I think my best weapon in a dangerous situation is my horse. No, I don't carry. I don't feel the need to carry. I don't have valuables on me when I ride my horse. If someone wants to rob me, what are they going to steal? That just leaves the random crazy person and that person would have to get close enough to my horse before attacking. I don't typically ride in new places alone- and always keep a phone on me. Biggest risk in this area would be dogs going after your horse.
Who carries?
Im curious as to whether or not you (the collective) carry a firearm while trail riding? My wife and I both do, as we ride in some pretty wild areas. We have both had to dispatch wild dogs or coyotes. Our bear population are pretty skittish and want no part of horses so thats never been an issue. However, when we road in Montana we had an up close visit from a big grizzly sow. Fortunately she chose discretion and beat feet away from us.
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
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Yes, but this is an example that either side can use to their advantage.It could be pointed out also, @ACinATX that in Dreamcatcher's real life scenario, the people who were more likely to get shot (and did) were the ones who did not have guns.
- Pro gun side: the people who shot this guy couldn't have done it if they hadn't had guns; they saved innocent lives.
- Anti gun side: this whole thing wouldn't have happened in the first place if the first guy hadn't had a gun.
That's very incorrect. With wild animals, mostly just the noise of a gun firing will send them running. With a human, you never pull your gun, point your gun or put your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to kill. It's not, "I've got a gun, stop or I'll warn you again.", by that point you're either in a kill or be killed situation. Lord willing, you will never be in such a position. Carrying a gun means you hope you'll never need it. You don't go around threatening people or brandishing your weapon just because. It's more a case of, if I'm in the position to NEED my gun, things have already gone much farther than I'd like them to have gotten. I've been carrying a gun since I was in my 20's and I'm in my 60's now. I hope I never need to show anyone that I've got it. I know and that's all that's necessary.I feel like a lot of the assumptions about how you will be safer with a gun are operating on the premise that "the other guy" does not have a gun. If I had a gun and someone without a gun is threatening me, and I pull the gun on them, they will most likely back off; thus the gun potentially increases my safety.
But if they have a gun, they will just as likely pull at THEIR gun and then we'll be in a standoff with serious injury or death as the likely outcome; thus the gun potentially decreases my safety. Whereas if neither of us had a gun, serious injury or death would be less likely to occur.
Is this incorrect?
The fallacy in that way of thinking is expecting the bad guys to obey the law of the land. I passed a background check, several in fact, registered my weapons and keep them secured from other hands. That night I was carrying a holster purse, so my weapon was put away but in an easily accessible pouch in my purse, should I need it. Thankfully, I did not.
- Anti gun side: this whole thing wouldn't have happened in the first place if the first guy hadn't had a gun.
You can take guns away from law abiding people, but the crooks will always have a way to get guns. One of my guns costs around $500 and up, depending on if I put sights on them, have a custom grip, have some smithing done to make them more comfortable and so on. By the time I'm done, especially by the time I buy magazines, holsters, ammo, I'm out over $1000. Add in my membership at a range, costs of continuing education at roughly $500 per course and ammo, (1000 rounds of 9mm ammunition is about $290 plus tax and I'll use at least 500 rounds per course) and you can see the dedication to being the best and most responsible I can be. Crooks don't spend that much or work that hard.
Boy Howdy, my thoughts are all over the map on this one.
Our township doesn’t have a police department, and the state police are pretty much useless. So it only makes sense that we have a couple of firearms in our home, I guess, although the township has little crime.
My brother, a gun enthusiast, always told me to use the shotgun if need be, because you just have to fire in their general direction, heh.
I’ve never shot a handgun and I suspect my aim would be waaay off the mark 😉
That being said, I believe that military-style firearms should not be available to the average individual. Those are the weapons that decimate schools and businesses.
Funny story: I was driving into town a few weeks ago and being seriously tailgated by the vehicle behind me. Nothing I hate worse, since I suffered several injuries by being rear-ended 20 years ago. At the stop sign, I put the Jeep in park, got out, and walked back to the offending vehicle, yelling at them to LEARN HOW TO DRIVE. There were two young guys in the vehicle; their jaws dropped to the floor and they immediately put it in reverse. Heh…I’m sure they thought I was carrying, otherwise why would a 67 year old woman get out of her car to confront them!
Hopefully they remember the incident and stay off other peoples’ bumpers.
Beth, you sound too much like me to be healthy. I would not have pulled my gun on you, had you come stomping back to my car, but I'd have had it ready in my hand just in case you turned out to be nuttier than me. Reverse that situation and have one or 2 of those fine young tailgating gents come stomping back to me, I'd have put it in reverse and gotten out of Dodge and I'd have had my gun ready to roll, again just in case. In neither case would it have been visible. Road rage is a very dangerous thing and gets lots of people killed every year. Be careful and keep that temper on a short rein.Here that action Beth is called road rage...
Here you approach a vehicle with aggression you will be looking down the barrel of a gun...
Be very careful if you ever do that again for your safety.
People, regardless of age, many are armed and you initiated contact by existing your vehicle approaching theirs aggressively...
Road rages kill many people today across our nation...whether earned or implied violence felt or just being a innocent...dead is dead.
Please be careful.
It would of been far safer for you to just pull over and let the tail-gaiters pass-on by...
Less for your blood pressure to go sky-high too..
🐴...
@ACinTX, here's where I go at least 2X/year to train. Gunsite Academy It's not cheap and they are the best in the business. Love my little mini-vacations. My armory sergeant at the Sheriff's Department was an instructor there and got me introduced to them. I should hate him for it (I go there rather than on cruises).
You can find local courses if you want to, and they don't cost nearly as much, no require you to have as much ammo for a week or weekend.
You can find local courses if you want to, and they don't cost nearly as much, no require you to have as much ammo for a week or weekend.
Yeah my daughter and I wanted to learn to shoot, and we were actually actively making plans to go somewhere with some people we know in March 2020. Then Covid happened and we haven't really started planning again.
Most folks I know that take firearm instruction really love it. A good course will teach a lot about safety and problem solving, in addition to how to fire certain weapons.Yeah my daughter and I wanted to learn to shoot, and we were actually actively making plans to go somewhere with some people we know in March 2020. Then Covid happened and we haven't really started planning again.
I have two followup questions:
- How long does it take to be at least basically proficient at shooting?
- If I were on horseback, I'd be shooting with one hand, right? Because the other hand would be holding the reins? Would I expect my accuracy to be pretty low because of that? But maybe, in the situation envisioned, it isn't really accuracy that's important, but that the object of my concern realize that I have a deadly weapon?
#1 I can only say, it depends. You can take a 4 hr basic hand gun safety course and at least find your way around your pistol. You'll do a little shooting after the lecture portion of the class. (Your class may be longer, in CA it's an 8 hr class and required.) A lot of ranges offer women's only classes, I really recommend that for you and your daughter. Depending on her age, she may need a youth class rather than to go in with adults.I have two followup questions:
Sorry that second one is really more than one question LOL.
- How long does it take to be at least basically proficient at shooting?
- If I were on horseback, I'd be shooting with one hand, right? Because the other hand would be holding the reins? Would I expect my accuracy to be pretty low because of that? But maybe, in the situation envisioned, it isn't really accuracy that's important, but that the object of my concern realize that I have a deadly weapon?
Once you've done that, then there's Hand Gun Safety 2, some places may just do it as part of the basic safety course. You do more shooting and learn more about where to shoot, how to group your shots and do quite a bit more target practice.
Once you've taken the basic class, the sky is the limit. You can take the Concealed Carry Class (not sure what it's called or if required in TX), you can take advanced training with hand guns, guns with sights, guns with laser sights, night shooting, simulator classes that put you in 'shoot don't shoot' scenarios, rifle classes, shotgun classes, Holster classes, just about anything you can dream up, they'll teach you.
You can get involved in competition shooting, that's fun too.
So, it depends on how involved you want to be, how much time you want to devote, how often you take time to practice at a range on your own.
#2 Yes and no. Yes, probably one handed if it's an animal and you want to scare it off. No, if it's a human or an animal and you want to be somewhat accurate, especially in the beginning you need both hands. In all the training I mentioned above, you should have practiced with 2 hands, 1 hand, shooting with your off hand, and how much recoil your gun has. That one is HUGE. I love my Ruger .357 with 6 inch barrel. I mostly shoot smaller ammo in it though because it kicks like a mule. One handed, if I don't practice A LOT, I might end up shooting the end of my nose off. Both of my Glocks, the 17 & Baby Glock 26 are much smoother, but still, you need to practice one handed shooting.
If you want to live through the experience, you should practice desensitizing your horse to gun fire. The saying, "You can shoot off of any horse. ONCE." is because if you don't, you're probably going to go for the ride of your life when that gun goes off and you won't want to shoot off of him again. Most horses can be desensitized enough to be safe, if not world class mounted shooting horses.
Your last question, assumes that your target is a human and can recognize a gun. A hog, a dog, and bear or mountain lion, don't recognize such things and furthermore aren't impressed, until all the noise and stink of gun smoke starts. So, for the situations you're mostly talking about, trail riding, I'd say no.
HLG, I know, I know…my temper definitely got the better of me. My problem is that I’m not afraid of anything…except getting rear-ended again!Here that action Beth is called road rage...
Here you approach a vehicle with aggression you will be looking down the barrel of a gun...
Be very careful if you ever do that again for your safety.
People, regardless of age, many are armed and you initiated contact by existing your vehicle approaching theirs aggressively...
Road rages kill many people today across our nation...whether earned or implied violence felt or just being a innocent...dead is dead.
Please be careful.
It would of been far safer for you to just pull over and let the tail-gaiters pass-on by...
Less for your blood pressure to go sky-high too..
🐴...
Interrupting the barrage to say yes I plan to. Would love to carry on wide ranchland with a good little lever action carbine but alas, not quite there yet. I'm not great with a handgun but not bad with a long gun! Good thing to do with the risk of hogs and snakes here, especially the hogs.
Pulling a gun on anybody would be a sticky situation but again, better to have it and not need it then needed to not have it. There's nothing dangerous about me with a firearm since I know exactly what I'm doing and am in no hurry to touch it unless I need it. Especially as a female who isn't exactly capable of fighting off a 200 lb 6 ft dude, I value these tools as safe and effective protective equipment providing you know how to handle the weapon.
Pulling a gun on anybody would be a sticky situation but again, better to have it and not need it then needed to not have it. There's nothing dangerous about me with a firearm since I know exactly what I'm doing and am in no hurry to touch it unless I need it. Especially as a female who isn't exactly capable of fighting off a 200 lb 6 ft dude, I value these tools as safe and effective protective equipment providing you know how to handle the weapon.
I guess I have to assume if the guy wanted to be violent that badly, he would have used another weapon, whatever was at hand.Yes, but this is an example that either side can use to their advantage.
- Pro gun side: the people who shot this guy couldn't have done it if they hadn't had guns; they saved innocent lives.
- Anti gun side: this whole thing wouldn't have happened in the first place if the first guy hadn't had a gun.
I haven't desensitized my horses to guns and if I had to use one around my horse because of a wild animal or etc, I'd attempt to dismount while I shot. My horse might bolt off, but I suspect if it were a wild animal attack the horse might take off anyway. If it was a person threatening us, I'd most likely try to gallop away as a first tactic. I read in a horse magazine where a person was riding near the Manson family hideout prior to their notoriety, and a couple of the members came up and tried to grab the horse's reins. But the person was able to get free and ride the horse away.
Gottatrot:I guess I have to assume if the guy wanted to be violent that badly, he would have used another weapon, whatever was at hand.
I haven't desensitized my horses to guns and if I had to use one around my horse because of a wild animal or etc, I'd attempt to dismount while I shot. My horse might bolt off, but I suspect if it were a wild animal attack the horse might take off anyway. If it was a person threatening us, I'd most likely try to gallop away as a first tactic. I read in a horse magazine where a person was riding near the Manson family hideout prior to their notoriety, and a couple of the members came up and tried to grab the horse's reins. But the person was able to get free and ride the horse away.
I once read about a female park ranger in one of the larger national parks; she carried a gun but was still ignored by people when she made certain requests of them.
So she asked her supervisor to provide her with a horse. People listened up REAL quick after that. The fact is that many people who don’t know horses are terrified of them, and this worked in her favor.
Oklahoma sure sounds like a nice place to live.I would tell you that it's both. I've lived in cities and lived out in the desert and out in the country for the last 25 years. The high desert of So. Cal., where I worked, was known as the "Body Dump Capital" of So. Cal. We also had a lot of meth labs. You almost couldn't ride out in the desert without tripping over lab disposal, a working lab or a dead body. It also wasn't unusual to find someone who hadn't been killed but dumped in the middle of summer, so the desert could do the dirty work.
When I lived in Tucson there was a lot of illegal migration going on in the desert there. I wouldn't have even thought about going out unarmed. A lone woman on a horse? Easy pickin's.
Here in OK, I have never felt threatened in town, in OKC or Tulsa or out on trail in the country. At home I'm more likely to have a shotgun at hand, rather than a pistol, for coyotes. We have quite a few and they can be a problem for livestock.
One night we were in OKC at supper time and thinking about where we wanted to eat. Hubby suggested Louie's, but I requested somewhere else. Their food is mediocre but consistent, but the place is built with all hard edges and high ceilings, and it's super noisy. Really makes it impossible to get comfortable, for me. So we went somewhere else. While we were eating I got a news alert of a shooting at Louie's. Someone had gone in and just opened fire at the restaurant, no apparent reason. Three people were shot, none died, and one fell and broke an arm trying to get away. Two armed citizens, carrying concealed, stopped the gunman in Louie's parking lot. I was very glad not to be there that night. If those two armed citizens had not been at Louie's that night, it would have been much worse. The shooter came prepared, he was wearing shooting glasses, hearing protection and had had several magazines.
My biological uncle who I never met lived in OKC, but that’s a story for another day..
When I rode Mounted Patrol, we went through a training academy where we learned to use the horse as a “weapon” (for lack of a better term) to deter someone trying to grab the reins or grab onto the rider. We rode security at a lot of local concerts so it was mostly to avoid drunks trying to grab onto the horses, but it was good training for all kinds of situations.
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When I did training for my gun I was thought that if you ever pull a gun you shoot straight away and you shoot to kill. But I lived in Africa at the time so I’m not sure if the same principle applies elsewhere.I feel like a lot of the assumptions about how you will be safer with a gun are operating on the premise that "the other guy" does not have a gun. If I had a gun and someone without a gun is threatening me, and I pull the gun on them, they will most likely back off; thus the gun potentially increases my safety.
But if they have a gun, they will just as likely pull at THEIR gun and then we'll be in a standoff with serious injury or death as the likely outcome; thus the gun potentially decreases my safety. Whereas if neither of us had a gun, serious injury or death would be less likely to occur.
Is this incorrect?
I have to say I MUCH prefer living in a place with very low crime rates. Where I am currently it is close to impossible to get a license for a gun unless it’s for very specific jobs (police, a handful of security guards, military - that’s it). And even if you manage to get a license, which you won’t - it’s just to keep a gun at home and to transport it in a safe to a shooting range. A carry license is impossible for a civilian. Love it here.
It is interesting to read what and where other people were taught.When I did training for my gun I was thought that if you ever pull a gun... you shoot to kill. But I lived in Africa at the time so I’m not sure if the same principle applies elsewhere.
I was taught by my father, who is retired from the military, in the United States. I was taught that if you shoot, you shoot to stop the threat; killing is a highly probable risk but not the ultimate goal. If the threat is neutralized after a bullet or two, it is unnecessary to kill it with the rest of the magazine.
The way the instructors explained it is that it is highly unlikely that general public would be able to aim with such accuracy to hit an arm or a leg so we would just be wasting time and putting ourselves in more danger. Aim for the largest part of the target and shoot until they are down. From what I’ve seen professionals also aim for the torso.It is interesting to read what and where other people were taught.
I was taught by my father, who is retired from the military, in the United States. I was taught that if you shoot, you shoot to stop the threat; killing is a highly probable risk but not the ultimate goal. If the threat is neutralized after a bullet or two, it is unnecessary to kill it with the rest of the magazine.
I think it also has to do with readiness to kill a human. A person who has doubts and faffs around trying to spare an attacker’s life is in more danger carrying a gun than not not carrying - a gun can be taken and used against you and if you faff around you are much more likely to get yourself shot. None of this is to say that a person who thinks they are capable of killing a human will not freeze in the moment but at least it makes people think a bit about it and maybe not carry a gun if they realize they cannot do it.
When I did training for my gun I was thought that if you ever pull a gun you shoot straight away and you shoot to kill. But I lived in Africa at the time so I’m not sure if the same principle applies elsewhere.
I have to say I MUCH prefer living in a place with very low crime rates. Where I am currently it is close to impossible to get a license for a gun unless it’s for very specific jobs (police, a handful of security guards, military - that’s it). And even if you manage to get a license, which you won’t - it’s just to keep a gun at home and to transport it in a safe to a shooting range. A carry license is impossible for a civilian. Love it here.
It is interesting to read what and where other people were taught.
I was taught by my father, who is retired from the military, in the United States. I was taught that if you shoot, you shoot to stop the threat; killing is a highly probable risk but not the ultimate goal. If the threat is neutralized after a bullet or two, it is unnecessary to kill it with the rest of the magazine.
I was always instructed that if you pull your weapon, you are going to kill something. It's not a threat, it's not for show, it's to stop a threat to YOUR own life. I have also always been instructed, and practiced, that if you 'cover' something with the muzzle of the gun, put your finger on the trigger, you have passed the point of no return. You shoot and you shoot to kill, not maim. There's a lot of responsibility to carrying a weapon and it's not something to be done lightly. As you put it Horsef, you don't faff around. It will get you killed. I've always done the 'triple tap', 2 to the torso and 1 to the head. Not something you want to do just 'cuz'.The way the instructors explained it is that it is highly unlikely that general public would be able to aim with such accuracy to hit an arm or a leg so we would just be wasting time and putting ourselves in more danger. Aim for the largest part of the target and shoot until they are down. From what I’ve seen professionals also aim for the torso.
I think it also has to do with readiness to kill a human. A person who has doubts and faffs around trying to spare an attacker’s life is in more danger carrying a gun than not not carrying - a gun can be taken and used against you and if you faff around you are much more likely to get yourself shot. None of this is to say that a person who thinks they are capable of killing a human will not freeze in the moment but at least it makes people think a bit about it and maybe not carry a gun if they realize they cannot do it.
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