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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
They implemented the reforms. But today a horse breaks both front fetlocks and needs to be euthanized on the track.

Obviously not good and here they get ready to keep racing.
 

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I truly don’t know, but watching Laffitt and Randy on the national broadcast try to talk through the news was one of the most uncomfortable moments of live TV I can recall seeing in a long time.

Whether it’s rational or whether it’s fair, if I were making decisions for the Breeders Cup no way I’d let it happen at Santa Anita.

What a sad day.
 

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Apparently the horse in question had already had at least one leg surgery and ongoing soundness problems. He should never have been on the track. I think racing at Santa Anita is doomed. The track sits on unbelievably valuable land, Belinda Stronach wants to dump it, the AR folks are slavering at the loss of horses, horse people outside or racing are ho-hum about racing and not supporting it, the racing industry continues to shoot itself in the foot with it's lack of transparency and oversight and continuing to let horses with issues race and train and hiding their heads in the sand, and the state of California has already bowed down to the AR nuts on so many occasions, I can't see this being any different.

If ONE horse is injured at the Breeder's Cup, the public outcry will be unfathomable to end racing at SA, and thus, California.
 

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Apparently the horse in question had already had at least one leg surgery and ongoing soundness problems. He should never have been on the track. I think racing at Santa Anita is doomed. The track sits on unbelievably valuable land, Belinda Stronach wants to dump it, the AR folks are slavering at the loss of horses, horse people outside or racing are ho-hum about racing and not supporting it, the racing industry continues to shoot itself in the foot with it's lack of transparency and oversight and continuing to let horses with issues race and train and hiding their heads in the sand, and the state of California has already bowed down to the AR nuts on so many occasions, I can't see this being any different.

If ONE horse is injured at the Breeder's Cup, the public outcry will be unfathomable to end racing at SA, and thus, California.
A fair assessment I think.

Racing reminds me of Big Lick in so many ways -- the seedy underside, the wall of silence, the money, the presented face of tradition, excitement and glory, the suffering of the horses.
 

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And without racing, within a decade or two not many people will be able to afford horses. In a shrinking horse industry, you take out the big segment, guess what? Less areas zoned for horses less people growing hay and on you go. If this happens within a few decades only the very rich will be able to afford horses.
 

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Some breakdowns are inevitable -- these are horses, after all. But racing refusing to oversee itself adequately screams of greed and corruption and lack of concern for the animals that the public is tired of. When even other horse industry people loathe racing, that's a problem.
 

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Maybe it's just because I live in Arizona and horse racing isn't that big, but I really don't see how even if horse racing collapsed it would ruin the pleasure horse industry. Sure, there would probably be some trickle down, in stuff like medical research, because I suppose the big money in racing supports top-of-the-line equine medical care, but let's face it, most people can't afford that anyway.

What else.........cheap horses? People are always complaining on here there are too many cheap horses already (although I don't necessarily see that in my area.......there is always a market for a well trained horse).

So I don't know. It would be sad to see it go, but on the other hand, I kind of see horse racing as antiquated. And I really don't understand it on a personal level as a horse-lover. It seems to be motivated by gambling money rather than the love of the horse. As soon as I say that, someone will come along and say how much race horse owners love their horses........and I'm sure some of them do. But let's face it, it isn't the average Joe taking his backyard horse to the track anymore just for a match-up with fellow owners......or is it? But that's not the impression I get.

I do know one person that got an ex-race horse as a pleasure mount. (He was a lovely trail horse with a great disposition and terrible feet). But does that justify supporting an entire industry? As a horse lover, I really see no reason to support racing and nothing much in common with the people that do. :shrug: But that's just me.

For a long time I wondered why the Tennessee Walking Horse industry didn't rebrand itself as the Cadillac of trail horses. That seems like it would be a pretty easy switch. But horse racing is kind of stuck. I don't know how they would even go about changing their image. And like someone else said, if a horse person doesn't care about racing one way or the other.........that really doesn't bode well.
 

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And without racing, within a decade or two not many people will be able to afford horses. In a shrinking horse industry, you take out the big segment, guess what? Less areas zoned for horses less people growing hay and on you go. If this happens within a few decades only the very rich will be able to afford horses.

This is an interesting quote. Here where I live I don't know of anyone with race horses. I believe it's only a very tiny segment of the horse industry in Arizona. But you know what runs our hay industry? Dairy. I'm told that's why we have all this alfalfa here in this state. If we lost the dairies, we would probably be hurt more.

I honestly don't know what keeps the horse industry going in Arizona. Ropers? Retirees? People like me that have loved horses since they were 5 years old? I don't know. But rodeo seems more popular that racing.
 

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This is an interesting quote. Here where I live I don't know of anyone with race horses. I believe it's only a very tiny segment of the horse industry in Arizona. But you know what runs our hay industry? Dairy. I'm told that's why we have all this alfalfa here in this state. If we lost the dairies, we would probably be hurt more.

I honestly don't know what keeps the horse industry going in Arizona. Ropers? Retirees? People like me that have loved horses since they were 5 years old? I don't know. But rodeo seems more popular that racing.
Don't localize it. That segment of the horse industry is at the top, we at the bottom, have the trickle-down effect. Well Rodeo is near the top not everybody knows the top winners in Rodeo, but everyone knows the name Secretariat. Not every Rodeo event is televised live, but every leg of the triple Crown sure is.
 
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I personally don't participate in either rodeo or racing. I'm just saying racing isn't a big thing around here. If racing ended tomorrow, I really don't think it would have much, if any, effect on me or most anyone around here. :shrug: Loosing racing would be sad, but I have a hard time thinking it would be the end of the horse world as we know it. Sure, everyone has heard of Secretariat. But hearing about Secretariat and actually participating or even watching horse racing........how many people do that anymore? I just don't feel any common ground with the racing industry. It's like being a dog owner vs. participating in Greyhound racing.......the two have little in common.


I don't have a dog in the fight either way. It will be interesting to see if things get better or if Santa Anita ultimately fails. I hope it doesn't.........but I get tired about hearing about the break downs all the time too. That makes me feel terrible as a horse lover.
 

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Hmmm, how can put this so you get what I mean. Okay I will adapt from a famous speech.

"First they came for the horse racing industry and I did not speak out---because I don't race.

Then they came for the rodeo folks and i did not speak out--- because I don't rodeo.

Then they came for show jumpers and I did not speak out---because I don't jump.

Then they came for me---and there was no one left to speak for me.
 

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I bet I could use the same argument to justify big lick. "First they ban big lick, then they will ban showing in general, then pretty soon we can't ride at all!" But all that does is create an argument where you could justify almost anything.


https://www.bettercognitions.com/articles/slippery-slope-fallacy-examples/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/162/Slippery_Slope


I don't feel like I need to be lumped in with either big lick or racing. They created their bed and they will sleep in it. I have horses because I love horses. Not because they are a business. I don't feel like I need to defend an industry that is bigger than me and has little to do with me. I hope most race horse folks love their horses and have their best interest at heart. Most of them probably do. But it's a totally different mindset than someone who has horses for pleasure.

I guess I contend than horse racing is to pleasure riding like Greyhound racing to owning a dog as a pet. Yes, the both include dogs but that's about it.
 

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I totally get the ‘first they come for the racing.....’ line of thought but if certain areas of that horse sport don’t clean up their act fast then they will come for it and as a horse lover it would be hard not to say it wasn’t deserved.
My grandfather owned racehorses, he was passionate about the sport and if not for that I would probably have never found my way into riding but I would rather see it banned than see continuing abuse if they can’t get their heads in gear and do something that makes a difference.
 

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I agree with the post first they come for racing -etc


Horse racing is not big here where I live either - other than the televised betting at the casinos. BUT reform must happen in all avenues of the horse industry. All breeds. There are deaths and mutilation in all aspects of the "money" part of the horse world. Not just racing 2 year olds too soon. Not just horrible weights and shoes on the Big Lick Horses. There is tail deadening, there is tail "spicing" There are numbing injections so the horse can perform. There are mouth closers so the horse cannot get relief from heavy harsh hands.

For those at the bottom like me (just a trail rider) it all seems so far away and something I cannot help tackle but in the end we must - because the trickle down effect will happen. And when most of your population lives in big cities and only sees items on the news their votes count more than mine. Use the horse slaughter debate as an example. We ended horse slaughter - people patted themselves on the back and walked away. They don't see the horses in pens waiting to be shipped in horrible conditions for hundreds of miles to go across the border into another country. The refuse to believe it happens. But it does.
 

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The slippery slope argument is so often used to double down on inexcusable behavior that I can't give it much credence. Wouldn't it be better to overhaul racing and oversee it such that damage to horses is demonstrably, transparently, brought to an absolute minimum, than to try your best to defend the indefensible, under the banner of Slippery Slope? Wouldn't that be more reassuring to the public, more sound an argument to bring up in court, and of course, more humane?

If people looked for solutions instead of enemies .....

Racing is not the powerhouse it was even ten years ago much less fifty. It is plummeting in popularity for reasons that have nothing to do with horse injuries. One of the largest reasons is that online gambling has bomed; you don't have to go to the track to bet. And gambling has always been the real reason for horse racing.

As far as I can tell anecdotally, horse racing doesn't contribute much of anything to the pleasure horse industry at all, except a glut of Thoroughbreds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
UA is a HUGE breeding outpost for horse racing. It certainly plays a role in west coast horse racing!

Also re the comment about if SA falls that California falls... well yes and no. There's other tracks. Del Mar is, and has the potential to be real huge. They implemented the same stuff as SA but they have't had any injuries. Just switch the spotlight over.

There's Los Alamitos. You wanna know where everyone goes when they hate SA? Los Al! It's small, but gets the job done, and they have room for more animals. Most trainers at SA have other horses at Los Al. There's just not as big of bucks at Los Al.

Then there Golden Gate, and honestly I've lives 10 minutes from this place for a while now and I have no idea what goes on there... Might be time to find out!

As for the horse, they said on the livecast that it had been checked out by a vet before the race and had the OK to go. Not so strange that it had some previous injuries.
 

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Hmmm, how can put this so you get what I mean. Okay I will adapt from a famous speech.

"First they came for the horse racing industry and I did not speak out---because I don't race.

Then they came for the rodeo folks and i did not speak out--- because I don't rodeo.

Then they came for show jumpers and I did not speak out---because I don't jump.

Then they came for me---and there was no one left to speak for me.
Exactly. Right now the AR people are focused on racing, but rodeo is not far behind, and is another segment of the industry that a lot of people are either lackadaisical about or think is downright cruel because they don't know anything about it. I guarantee you that once racing is done, rodeo is next. I think everyone agrees that racing needs to clean up its act and figure out how to give itself some accountability and oversight, but as horse people, we need to support each other or there will be no one to support us. The industry as a whole is struggling-- increased costs of ownership, climate change affecting feed and pasture, huge amount of land lost to urbanization every day, fewer kids entering the industry, loss of trails and riding areas, increased legislation and lawsuits concerning horses, etc. We can't just stick our heads in the sand and say "Oh, I don't know anyone involved in horse racing; it doesn't matter to me." The trickle-down effect is huge-- think of the feed suppliers, growers, medical research, and employment in the racing industry. Want a good horse vet? Most of those advances in things like colic surgery, laminitis, and reproduction came about because of the racing industry. I don't think people realize how much of the economy is linked to horse racing; especially in some areas of the country. We may think racing doesn't affect us, but as horse owners and lovers, it does. We can't just say 'its not about us' because it is.
 

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IDK. As racing is collapsing, the western disciplines seem to be on the rise: Reining, Cutting, Sorting, barrel racing, roping, that sort of thing.


Thoroughbreds aren't the only horses in the world (Yes, I know other breeds race too, but TBs are king in racing) - I think the pleasure riders are going to be on the rise for a while, especially as cities and counties, states, even the feds continue to open 'public land' to riding.


The problem I see with the western disciplines is there are quarter horses with bad feet, PSSM, navicular and on it goes, are being allowed to be bred to keep the lines going (But also the problems) and they may find themselves in much the same boat in another 20-30 years. AQHA needs to get their crap together and get off their snooty high horse and allow some stouter blood to be bred into QHs.
 
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