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I too agree with Elana.
The mare is nice enough but not enough front on her for me.

The chrome gelding seems a very good temperament, and as Elana says, shows a very good bascule over the fence.

He would be the one for me by a long way.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
You don't like anything anymore! :lol: I'm kidding - I'm glad of everyones' advice, as I personally didn't see anything wrong with the black mare except for her being back at the knee.

I will give you guys two more horses. I think these are the last ones. But I can't post the other right now, the owner will send me pictures later. So without further ado..

Introducing, Oggy (I would have to change his name for sure!) palomino gelding, 3.y.o, rather calm temperament, Tori horse yet again. I think his shoulder is, again, his weak point and his neck is rather short and..almost a swan-neck? His legs seem good to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Can you explain him being hollow? You lost me there.. as of course, I like his color and he actually managed to get rather good points in his examination (almost like a halter class: judges score your horses overall looks, moving ability, temperament and conformation).

Can you say how the liver chestnut mare is better than the black mare I posted on the last page? I actually like her quite a bit.
 

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I like the first mare you posted the best. She is very cute, and seems forward, yet sane. Maybe she won't be the best jumper, but she could certainly surprise you.
 

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the palomino is also a weak horse. He has an extremely straight hind leg and is weak through the stifle. He also has a very large difference between the height of his nicely placed knees and his way too high hocks. He will travel through life down hill and disjointed for that reason...

again.. go back to the beginning.. Chrome Gelding #1 and Chestnut mare #2............

BTW Back at the knee is a serious future soundness fault (especially coupled with tied at the knee) and I avoid that flaw like the plague.
 
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Can you explain him being hollow? You lost me there.. as of course, I like his color and he actually managed to get rather good points in his examination (almost like a halter class: judges score your horses overall looks, moving ability, temperament and conformation).

Can you say how the liver chestnut mare is better than the black mare I posted on the last page? I actually like her quite a bit.
Colour, for me, is the last factor I take into consideration except with cremellos or any other pink skinned horses and I wouldnt touch them with a barge pole!

I was in a rush when I first posted and again agree with Elana. What I meant by hollow is if you look the under muscle of his neck is more built up than the crest, he holds his head high and in the top picture his back is hollowing.
I don't like the thickness of his jowl nor the shape of his head, sideways on. My instinct tells me he could be a bit wooden headed.

I am one of those people who goes by instinct. If I went to see him and he gave me that impression I would be polite and walk away without seeing him do anything!
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Foxhunter, thank you for clarifying that. Now I see why you said that and agree. He is indeed hollow and if I'm honest with myself, if he were a different color I wouldn't even look at him much. I'm just a color genetics lover and I guess that's why I was eyeing him - you see bays and chestnuts everywhere, but not as many others.

Could you/Elana/someone else also tell me a bit more about that black mare I posted earlier? I somehow have a good feeling about her, even though she does seem to be a bit sickle hocked..how would this affect her?

And don't worry, so far I am definitely going to see the first two horses :) I like the liver chestnut mare the best so far (also the black mare). The gelding I'm having my doubts about, but I will still go get to know him.
 

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She has a hind leg.. like a dog but with a high placed hock. It is great on a dog and weak on a horse!

This horse is first and foremost down hill. She will travel on her forehand and be difficult to collect and is a poor choice for dressage. If she is forced to collect (and that will be about how it goes because of her build) she will be prone to developing curbs and spavins.. bog spavin at first and eventually bone spavin.

Her shoulder is a bit steep and the point of shoulder lays low with the humerus from point of shoulder to elbow laying nearly flat. This will limit her front end reach and will limit how far she brings her knees up over fences. In addition to this her neck ties in low to her chest which is a bit pigeon breasted. She is very back at the knee and is a poor prospect for jumping.

Her coupling (loin behind the saddle to the peak of croup) is long and weak. She is wasp waisted. Her stifle is placed low, but too far back. her buttock is naturally weak and her gaskin is light. Her entire rear end lacks angulation making it a weak structure and lacking in power. She is weedy. the entire rear end needs to be moved forward and her peak of croup is way to far back which is where her weak rear end structure begins.

Drawing attached.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Thank you Elana for showing that! It was very nice that you drew and pointed her faults out throughoutly. I see why she'd be a bad pick.. I'll try to remember everything and notice these problems myself in the future. Hope I didn't annoy you, I really didn't see much faults with her at first. I stand corrected though.

For now I can't say anything else, I'll just be waiting for Sunday. Hoping everything goes well :)
 

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If I was looking for a horse in Elana's area I would send her out in front of me! I have the good feeling if she called and said it was worth looking at it would be!

I said about colour before - colour of the horse does not win you dressage points nor make froma clear round in jumping!
 

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As said, go and ride that chrome gelding. He has scope if you want to jump and balance if you want to do Dressage. I look at him and think he is very solid and versatile. He could go three day if he has the speed.. he certainly has the substance. He could go as far as you can take him. He might not be International material.. but that depends a lot on training and money as much as the horse. He is really that good IMO.

The first mare is good.. but does not have the front end to go as far as the gelding.

If that chrome gelding had a lot of color.. was a black or a paint.. you could not afford him. Color AND conformation come together rarely and when they do most of us would need to rob a bank to buy the horse. They are that rare.

And he has some flash with those white legs.. so unless he would not pass the vet or looks bad in person (and some do).. there is where I would start.

Just my opinion. It's your wallet.
 

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Discussion Starter #55 (Edited)
The chrome chestnut gelding in the first page, his name is Aslan and yes, he is in the jumping picture as well. I attached a couple pictures of his real sire, Arrivederci (who is a Trakehner) just because he is a real nice horse IMO :) Aslans' dam is a Tori horse who is slightly thicker/heavier than the sire, but color-wise is exactly the same only a bit lighter. I have to admit, I do like the sire a lot! Maybe the chestnut boy will grow on me. Though, if I am honest..my heart is telling me 'no' about him. I just don't..feel anything about buying him. I know the gelding is good but.. I don't know. I will see him Sunday so I can see if that feeling changes.






Foxhunter, I too value Elanas advice highly. That's why I'm at odds with myself about the two horses. But when I see the gelding and feel like he's the one for me, I will snatch him up. No doubt about it. But if I feel that he's not the horse I'd want to spend my days with, I have to pass, even though he is an amazing boy. I can't buy a horse just because he's good if I don't really love him myself. If I love the mare, that's the way I'll go.
 

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You do have to have a feel for a horse, I do agree with that! However always go look with an open mind.

I found a horse for a friend. I knew he would suit her 100% but she wanted a 15.2 dark bay/ brown mare. This was a 16.1 liver chestnut gelding.

When I first saw him he looked like a quality plodder but under saddle he was a different horse. I popped him around a 4' course. Took him out for a rode jumped rails. Hedges, ditches and gates. He was a joy to ride.
I persuaded friend to go see amd ride him. She almost walked away when she first saw him but, knowing me and having travelled so far she decided to have a ride.
She bought him subject to vet, got him home a week later and kept him until he was 36.

So be open!
 

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Well, since I never bought a horse based on emotion (including rescues) I guess I will let this thread go.

Certainly no one wants to be "over horsed" and that is always a mistake. That said, I spent years and years of my own horses being the result of me scratching around and trying to get something really good out of what I could afford. Other people's horses were always much better because clients had money.. I did not.

I guess if I had the chance to get a well conformed horse with a good mind I would do it an work it all out later. If it did not work then I would sell the horse after training him to a level where I could make a few dollars.

Good luck with your search. I hope you find what you want!
 

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Elana - I too have had many horses through my hands, some mine and even more of other people's.

I am sure that you have had some that you have a ral 'feel' for. Might not be the most talented, the best looking, the kindest but there is a connection which you sense right away?

I well remember being out Fox Hunting when one of the hunt members arrived riding a new horse. A big bay, well up to weight and not at all the sort of horse I would have looked at for me. However, the moment I set eyes on this horse I really, really liked him.
Three or four years passed before he came to me as a livery. Every time I had seen him I felt something. When he came to me there were many problems, he was one of the nappiest horses I had ever had through my hands. He was impossible to clip, was very prone to colic and had a 'leg'
The moment I rode him I knew he was special to me.
Of all the horses I have had and ridden, if I could have anyone of them back, it would be him.

Emotions should not come into it, instinct should.
 

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All of the pictures you have posted are of beautiful horses and I would have a problem picking if I were you. I spent many years in 4-H and went to nationals for horse judging. What I can tell you about the pictures you have posted is that they are all somewhat long in the back and short in the croup/hip which will cause them trouble in tracking up if you want to ride higher level dressage tests. The bay that was in one of the original photos was a little better in this respect but his shoulder was very upright (didn't even look at his pasterns or hocks, but his shoulder was glaringly vertical) and his neck was rather short. When I look for a horse, first I picture a box and try to fit the horse into it. a box has four equal sides and if the horse fits into this "box" this makes it more balanced and presents less of a chalange for it in higher level dressage movements and also makes the chance of arthritis and spavin related changes less in the years to come. Second, you want to look at the angles on the horse. A draft type horse will have a shorter, more angled croup but on all horses, shoulder and pastern should come as close to a 45% angle as possible. If you're not looking to do anything more than ride the horse for fun and maybe do some lower level stuff, I really like the quiet nature of the first horse and the arab cross (height means nothing to me, I ride a 13.1h pony over 4ft fences, its my last consideration- though, I might add that I am only 5ft3in).
 

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Of all the pictures posted, the trakhener stallion above has the best conformation, though he doesn't fit into a perfect box (and who does) he is still very well balanced.
 
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