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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Personally, I'm not a fan, but I'm not going to bash it or start a fight. I just saw this video of a person training their horse and saw the martengale and kinda just lost it. No wonder the horses head is so low. The martengale is much to tight for it! When/if I ever use a martengale it's for maybe the first 20 minutes of a couple rides, and it's set so that it will only actually do something if the horse tries to get it's head up in the air. But watching this video... I hardly see horses with their heads like that naturally, but having it tied that low.... :?

I dunno. I guess this is a bit of a rant. No offense to WP riders intended... It's just not my thing I guess. I think it's just some of the training that ruined WP for me. Oh, and the lack of speed, I like to go fast. :wink:

 

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Eh, I'm not a fan of martingales by any means, but that one looks like it's adjusted properly. I was always taught that you want the rings to hit a the point of the horse's shoulder, any higher than that and you pretty much defeat the purpose of even using one. Also, I believe the point is more to get the horse to tuck his nose in and round up, rather than to encourage a low headset. Again, I don't like to ride in the things but that's just what I've picked up from having to use them on the school horses in college.

Also I would like to point out that many western pleasure horses are bred to carry a naturally level headset. My mare (has cow horse bloodlines but still) almost always travels with a level top line, not because I've forced her into that position from gadgets or other training methods, but because that's the way she naturally carries herself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have cowbred horses too, but they have a little bit of run in them too...so they like to have their heads a little up. :/ When I use a martengale, it's adjusted so if the rein is straight from the bit when the horse's head is relaxed, the ring is equal with the rein...I don't really like the things either, Ink. A lot of those "tools" have had their uses so abused. I dunno. I use a tiedown for my roping mare for balance. And it's loose 80% of the time.

I just don't like how there was no release on the downward pressure of the martengale... my 3 year old would be very grumpy with that...she's probably try to buck me off or something. She hates being asked for the same thing constantly.
 

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Personally, I'm not a fan, but I'm not going to bash it or start a fight. I just saw this video of a person training their horse and saw the martengale and kinda just lost it. No wonder the horses head is so low. The martengale is much to tight for it! When/if I ever use a martengale it's for maybe the first 20 minutes of a couple rides, and it's set so that it will only actually do something if the horse tries to get it's head up in the air. But watching this video... I hardly see horses with their heads like that naturally, but having it tied that low.... :?

I dunno. I guess this is a bit of a rant. No offense to WP riders intended... It's just not my thing I guess. I think it's just some of the training that ruined WP for me. Oh, and the lack of speed, I like to go fast. :wink:

January 24, 2012 - YouTube
OK, first of all....do you have permission from the owner to post that video here and then ridicule it? That person in the vid happens to me a friend of mine. You are SO NOT COOL for posting that vid without her permission.
 

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You must not have spent much time on youtube if this is what you found to rant about. While I think it's an excellent example of what is wrong with western pleasure it's not an example of acute abusive behaviour.
 

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OK, first of all....do you have permission from the owner to post that video here and then ridicule it? That person in the vid happens to me a friend of mine. You are SO NOT COOL for posting that vid without her permission.
If it's on youtube it's fair game, gotta be careful what you release out to the public. Not for or against, just pointing out :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You must not have spent much time on youtube if this is what you found to rant about. While I think it's an excellent example of what is wrong with western pleasure it's not an example of acute abusive behaviour.
I don't think it's abusive. There is no beating, wicked spurring...ect, but I just don't like the martengale and how she chose to use it...
 

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If it's on youtube it's fair game, gotta be careful what you release out to the public. Not for or against, just pointing out :D

Agreed. We all post videos to share on this forum. Just because you know this person does not mean that it is all of a sudden the wrong thing to do. The point of youtube is to share videos with EVERYONE. you need to be able to handle the comments, good and bad, that come along with it.
 

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OK, first of all....do you have permission from the owner to post that video here and then ridicule it? That person in the vid happens to me a friend of mine. You are SO NOT COOL for posting that vid without her permission.
I also know the horse & rider in the video,so also was surprised to see the video posted:-(. That horse has a naturally low headset & quiet relaxed demeanor with or without the running martingale he would travel much the same.I do not see some overly low headset:).
 

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Following this thread to see if maybe I can learn a few things from the Western Pleasurers (Like that phrase? :lol:), not interested in doing it myself, but interested if a few new things can be learnt.
 

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I dont agree with the training, the judging, the gaits, the unnatural movements, or anything whatsoever about it, So really not interested in the training methods. I dont see anything at all I would ever want my horse to do.
If someone doenst want people lookiing at their videos, dont post them on Youtube.

But you start off by saying no disrespect and I dont wanna bash WP, then you proceed to bash WP.
I dont like it, many others dont. SOme people do. I dont see anything really abusive, just stuff I dont like or want my horse to do. To each his own
 

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I don't think it's abusive. There is no beating, wicked spurring...ect, but I just don't like the martengale and how she chose to use it...
Well, then why didn't you just email her or share a comment on her Youtube page?????? No, instead you come here, post a Youtube vid and then start ranking on it. Did you not have the nerve to open a discussion with her privately about how you don't like the way she uses the martingale???
 

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Agreed. We all post videos to share on this forum. Just because you know this person does not mean that it is all of a sudden the wrong thing to do. The point of youtube is to share videos with EVERYONE. you need to be able to handle the comments, good and bad, that come along with it.
Ok....so then you go post a vid on Youtube, send me the link...and then I'll post it on ANOTHER horse forum so people can rip it apart. Make sure you PM me with the link.
 

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I dont agree with the training, the judging, the gaits, the unnatural movements, or anything whatsoever about it, So really not interested in the training methods. I dont see anything at all I would ever want my horse to do.
Hey Joe, I think we have disagreed on things in the past, but I agree with you 1000% on this!

I can't stand the WP lope. If my horse ever did that I would kick him up in speed. Ugh! It's not graceful, it's not smooth, it doesn't look comfortable or natural for the horse. It's just plain awful. Doesn't anyone like the adrenaline rush of cantering anymore?

And since some of you know this horse, why oh why do they want it to move this way? I guess that's why I don't show. I will not make my horse into something I dislike to please someone else (a judge).
 

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Hey Joe, I think we have disagreed on things in the past, but I agree with you 1000% on this!

I can't stand the WP lope. If my horse ever did that I would kick him up in speed. Ugh! It's not graceful, it's not smooth, it doesn't look comfortable or natural for the horse. It's just plain awful. Doesn't anyone like the adrenaline rush of cantering anymore?

And since some of you know this horse, why oh why do they want it to move this way? I guess that's why I don't show. I will not make my horse into something I dislike to please someone else (a judge).
Do you know the WP industry at all? Well, I'll fill you in a little. It may not be your cup of tea, but it's the cup of tea for many people....me included. These horses are bred specifically to go slow naturally. If I hand gallop my WP horse, and I do to keep his mind fresh....he HATES IT! He was not bred for speed in mindset. He's bred with the right conformation AND mindset to go low and slow. Sure, there are a bunch out there that are being forced to go slow. But we all got a clue a LONG TIME ago that we can breed certain PROVEN bloodlines with the right conformation and mind.

ETA: and I don't MAKE my horse do something he dislikes to please a judge. We was bred for WP and that's what he does.
 

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I'm sorry but nothing beats a good WP lope. IF you've got a naturally slow legged horse that can get into a nice cadenced lope, it actually makes for a really nice ride. Yes there are some out there that look like crippled bobble heads, but that's not what is supposed to look like. Going fast can be fun, but slowing it down can be nice too. I always say don't bash it till you try it.
 

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All the WP people say that the crippled bobbleheads aren't what a WP horse really is but if you look at the horses that are winning both at local and national levels you see the cripple looking tropers.
 

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I'm no western rider - I have done it in the past but I mainly rode Reiners. Had a bash on a couple of pleasure horses and it was all too slow for my liking!!

How does the martingale effect the horses head position that much though? It seems a lot different to a standard english running martingale? I saw no strap around the neck?
Or is it exactly the same thing and I've got it all wrapped round my neck. From what I know of martingales (again only ever used them in english riding) is that they help keep the horse from raising its head too high. The horse can still raise its head though and they don't keep them down (especially not that low)

Am just curious to know how the martingale differs, if it does differ that is, to an english martingale and how it is keeping the horses head that low?!
 

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I don't want to get into a debate about the merits of WP but these horses are supposedly the best of the best and I can't see any of them that are in a true canter. Most are skipping with thier HQ. The outside hind leg is always trailing the inside hindleg and there is no engagement of the hindquarters or true collection.


Skip to about 8:00 to see the "loping".

 
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