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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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I know nothing about bloodlines but I must say poor boy. :( hope you get a bunch of weight on him and let him recoup before you start doing much with him. Whats his story?
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Holy withers.... I would NOT want to find a saddle for that horse. He is going to be VERY tough to fit.

Edit to add: at 11 years old and 39 starts I would be looking into a vet check and X-rays. He looks a bit rough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i got him from a guy who does not know how to feed a tb. I just got him the other day. his top line has a lot of filling out to do. I wont be riding him until he gets muscle up there. Ill figure out a saddle that fits lol.
 

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I do not know much about bloodlines in TBs but I will give you what I do know. Your horse is related to Native Dancer on both sides. He is known as a horse who passed on genes for weak leg bones. So don't take offense by me telling you this, I'm just giving you info. Barbaro, Eight Belles, Ruffian, Pine Island and Shenanigans were all related to him and all suffered fatal leg injures. Note Shenanigans was a broodmare at the time. I've met a handful of horses over the years that were related to this stallion and they did not have bone issues, I believe two were eventers (both since passed.)

Still Secretariat is a horse that was known to have strong legs, they often said he had legs like iron, so that may help to counter the Native Dancer blood. Bold Ruler was a mighty horse in his own right. He was related to the mighty Fair Play, sire of Man O' War, and that horse also proved to be very sound.

So your horse has notables in his pedigree and with the amount of Bold Ruler and Secretariat blood in him I'm sure that his genes will stay balanced and give you a good mount. Though it is to soon to tell what he will become, he's a shadow of his former self, you'll probably have lots of luck with him.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a know it all and or trying to scare you with worry about your new horse. I'm just giving random facts, some I did look up, on his blood lines. As I said before not all Native Dancer horse have that leg issue. I've looked up all the horses I've mentioned and out of them and noticed something. Pine Island, Barbaro and Eight Belles are all built very fine. Where's Ruffian and Shenanigans were built like tanks. What truly made Ruffian's break down fatal is that she refused to stop.

Pictures are in this order (left to right):
1. Bold Ruler
2. Native Dancer
3. Secretariat
4. Mr. Prospector (related to Native Dancer)
5. Northern Dancer
6. Fair Play
7. Hastings (sire of Fair Play)
8. Man O' War (not related to your guy but a prime example of what kind of horse Fair Play produced)

Fair Play
Hastings

Sorry for such a lengthy replay but you wanted answer about his bloodlines.

Also I like his blood lines (lots of well known racers in there.) I wish you guys both good luck in your adventures together :).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I do not know much about bloodlines in TBs but I will give you what I do know. Your horse is related to Native Dancer on both sides. He is known as a horse who passed on genes for weak leg bones. So don't take offense by me telling you this, I'm just giving you info. Barbaro, Eight Belles, Ruffian, Pine Island and Shenanigans were all related to him and all suffered fatal leg injures. Note Shenanigans was a broodmare at the time. I've met a handful of horses over the years that were related to this stallion and they did not have bone issues, I believe two were eventers (both since passed.)

Still Secretariat is a horse that was known to have strong legs, they often said he had legs like iron, so that may help to counter the Native Dancer blood. Bold Ruler was a mighty horse in his own right. He was related to the mighty Fair Play, sire of Man O' War, and that horse also proved to be very sound.

So your horse has notables in his pedigree and with the amount of Bold Ruler and Secretariat blood in him I'm sure that his genes will stay balanced and give you a good mount. Though it is to soon to tell what he will become, he's a shadow of his former self, you'll probably have lots of luck with him.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a know it all and or trying to scare you with worry about your new horse. I'm just giving random facts, some I did look up, on his blood lines. As I said before not all Native Dancer horse have that leg issue. I've looked up all the horses I've mentioned and out of them and noticed something. Pine Island, Barbaro and Eight Belles are all built very fine. Where's Ruffian and Shenanigans were built like tanks. What truly made Ruffian's break down fatal is that she refused to stop.

Pictures are in this order (left to right):
1. Bold Ruler
2. Native Dancer
3. Secretariat
4. Mr. Prospector (related to Native Dancer)
5. Northern Dancer
6. Fair Play
7. Hastings (sire of Fair Play)
8. Man O' War (not related to your guy but a prime example of what kind of horse Fair Play produced)

Fair Play
Hastings

Sorry for such a lengthy replay but you wanted answer about his bloodlines.

Also I like his blood lines (lots of well known racers in there.) I wish you guys both good luck in your adventures together :).
wow thank you! that tells me a lot! What about Fappiano? Do you know much about him? I am not good at conformation. Do you think my gelding takes after northern dancers bad legs or secretariats "iron" legs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Holy withers.... I would NOT want to find a saddle for that horse. He is going to be VERY tough to fit.

Edit to add: at 11 years old and 39 starts I would be looking into a vet check and X-rays. He looks a bit rough.
he stopped racing in 2008. he looks rough because the previous owner did not feed him correctly and never had his teeth floated. I had my farrier look him over today (him and my vet are basically partners and he has been training racehorses for many many years) and he said his legs look and feel really clean despite his racing career. he also said his hooves got lucky and are pretty good for a tb. I will be taking him to my vet anyways though for coggins so ill have dr.Y check his legs out :)
 

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Congrats on your new horse! He's very handsome and as far as him looking rough, I have seen much worse. My mare was skin on bone and her spirit was broken. I'm sure he will be fine under your care. If you are interested you can probably find some of his racing videos. I don't know a lot about bloodlines but wanted to wish you well with him
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Congrats on your new horse! He's very handsome and as far as him looking rough, I have seen much worse. My mare was skin on bone and her spirit was broken. I'm sure he will be fine under your care. If you are interested you can probably find some of his racing videos. I don't know a lot about bloodlines but wanted to wish you well with him
well thank you! I have been looking for videos but all these sites want my money in exchange!
 

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Agree with the vet check but mainly for the general health (he probably needs his teeth looked at). That many starts dose not always mean unsound. I know a gelding named Wishinonastar, who was raced 66 times and was retired at 13. He is healthy (despite a self inflicted injury) and has strong legs. If he has no leg issues now I would assume he has good strong legs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Agree with the vet check but mainly for the general health (he probably needs his teeth looked at). That many starts dose not always mean unsound. I know a gelding named Wishinonastar, who was raced 66 times and was retired at 13. He is healthy (despite a self inflicted injury) and has strong legs. If he has no leg issues now I would assume he has good strong legs.
I just had his teeth floated today. He had sharp points and now they're all smoothed out! We also cleaned his "manhood" and found a few beans. And had his feet trimmed. He's had a busy day! Lol
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I don't know a lot about lines. My mare has a lot (too much) Northern Dancer in her but she has an excellent temperament, and others I've met with Northern Dancer seem well tempered as well. However, my mare is a bit built "down hill" which I'm guessing comes from his lines, and she's a bit chunkier - not really what you'd look for in an eventer.

She's also a Secretariat great grand-daughter.

I don't know anything about Pine Bluff, but I hear good things about Danehill, another Danzig progeny.

Bloodlines can be helpful, but in Thoroughbreds there isn't a whole lot to go on. There are so many out of successful stallions it's hard to know if there really are trends or it's just luck of the draw. Even the most regarded lines aren't bred for eventing or jumping or anything - they just happen to seem better at it, and having one good performance stud back a few generations might hardly impact the horse. It's not like purpose bred performance breeds where they are bred for a purpose and type - TBs are first foremost bred for racing.

Judge the horse in front of you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I don't know a lot about lines. My mare has a lot (too much) Northern Dancer in her but she has an excellent temperament, and others I've met with Northern Dancer seem well tempered as well. However, my mare is a bit built "down hill" which I'm guessing comes from his lines, and she's a bit chunkier - not really what you'd look for in an eventer.

She's also a Secretariat great grand-daughter.

I don't know anything about Pine Bluff, but I hear good things about Danehill, another Danzig progeny.

Bloodlines can be helpful, but in Thoroughbreds there isn't a whole lot to go on. There are so many out of successful stallions it's hard to know if there really are trends or it's just luck of the draw. Even the most regarded lines aren't bred for eventing or jumping or anything - they just happen to seem better at it, and having one good performance stud back a few generations might hardly impact the horse. It's not like purpose bred performance breeds where they are bred for a purpose and type - TBs are first foremost bred for racing.

Judge the horse in front of you.
I think my guy will turn out more uphill. I've heard about a lot of people who really look for and snatch up fappiano lines. It's just always so great to be able to know where they came from! I'm guessing more luck of the draw but there are some traits that do get passed down.
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I've heard some people say that Fappiano was the best offspring out of Mr. Prospector. However, on a handful of websites I've also seen them mention that he needed to be bred to mares with real strong legs, probably due to the whole Native Dancer thing. He set a record at Meadowlands Racetrack that still stands today. He is best known however as a "sire of sires". He sire Unbridled and was the grandsire of two "Triple crown" winners in the same year. Real Quiet won the 1998 Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Victory Gallop won the Belmont Stakes. Also the grandsire of Pepper's Pride who held the record of 19 consecutive wins. He was humanly put to sleep following "complications" with laminits in 1990.

Fappiano was a descendent of Dr. Fager. Dr. Fager is the only horse to win four different titles in one year. He won 18 out of 22 starts, his only out of place was because he had been disqualified. Famous for his duels with Damascus at Aqueduct Racetrack. In Blood Horse magazine's top 100 Thoroughbred Champions of the 20th century Dr. Fager is number 6. Inducted into the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame in 1971. He passed away suddenly at age 12 after a bout of colic.

Pictures (left to right):
1. Fappiano
2. Dr. Fager
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've heard some people say that Fappiano was the best offspring out of Mr. Prospector. However, on a handful of websites I've also seen them mention that he needed to be bred to mares with real strong legs, probably due to the whole Native Dancer thing. He set a record at Meadowlands Racetrack that still stands today. He is best known however as a "sire of sires". He sire Unbridled and was the grandsire of two "Triple crown" winners in the same year. Real Quiet won the 1998 Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Victory Gallop won the Belmont Stakes. Also the grandsire of Pepper's Pride who held the record of 19 consecutive wins. He was humanly put to sleep following "complications" with laminits in 1990.

Fappiano was a descendent of Dr. Fager. Dr. Fager is the only horse to win four different titles in one year. He won 18 out of 22 starts, his only out of place was because he had been disqualified. Famous for his duels with Damascus at Aqueduct Racetrack. In Blood Horse magazine's top 100 Thoroughbred Champions of the 20th century Dr. Fager is number 6. Inducted into the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame in 1971. He passed away suddenly at age 12 after a bout of colic.

Pictures (left to right):
1. Fappiano
2. Dr. Fager
Fappiano was one handsome guy. On sport horse data base, If you look up lil's lad (my horses sire) he is also really good looking. Grr I wish people would take better care of their horses! My guy looks so poor right now
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well thank you! I have been looking for videos but all these sites want my money in exchange!
You might try You Tube.. I found a couple of my girls races on there. Not a winner but still fun to watch. She wasn't much of a money maker! It was fun researching her Dam and Sire. Her Sire,Trippi stands as a stud in S. Africa now. Have fun with your boy!
 

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I've owned and bred horse with Northern Dancer, Secretariat & Bold Ruler in their blood lines and they were all very good jumping horses - one was better suited to dressage
They all had very good conformation though and I have to agree that horses withers are extreme.
He'll look a lot better with more flesh on his bones
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I know it's an old thread but it's a good way to see how far he has come and so the posters here can see how he's turned out. I've had him for 3 months so far. He has put on SO MUCH WEIGHT. He is at the trainers right now (dressage foundation) and he is doing marvelous. He was a hot nervous thing at first but I think he just needed a job and now he goes quietly into his sessions and listens and pays attention :). He has turned out to be a nice horse. The trainer loves him. He's a sweet heart although he doesn't like his ears handled. And I never noticed it before but both nostrils have old rips in them. We are thinking he is ear shy because he was forced into the racing chute (is that what they call it?) by his ears or his nose. Or it could be from the previous owners (idiots). Anyways here is LD now :).
Horse Mammal Mane Mare Stallion
 

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