I would class myself as a 'No Nonsense Nancy' I guess.

I do not suffer foolish behaviour gladly! However I do have the patience of Job. Whilst one horse might need a firm hand, another showing the same behaviours might need time and a stillness.

Asfor you, I think you have a natural empathy. At the moment you are inclined to over think a problem trying to see the horse's view, which is no bad thing by any means, rather than letting your natural, instinctive reaction come through,

A friend of mine had a big show cob she had just bought. He was a strong type and had, with her become fairly mannerless. She called on him one day and as she was sat on him he was fidgeting and barging around. When he walked towards me I stepped into him and with a hoofpick in hand stuck it in his chest making him go back to where he was first halted. Val asked me why I had done that. I told her that it is where he had been asked to stand and she had allowed him to move around and fuss around and I would not have him walk into me.

After several minutes of chatting that horse hadn't moved from the spot.

Incident,y, I have never heard of Sharon Wilsie!

 

I would class myself as a 'No Nonsense Nancy' I guess.
I do not suffer foolish behaviour gladly! However I do have the patience of Job. Whilst one horse might need a firm hand, another showing the same behaviours might need time and a stillness.

Yup...
I too am much like Foxhunter.
I don't "follow" any of the hyped, marketed or names known today as trainers.
I follow good horseman who quietly produce good riding animals, have good repoire with clients and their animals and who can teach me what I need to know.
:runninghorse2:...
jmo...

 

I might be like Alice from the Brady Bunch. Keep smiling, try to make things better with the right food, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
She said "If there's anything I can't stand, it's a perfect kid." I believe she was using sarcasm to cope with the fact that the kids would never be perfect. That is similar to my philosophy. Trying to cover the chaos with a smile, but accepting that horses are never completely predictable, and often changes come slowly.

 

No Nonsense Nancy here, LoL......

Like Christmas Eve when the new Boarder Beast decided to revert to silly, don’t touch me tactics, while I was clamping my toes in my boots to keep from sliding in the mud....Sissy KNEW the strong arm was about to come DOWN,(and she hates him....) and she stayed on the end of her lead headed to the barn, with her head down. He didn’t try shoving me but ONCE.

Then Christmas morning, I was taking off his blanket, and by golly, when I said WHOA, stand, he did not MOVE while I walked across the barn aisle and hung the blanket, not one foot. I then went over and got him a couple of cookies, treated him, and we went out to pasture. No push, no pull. They learn quickly if you are CLEAR in your intentions.

 

I don't sweat the small stuff. I once watched a video with Buck Brannaman where he said about bit adjustment, "I like zero wrinkles because when I do this," (picks up reins with two fingers), "I want it to mean something."

As a recreational rider, I can afford to generalize this. The more I am in neutral during a ride, the more it "means something" when I do give an aid. That principle alone got me a lot of fun rides that ended with big smiles for me and a relaxed horse, with my own horse and with a handful of others.

Of course, that also means that if I do give an aid, I must make sure that it does mean something to the horse. For example, if a horse swings his butt into me during grooming, first I'm tapping my hand to his flank to remind him that there is a small predator there, but if that doesn't work, it's "elbow to the ribs" until he catches on.

 

@Foxhunter I’m not sure I’ll ever stop overthinking horses, since I overthink everything else. LOL. It’s probably because I’m a writer that I see everything as a dramatic story, complete with archetypal heroes, themes and conflict.

I do think all the trainers who get popular enough to do videos tap into some kind of archetypal hero/leader. Whether it’s the swashbuckler (like Chris Pratt in Jurassic World), the wise king (Yoda,) the warrior-survivor-with-a-heart-of-gold (Mal in Firefly) or the steely-eyed general.

If they didnt adopt an archetypal persona, no one would watch them or gravitate towards them. The human mind loves a story.

 

@Foxhunter I’m not sure I’ll ever stop overthinking horses, since I overthink everything else. LOL. It’s probably because I’m a writer that I see everything as a dramatic story, complete with archetypal heroes, themes and conflict.

I do think all the trainers who get popular enough to do videos tap into some kind of archetypal hero/leader. Whether it’s the swashbuckler (like Chris Pratt in Jurassic World), the wise king (Yoda,) the warrior-survivor-with-a-heart-of-gold (Mal in Firefly) or the steely-eyed general.

If they didnt adopt an archetypal persona, no one would watch them or gravitate towards them. The human mind loves a story.

I think only the perceiver does the archtyping.

There is a lot of mimicry going on, from each trainer , who undoubtedly mimics the mannerisms of the person who trained them.


I found this really irksome when I audited for one day a Buck clinic; his sycophants were all walking and talking and dressing and outfitting their horses to look like 'The Dear Leader'. Gah!

 

I can be Gen. Patton (old Blood & Guts) or Yoda. Depends on what the horse needs at the moment. I was taught the 3 second rule. You react within 3 seconds and you only react for 3 seconds.

Also let the punishment fix the crime. Like biting and kicking are felonies. I am anal about those two behaviors. Misdemeanors like rubbing their head against your back , muzzling you neck,, lipping you . A Loud NO usually gets their attention. But the last 3 I mentioned are also just the horse communicating with another horse.

So you have to kind of understand where that particular horse is coming from.
I have handled stallions that were as mild mannered as you could ever wish for and others that you wished they made shock collars for that would put them on their knees.

Personality's are different in every horse. Same as people. I also have meet people you would like to see have a shock collar on them. And you have the controller.

 

Also let the punishment fix the crime. Like biting and kicking are felonies. I am anal about those two behaviors.

Yeah, I really have no choice but to use observation and gentle correction to prevent kicking and biting, since I am nowhere near experienced enough to know how to correctly “punish” a horse for either thing.

I’ve been both bitten and kicked. The latter just glanced me. It was more of a kick in my direction. The bite really hurt, though, and I’m really glad I was wearing jeans, not shorts.

Both occurrences were 100% my fault, though. The bite happened because I went out in the dark to check on Old man. It was a new moon, and I couldnt see ANYTHING.

I didnt even think I’d be able to FIND the horses, so I used my iPhone flashlight. When I put on Old Man’s coat, he felt hot. And I (like the newby idiot I was) reached for Aria’s belly to see if she felt a different temperature. >.<

Maybe a less-green horse wouldnt have bitten, but it really was sooooooo stupid on my part.

But, yeah. I’m really anal about AVOIDING aggressive behavior. As in, catching any aggression well before it happens and heading it off. Because, as I said, I’m not equipped to properly deal with it after-the-fact.

 

I like a lot of the more natural horse training techniques but some just don't work for me. Like repeating the same thing over and over 100X just makes both me and my horse crazy. And I never liked the idea of having to buy some trainer's stuff like their brand is the only one that works. That said I do subscribe to Clinton Anderson's newsletter and he has a lot of great advice.

I don't know what kind of leader I am though. I am more passive by nature but have great respect for horses and try to be aware of their body language at all times. This helps prevent a lot of potential problems. Also I find with pushy, in your space horses it helps to wave my arms so I look bigger, take a step towards them and say "Back!" That really gets their attention and they back up all wide eyed and wondering what I'm going to do. LOL! Works for me so far anyway.

 

I am not a believer in animal communicators. I have only met a couple amd to my mind they were both con artists though both had high reputations for being able to tell you what a horse was thinking.

I do however, believe at animals will communicate with humans if the human is open to learning a new language. This is not a verbal communication but a mental or action one.

I could walk into a stable to saddle a horse and see it move away from the saddle being placed. This could mean two things, was the horse just being bolshy or, was it trying to tall me the saddle didn't fit? Their actions might well look identical to most, it was being able to pick up on the subtle differences that counted.

I never gave it a thought as to writing a book about my methods, yet in the horse racing industry I had a high reputation for being good with 'difficult' animals. Although my methods would be basically the same, each horse was an individual and treated as such. I wanted them on my team, I wanted them enjoying the game as much as I did, so, I had to be open to discussion with them all.

 

I try to be what my horse needs me to be, that changes from horse to horse, and day to day with the same horse.

 

Golden Horse beat me to it!

My horses aren't the same from day to day. I am as kind, light and encouraging as possible, and as firm, stern and insistent on good behavior as necessary.

 

I try to understand where each horse is coming from and give them what they need to get better. My pony needs kindness and patience, yes, but also a lot of firmness and a fairly constant reminder of who is the boss, because if I'm not the boss then that must mean he is, and we don't want that. My new horse needed a lot of kindness, patience and softness, but he also needed to know that I was a leader because he needed someone to trust in and feel safe with. He needed someone who would be a soft and patient leader, whereas the pony needs someone who's willing to smack him every now and then to keep him in his place.g

(I wrote about my pony in the present tense because we're still working on this, every single day; my new horse Teddy is in the past tense because I think we've worked through most of that and I'm now working on reminding him of how to be a good riding horse).

My daughter's mare needs someone to treat her like the intelligent and level-headed mare that she is. Don't ask her to do something 50 times in a row if she gets it the second try, don't over-explain things to her, don't treat her like an infant. Explain something once or twice to her, expect her to get it -- and she does. She needs someone to be the leader, too, or she will take over that position (although not with the disastrous results that come from my pony trying to take over), but treat her with respect and you will gain her respect.

I also tend to err on the side of being too "nice," but I'm working on that. My goal is to be "just right" with whatever horse I'm working with. I don't know who that makes me as a leader.

 

whereas the pony needs someone who's willing to smack him every now and then to keep him in his place.g

Small horses (like small dogs) always seem to be the naughtiest.

 

@Foxhunter I imagine that a lot of people who are very good at what they do dont really know how it is they do it. Same with reading horse body language. An experienced horse person understands non-verbal communication w a horse. Inperienced people don’t.

Somehow my husband manages to get picked on by horses and/or piss them off any time he is near them. LOL. I started riding lessons age 5, so I can’t imagine what it is my husband could possibly be doing But if I even take my eyes off him around a horse, somehow things go wonky.

 

@pasomountain
Agreed. Some techniques feel super annoying to me, and I figure that if I’m annoyed, I’m probably acting like I dont really want to be doing them. Which is a mixed message to give a horse.

 

I can be Easy Peasy or No Nonsense Nancy as each individual situation calls for, the trick is to know how to call them. Some horses need to be told firmly, no caving in, how to behave while another needs reassurance that they are doing right.

With new horses in the barn I have a non negotional procedure manual where proper manners and way of doing things is set in stone (such as not rushing through doorways, moving over when I ask and be attentive when I am leading them, even without a halter or coming into the barn single file and not pushing others out of the way) and it's surprising how quickly the new ones catch on as I keep to a certain way of doing things then as the horse is listening well things can slack off a bit but by then they know what is expected of them.

sis has 5 little granddaughters and the horses have to know how to behave and have good manners.

 

Yeah, its always a judgement call on what a horse needs.

For me, its been helpful to learn body language, as I’m pretty convinced my Aria acts out due to fear, as opposed to dominance.

I’ve been trying to get a “good” picture of her, but it’s impossible, since she is ALWAYS in a splayed-out, worried stance.

Amusingly, her pal, Old Man, stands like a horse. His feet are directly under him. He’s far more confident. He’d probably never bite or kick, but I’d be way more scared if he did.

 

Yeah, its always a judgement call on what a horse needs.

For me, its been helpful to learn body language, as I’m pretty convinced my Aria acts out due to fear, as opposed to dominance.

.

But why the fear? Could be that she is worried that you are not acting like a confident leader for her, and she thinks she has to make decisions....

Biggest mistake I made with my last horse, big red mare, was trying to be her buddy. Turned out she wasn’t into having buddies, her life was about lead, or be led, and she would prefer to lead to be honest!

 

I am the alpha boss mare. I am always large-and-in-charge, I am there to feed, guide, and protect. I always get total respect interspersed with lots of mutual affection.

 

I think some horses, like some humans, have low stress tolerances.

 

I guess I'm another No-Nonsense Nancy with a side of Job's patience. I also agree that every horse and every situation are different.


Example: my two chestnut mares who are nearly identical and BFFs both want to steal my geldings food every morning. He's the most mellow alpha horse I've ever known. Every morning, I stand near him to defend his food from those two mares. A simple "Susie, quit!" and maybe a clap of my hands sends her back 5 paces or out the door. However, "Sunny, move!" and a hard smack on the chest will make her move one hoof back. If I chase her out of the barn with a lunge whip, she's back 10 seconds later. They're both sweet horses, but their discipline thresholds are very different.


Another example: Sunny was being ridden in a lesson by a little boy. She bucked (pathetically), but my response was to the boy. "Boy, if you keep kicking her when she's already trotting, she's going to get annoyed. Just cluck to her. She'll go. The more gentle you are with her, the more gentle she'll be with you." Another time she bucked (also pathetically) in a lesson with a different kid, but that time it was just because of a bad attitude. I had the kid dismount, and I lunged Sunny around by the reins for about a minute until the response to "whoa" was an immediate stop with two eyes and two ears saying "Yes ma'am! What now?" Same problem, same horse, two different situations, two different responses. Both ended with a happy well-behaved horse and a happy rider.


The more time you spend around horses, the more you'll learn to read their body language. Some horses, like Sunny, telegraph their intentions long before they do anything. A shift in weight or a pinned ear can tell you a lot. That body language determines the best response. Does the horse have a bad attitude, or is it human error? Often the most effective correction happens the second before the horse does something wrong. The look on Sunny's face every morning is priceless when I correct her the moment before she steps towards the gelding's food, "How did she know?"

 

In answer to the original question I would like to say I was good trainer!

One thing I did with the horses was to get them to 'blame' me for spooky things. I did things like go to feed them carrying a golfing umbrella, kicked a soccer ball in the loose barn all around the youngsters, had an old football rattle which made a heck of a racket so that when something occurred they looked at me as if to say "What's the heck is she up to now?"

I loved my evening time with the horses in winter. I would go down to do a late check, usually between 9 and 10, I would feed those that had a late feed, and skip out all in stables.

One night the youngsters had pulled a bale wrap into the loose area. I went in and picked it up. They were all around me and one took the wrap in his teeth and was holding on. I threw the wrap over his head and neck and it went over him and another yearling with a weaner between them and non moved a muscle.

They just accepted what I did to them because they trusted me.

 

I'm a pretty laid back person but can amp it up when the situation calls for it. I'm with @RegalCharm in that there are certain actions that earn corporal punishment. If they are doing anything with the intention to harm as in biting or kicking, they are going to wish the thought had never entered their mind in the first place. I've had all my current horses long enough that they rarely need more than a low and loud AAAAAA and even rarer a light smack to emphasize it because they didn't stop their undesired action fast enough.

 

I like to be very calm, a ‘leader’ to the horses but also a companion of sorts. But It also depends on the situation, if the situation calls for it, then I will amp it up- like another poster said- I like to talk to the horses alot, other girls at the barn look at me like Im crazy but thats alright 😉