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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My worst fears are realized as I am now dealing with white line disease in one of my horses. Her history - she suffered from chronic founder at her previous owners place and chronic scratches as well. She was left on a lush pasture 24/7 year round and foundered dramatically in all 4 feet spring 2016. We purchased her that spring as a rescue case and have had great luck with bringing her around and riding her. She wore shoes up until late last fall at our vets recommendation - but the shoes would never really stay on due to shelly hoof wall and chronic spreading of the weak hoof wall. I took over her trimming and rasp back her feet every couple weeks to help bring her toes back and try to get the flare on her quarters lessened. What looked like to me over the winter as seedy toe has moved onto full blown white line disease. I am not confident enough o debride the hoof wall off and will try to find a better farrier to do so - that will be a struggle in my area.

In the mean time I am asking for tried and true whiteline and scratches treatments. I am currently using Equiderma on the scratches with mixed results.

Before anyone asks about nutrition the mare gets only grass hay and has access almost 24/7, she gets limited pasture time and wears a grazing muzzle when on pasture, gets very little to no grain but does get Timothy and Beet Pulp soaked to carry her Remission supplement.

We are pastern deep in mud after a wet wet spring. She has a bedded stall but I cannot lock her in as she becomes super agitated when locked in. She will willingly spend most of her time in her stall at night- she is only stalled about 10 hours per day (and when I say stalled she has a stall with a run that is super muddy) And gets 2-3 hours of pasture per day and the rest of the time in a sacrifice lot with hay.
 

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I can sympathize because I'm also dealing with WLD for the first time. My mare is developing it in two hooves and I am positive it is because she is 29 with Cushing's so not a great immune system.

On the forum the other day I read someone recommended B Gone white line treatment and I have ordered some from Riding Warehouse. It sounds helpful because it can be squirted into the holes where it hardens and lasts for a while. My issue has been that even though I clean and apply No Thrush, Thrushbuster or Vetericyn, my horse is on sand so the organisms immediately go back up inside the cracks. I think keeping the holes filled will be key.

For scratches I have had the best success in the past with either applying a thick barrier of Zinc Oxide cream after cleaning, or else scrubbing with Eqyss Microtek gel (not spray) because it also dries into a film that seems to make a barrier.
 

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White Lightning Hoof Soak made by Grand Champion and 2 soaking boots are needed to purchase.
Comes in 2 sizes..also a gel product.
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/white-lightning-liquid
https://www.amazon.com/JC-Saddlery-Circuit-Lightning-Liquid/dp/B001II3YDS
https://www.grandcircuitinc.com/catalog/white-lightning®



Follow directions exactly, read all the material that comes with it before you start so you know what you need, how to mix it so enough for a soak and how long the product is activated for.
I gave you a link to the Grand Circuit website cause they had information that no one else had that helped utilize the product best.
So...

Have the farrier in to do a fresh cut/rasp to the hoof. Best if shoes are removed for treatment.
Now clean the hoof well...
Get the horse on a dry surface.
Now mix the product...
Boot the horse in that soaking boot.
Carefully pour in the mixture and let it start to do its magic..
Remove the hoof carefully so you not spill the solution...
Hold the hoof, support and don't allow it to touch ground. Now slide the extra boot on and use the given straps to seal and fumigate as the directions stated.
Do each foot on the horse, treating known problem hoof. I did all 4 hooves as treatment and a preventative since I had the solution...
It takes a couple of hours to do all 4 but...to me was worth my time and effort.

One treatment done following directions, my farrier saw a huge improvement in hoof health the next time he came to trim my horse.
He swore by the product and now I do too.
My gf still is puttering around 9 months later and not making progress, actually her horses hoof is in terrible condition and the animal pays the price. :frown_color:

Somehow getting the horse out of the wet conditions has to be done since the offending bacteria lives in the sloppy mess and is not helping matters.
The secret of this product working so well is the boot fumigating as it allows the gases to permeate the tissues deep into the tissue hidden...
All I can say is, it works.
It is not cheap, nor expensive when no hoof no horse is followed and believed to exist.
Good luck but for me...this product far exceeded my expectations and results achieved.
Hopefully, never to reappear but I already have on hand the product to destroy the bacteria if it shows again.
Money well spent to have this on hand for immediate response imo. :smile:
:runninghorse2:...
 

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Ok:). Since it’s you, I don’t have to be flowery and I don’t have to explain much of anything:):)

1. There was a point in time when Joker’s founder ruined his hooves to where one vet (not the lameness vet) and a handful of farrier’s thought the only recourse was “resection which is worse than debride.

I would not allow it. I did clean and apply meds every day. Joker, comes in every night and that does make a huge difference in the rate of progress. I got his hooves thru the trauma but it took months of standing on my head every day:)

1.1. You are already standing on your head for an above average amount of time, so there are a few things you can consider.

2. First and foremost do a soak of all affected hooves in White Lightening.. As HLG said, this stuff honestly does work:cool:

2.1. Also buy the White Lightening gel. It’s $20/2oz bottle but that stuff is amazing and a little goes a long way. Until your mud goes away, apply it every other day.

I save the 1/2” Keretex brushes and use them to get the gel deep in the hoof cracks.

3. There are different types of pliable hoof packs that can be used on barefoot horses, although I’m pretty sure VetTech’s “lasts up to two weeks” comment may go out the window if the horse is in constant mud.

3.1. VetTech’s pink tube for barefoot horses. All their products require a caulking gun to apply them.

3.2. ShuFill reminds me of silly putty. The kind my farrier uses comes in two tubs. Equal parts of each tub get mixed together to about the size of a chicken egg. That does one hoof.

3.2.1. She also mixes copper sulfate crystals into the Shufill. “Allen’s Blue Powder” is what she uses.

She uses it over the frog and in the collateral grooves but it could easily be shoved down in the whiteline - which, it will come out eventually and have to be re-packed.

3.3. The ShuFill is expensive but, if you just use it (and mix in the copper sulfate crystals) packed into the whiteline, it should stop the whiteline from spreading as long as you can keep up with the trimming.

4. If you would feel better with professional help, Google “therapeutic farrier’s” in your region. They often travel. You can also go to Newhouse.com, click on the farrier button, then click on your state and see if there is anyone qualified within 50-100 miles that would come to your farm.

5. Joker has to be in Orthotic shoes. Probably the rest of his life on the front. He wears them on the back several months out of the year due to his fractured sacrum & his being sickle-hocked exacerbates that.

He wears Natural Balance PLR shoes on the front with lily pads and the ShuFill underneath.

6. You stand a good chance of keeping the mare barefoot as long as you can keep trimming her.

I lost the barefoot battle with Joker when my back got so bad, I had to stop trimming him. I had him in boots during the dry months and he was doing great but I had to stop trimming in a serious way and that’s when the trouble started:frown_color:

7. The mare could greatly benefit from some supplements- and nothing that works is going to be cheap.

I am a HorseTech fan.

7.1 I feed their HighPoint for Grass Fed horses vit/min supplement. It only takes 3oz daily per horse. It is geared toward easy keeping & metabolic horses. It is soy-free with no added iron and DOES
have the three key amino acids in it.

Cost is ~86 cents/day.

7.2. I also feed their Natural vitamin E 5000, at 3000 IU daily. It does not have any selenium in it.

7.3. Their BioFlax has also been a big help.

7.4 Lastly their probiotic “GutWerks”.

I divide the amounts into two feedings and mix it into one measure cup of Timothy pellets twice daily.

8. I would also have her tested for Cushings if you haven’t done so already. Cushings can play Holy Hades with foundered hooves, as I have learned.

My vet facility uses Cornell. I like the way they interpret blood work as they give you the normal range in the left column and the horse’s actual reading in the right column. Makes it easy for the layman:)

It is important your vet clinic gives you copies of the blood work, so you have records for comparison:)
 

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@carshon I SO hear you. We had perpetual mud starting October - and the first real dry ground (for about a week) in March/April.

I think I was lucky enough to catch WLD early (not deep yet) and got a hold of it with Oxine soaks. Oxine is basically the same as white lightning (you also activate it with vinegar or citric acid, whatever you have on hand), but the price is much lower. I got mine here https://www.revivalanimal.com/product/oxine-animal-health-ah?sku=15103-208

And here are some directions how to use: https://www.healthyhoof.com/articles/Thrush/ThrushRevisited.html

When I had deep, relatively wide crevices, I cleaned them out as much as possible, soaked and then after soaking (and fumigating) soaked a piece of cotton round in the clean solution and stuffed it in there with a hoofpick…

Once the diseased area has almost grown down, I used B Gone to keep the sand and mud out...

Another thing: When my mare managed a ligament tear last year, I started her on MSM to help with the swelling... Strangely enough her trush went away, despite me not changing anything in my routine. Fast forward to a month ago, I stopped the MSM and her reaction to ticks was through the roof and thrush is coming back... Coincidence? Maybe. But I started her back on MSM and after 2 weeks I already see an improvement again....
 

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[

Another thing: When my mare managed a ligament tear last year, I started her on MSM to help with the swelling... Strangely enough her trush went away, despite me not changing anything in my routine. Fast forward to a month ago, I stopped the MSM and her reaction to ticks was through the roof and thrush is coming back... Coincidence? Maybe. But I started her back on MSM and after 2 weeks I already see an improvement again....
This is the good kind of anecdotal stuff the scientific community never wants to hear:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
OK I had already ordered White Lightning and am waiting for it to come. I will soak as much as I can and will also try to push cotton balls in the cracks. She has been wearing hoof boots out in the pasture and the sacrifice lot but to be honest her stalls run is just too deep in mud - and she happens to love to sleep in the mud and has a nice dry spot in the mud with her body indent there. I see no end in sight for the rain and all of the ag lime we put down last fall washed away with the torrential rains we had in Oct and Nov and no chance to get any in this spring. The past 3 years have been horrible wet spring and fall. Once again this year looks like our first cutting hay won't get baled until July - it is just too darn wet here.

I appreciate all of the suggestions and I do have MSM on hand that I feed to my Navicular mare.
 

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chronic founder at her previous owners place and chronic scratches as well. .... but the shoes would never really stay on due to shelly hoof wall and chronic spreading of the weak hoof wall.
So, some hoof pics would be helpful. Aside from perhaps simply too much food, too much sugar, nutrition plays a big part in hoof health and chronic scratches & 'shelly' walls(while the latter & the 'spreading' exacerbated by shoes) tell me it's likely there are probs there. And that she is on only grass/hay & remission(that's good stuff) means she's almost definitely lacking/imbalanced in a variety of nutrients. So, I'd start with a diet analysis & go from there.

What looked like to me over the winter as seedy toe has moved onto full blown white line disease.
As I've always understood 'WLD' to be the American term for what us Aussies call seedy toe, what is your definition? What differences are you seeing?

Yeah, 'seedy' is insidious & can get really severe if left, can eat away into healthy tissue faster than it can grow - even in the extreme, eating into P3!! And being inside wall material, you often can't tell how bad it may be getting.. or treat it effeçtively just topically. That's why I think it's vital to be 'assertive' in treatment & esp if it's not just superficial, if there's any separation, as from founder & shoes, then I'd be finding a farrier to resect as an urgent priority.

Constant mud, esp if it's warm, is a prob. Appreciate not being able to lock her up but any way you can keep her in a sand yard or some such, to minimise mud till you get this treated?

In the meantime, I second white lightening, from what I've heard(was not avail here & haven't tried).

Before anyone asks about nutrition the mare gets only grass hay and has access almost 24/7, she gets limited pasture time and wears a grazing muzzle when on pasture, gets very little to no grain but does get Timothy and Beet Pulp soaked to carry her Remission supplement.
Grass hay may be no different in sugars than the growing grass it came from. So may be no diff to the pasture she is on. I'd ensure she gets low sugar tested hay, or if you can't get that, soak & drain the hay in clean water before feeding it. Especially (but not only) if she was obese /IR I'd not feed ANY grain or other rich, sugary feed, but stick to something like the beet pulp to mix supps in.
 

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Whiteline disease is so common in Florida, I just assume most horses have it to a degree. My own horses have it. Usually it's mild enough that a trim can remove most of it. It's only a problem if it invades the hoof faster than the hoof can grow out.
 

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I cannot get any of the horse-specific products (non-horsey country, there aren't any tack shops). I tried ordering it but import of "chemicals" is incredibly difficult for a regular person.

People around here have been using "blue stone" (copper sulfate) to treat hoof issues. It's usually used in vineyards as a fungicide. Has anyone heard of it? Any drawbacks to that?

I can also get my hands on ClO2 (Chlorine dioxide), which is the active ingredient in White Lightning. I would be a bit hesitant to use that because I am not sure that the proportion in the solution should be. Any ideas?

My mare has it in one hoof, not extensively. It's not too deep either, less than a centimeter. The farrier isn't overly worried. He said to use a "blue stone" solution but he thinks it is't necessary. Regardless - I want it gone as soon as possible.

I am not too sure how she developed it. She never stands in anything wet. The stalls are cleaned three times a day and turnout is limited to dry weather.
 

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1. I forgot what country you live in:(. Are you in Canada?

If so - https://canadianforge.com/products/gc-white-lightening

2. Copper crystals (blue powder) can also be used.

3. Another thought, even if your horse is barefoot, would be if your farrier hot shoes. If so, and IF your horse will tolerate the searing smoke (not all horses will), ask you farrier if he will heat up a shoe and use it to cauterize the whiteline. The put a topical treatment on it - whatever you can buy locally may work:)
 
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Bluestone(copper sulfate) is good. Doesn't work for every infection but helps most IME. It's strong & toxic & best not get it on your hands, or any skin of the horse. Straight salt is pretty good too. Chlorine dioxide is apparently good too, but afraid I haven't used it & can't tell you how to mix. I'm sure if you google... I'd scrape/cut out the infection as much as necessary, then, depending the environment & size of hole(it's generally best left open to air, but...), you could either plug it up - you can use clay(I use Tuff Rock clay poultice) or beeswax & mix it with CS or such, or you could make a paste to put in the hole, or soak the foot in a solution, then leave it open.

Infections like this(& thrush - same beasts) are from soil born organisms. They are classed as 'opportunistic', meaning they tend to invade compromised tissue. Once in though, they can eat further into healthy wall material. It can be insidious & unseen, inside the hoof capsule, so I believe any infection is best scraped/cut out as necessary, as well as treated topically. They're anaerobic - reason to have it open to air if poss - and like warmth & damp. Inside the wall material can be damp enough even if the environment's dry, so mud & crud is not strictly necessary - just that that compromises the hoof more & so gives the 'opportunistic' infection more chances to thrive.
 

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1. I forgot what country you live in:(. Are you in Canada?

If so - https://canadianforge.com/products/gc-white-lightening

2. Copper crystals (blue powder) can also be used.

3. Another thought, even if your horse is barefoot, would be if your farrier hot shoes. If so, and IF your horse will tolerate the searing smoke (not all horses will), ask you farrier if he will heat up a shoe and use it to cauterize the whiteline. The put a topical treatment on it - whatever you can buy locally may work:)
Sorry, I am not the OP. I was being rude and piggybacked on someone else’s thread - I felt it would fit in here. Apologies if it was against the rules.

I am from Serbia.

Thank you for your advice.
 

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Bluestone(copper sulfate) is good. Doesn't work for every infection but helps most IME. It's strong & toxic & best not get it on your hands, or any skin of the horse. Straight salt is pretty good too. Chlorine dioxide is apparently good too, but afraid I haven't used it & can't tell you how to mix. I'm sure if you google... I'd scrape/cut out the infection as much as necessary, then, depending the environment & size of hole(it's generally best left open to air, but...), you could either plug it up - you can use clay(I use Tuff Rock clay poultice) or beeswax & mix it with CS or such, or you could make a paste to put in the hole, or soak the foot in a solution, then leave it open.

Infections like this(& thrush - same beasts) are from soil born organisms. They are classed as 'opportunistic', meaning they tend to invade compromised tissue. Once in though, they can eat further into healthy wall material. It can be insidious & unseen, inside the hoof capsule, so I believe any infection is best scraped/cut out as necessary, as well as treated topically. They're anaerobic - reason to have it open to air if poss - and like warmth & damp. Inside the wall material can be damp enough even if the environment's dry, so mud & crud is not strictly necessary - just that that compromises the hoof more & so gives the 'opportunistic' infection more chances to thrive.

Thank you.

It’s the weirdest thing. I’ve had my mare at this yard for four years and none of the horses ever had any issues with it. All of a sudden most of them are getting it. None of the day to day routines were changed. Same farrier for a very long time...really strange. I guess the organism could have invaded the area without us doing anything. Maybe it got here with their bedding or hay. I suppose we’ll never know and it doesn’t matter in any case.
 
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