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HarmonywithHorses

· #12 · 23 d ago

Isn't it called Australian stock saddle?

bsms

· #13 · 23 d ago

pasomountain

· #14 · 23 d ago

My sisters frequently ride in aussie saddles and we never referred to it as anything other than "riding in the aussie stock saddle". We ride western most the time so I guess it would still be considered western--just using a different style of saddle.

Here is older sis with a leather aussie she used to have. She bought it because it fit her big paint horse perfectly. The green pad has built in pockets on both sides--so cool!

Water Horse Sky Tree Working animal

And here is younger sis using a Wintec aussie on the RMH. It's super lightweight and they love it.

Horse Vertebrate Working animal Horse supplies Saddle

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Rainsong

· #15 · 23 d ago

Well, I think Aussie saddles are actually described as stock saddles that would kind of put them in the western camp...but I think it depends on how you're actually riding...are you using an English type bridle and riding "English" or a Western type bridle and riding "Western"
(my two cents...and probably not even worth that 😆)

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Ruth McClure

Discussion Starter · #16 · 23 d ago

HarmonywithHorses said:
Isn't it called Australian stock saddle?

Yes, it is.

Cordillera Cowboy

· #17 · 22 d ago

After thinking on this a bit deeper, I find myself coming at it fr somewhat different direction.

Rather than asking what style of riding is this? I ask what would you call this seat?

My experience has been, that no matter what saddle I was in, what I was doing influenced my seat.

Any time I’ve jumped something, I tended to use a forward seat.

Since most of my riding was on young, green, or unpredictable horses, I’ve tended to sit deep, with long stirrups. More or less in my imperfect understanding of a dressage seat. Most, but not all of this has been in a western saddle

In the cavalry, I learned the military seat, which is similar to the forward seat, but with a more erect posture, and handling the reins with one hand.

With gaited horses, I learned to sit back on my pockets. My pride wouldn’t let me slouch over as so many walking horse riders do. And I have never heard any particular name for that seat.

I’ve seen a few Americans riding Aussie stock saddles. They’ve been recreational riders out on trails. I’ve never really looked hard enough to make a call on what seat they might be using.

I’ve never seen Aussies riding in the stock saddles. But I’m back to square one on figuring that it’s the Aussies who should come up with a name for it.

That’s if they even want to.

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Milton'sMama

· #18 · 22 d ago

Cordillera Cowboy said:
Rather than asking what style of riding is this? I ask what would you call this seat?

I can see this. When I started riding lessons 30+ years ago, it was in "hunt seat." That meant I rode in a close-contact saddle suitable for flat work and jumping in the "hunter/jumper" discipline. This does fall under the "English" category for most.

However, "saddle seat" is also "English" and is a completely different style of riding from "hunt seat." The saddle is different and the discipline is centered on riding breeds typically associated with "saddle seat" (Saddlebreds, Morgans, Arabs, gaited breeds, etc). There is no jumping.

Then there's dressage, which is neither of the seats above, and is both its own discipline with its own tack, but also the foundation for almost every discipline regardless of the tack.

Then there is "stock seat" which is basically "Western." On a class sheet at a show, this would most likely mean western pleasure or ranch pleasure type of classes. Then there's reining, trail, cutting, etc. that also falls in the "Western" category.

At the large open show circuit where I used to show, the divisions were:

English Pleasure (Saddlebreds, Morgans, Arabs, etc)
Non-Trotting (TWH, etc)
Field Hunter (hunter/jumper type of hunt seat)
Huntseat (stock-type hunters: AQHA, APHA, ApHC)
Dressage Suitability
Western Pleasure
Working Western
Trail

I do get the "do you ride English or Western?" question from people sometimes. I ride both, but when I say "English" I mean mostly hunt seat and dressage. I certainly don't ride saddle seat. And when I say "Western" I mean trail riding and sort of a hybrid of western pleasure/ranch pleasure/western dressage (there's another one!). I certainly don't do reining or cutting or barrel racing, LOL.

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bsms

· #19 · 22 d ago (Edited)

My seat and posture change during every ride. I do almost all trotting in two point, albeit with a very long leg. And I lean forward when I want to go faster because I want the "two point" balance regardless. But if (when) my horse is nervous, my legs go forward and I slouch back a bit because it will be easier to ride a sudden stop/spin that way. And when walking, I sit...but not with a "dressage" leg since my heel is almost never under my hip. The same was true in my Aussie-style saddle.

But I value slack reins (more than Bandit does) and rarely use more than one hand on the reins and Bandit is never "on the bit" nor can I imagine wanting him to be, and I tell him what the goal is and let him figure out how he's going to do it, so I figure I'm a western rider regardless of my saddle. Although a lot of "English" riders do that on a trail, so...

As the song in "The King and I" says:

When I was a boy,
World was better spot.
What was so was so,
What was not was not.

Now I am a man—
World have change a lot:
Some things nearly so,
Others nearly not.

There are times I almost think
I am not sure of what I absolutely know.
Very often find confusion
In conclusion I concluded long ago.

In my head are many facts
That, as a student, I have studied to procure.
In my head are many facts
Of which I wish I was more certain I was sure!

Is a puzzlement...

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knightrider

· #20 · 22 d ago

I know one thing. I wasn't allowed to barrel race in my Aussie saddle. I had to ride in a Western saddle to barrel race. I have Western, English, Aussie, Paso Fino, and bareback pads. Western saddles come in trail, barrel, cutting, roping, and all purpose too.

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