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Discussion Starter #1
I was'nt sure where to post this, but since my main concern is the health and welfare of my horse, this is where I decided to start. Why are we still torturing our horses with a strap that goes across their heart girth? Why is the cinch still all bunched up against tight against an area my horse needs freedom of movement? Why is the saddle still allowed to rise up and down and rub against my horse?

I have a patent pending on a completely new design in cinches as well as the rigging. My cinch uses four anchor points and continues under the barrel of my horse in a X shape. In the four years I have had my filly, I have never been able to use the stirrups to mount....unless I torture my baby by making the cinch uncomfortably tight. For the past four trail rides..I am the only one that can get on and off her horse..with NO assistance. My pad never slips, My horse loves my cinch. She has stopped throwing her head. I will never torture on more horse I ride with that barbaric cinching method. The rigging is totally revolutionary...it is clip clip pull, pull and you are done.

I took this video today..just for an example...

This girl has only ridden two times before this, she looks like a natural. The saddle never slips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whjVo4v3AQI
 

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My pad doesn't slip, my horse is comfortable, and I can mount perfectly fine( unlike your 4 friends). Why should I be interested in this product? Can we see it?
 

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I think there is already products out there like what you described. I think they are called crossfire rigging or center fire rigging? They attach to the front and rear of the saddle and the cinch is placed farther back than normal.

I've not had the problems you've described. I do tighten my saddle up pretty snug at first but after riding a short bit, it isn't overly tight on the horse. If I wanted to, I could tighten it more but my saddle doesn't slip, even getting off and on. Usually my cinch isn't right behind the front legs like you say so I don't have a problem with it bothering the horses movement.

I will agree that some people have those problems. However, if they are on the heavy side or don't have a saddle that fits the horse, I don't think a different rigging would fix it.

Good luck anyway with your idea.
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Well, this'll be good market research for you. I see very little demand for an invention like that. I've yet to meet a girth sour horse that did not either have an underlying issue or had been cinched up too harshly in the past. Investigating medical issues and/or care and patience has always greatly improved or resolved the issue for me. If you want to claim that an everyday piece of tack is cruel and barbaric then you'd best back that up with some research - I have never seen any signs of discomfort or restricted breathing/movement under normal conditions with a standard girth/cinch. If the girth is properly done up the saddle does not move around and rub - if that is happening then the saddle does not fit properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My pad doesn't slip, my horse is comfortable, and I can mount perfectly fine( unlike your 4 friends). Why should I be interested in this product? Can we see it?
You shouldn't be, if your horse is happy with your current cinch and rigging. I am not into fixing things that are not broken. If your horse is happy, one less horse I will think about. I was out of horses for the most part for over 20 years. I guess I assumed that while I was gone, the few things that were the cause of stress for me..and more importantly my horse. Number one. The cinching. In 4 h we were taught to kick our horses in the stomach. That was more than i could stomach. I think I did that twice. Then I found out on my own you could walk them and then adjust cinch, as well as learning how to swing up by using the horn ( I am always trying things my own way)

But I digress, so back into horses. And what do i find? The same archaic method I used in 6th grade. I ride with a hackamore..that I added cushion and felt to. I wanted my filly before she was ever born. She is one of my best karma payoffs. I am giving lessons to three young girls ..everytime...they have trouble..I have to check cinch. I don't even like doing one cinch, let alone 3. I ride for the enjoyment. That is not enjoyable for me when animals are stressed. I feel everything. I have been rescuing animals with pet assistance for over 20 years, because I am driven to stop the suffering of as many animals as I can, practically, . Even if it is one at a time. I am so driven , I have continued to answer the call at the risk of my marriage (how that can risk my marriage for 29 years,I do not understand, but whatever) . So one day I had an idea..lol I have those all the time. And I started playing with it in my head. I came up with this system..I made a mock prototype..and I have not used the old cinch since. And I never will. That was before I learned what I have learned in my researching for the past month. I never knew horses were left and right handed. or that we place the cinch on the heart girth, restricting the breathing.or that every step my horse took, with a saddle on. the saddle was shifting, because the back of the saddle was not secured down.

I know that when I trailer my boat..or horse..I want that trailer to feel like it is one with my truck. So that I can almost forget it is there. I know that the cinch the way it is now is designed to slip. the cinch and the slip are in the same direction. So it either had to be soooo tight she can't breath..or so loose I couldn't get on without assistance. I felt trapped up there. I know that teddy the morgan on the ranch starts freaking out as soon as he sees the saddle pad. I can feel his discomfort...and when he is cinched I can see it. I found out why hexy probably swishes her tail and starts to stomp her back foot halfway through the trail ride, or that she isnt bar spoiled..she wants to get home and get that cinch off......

I only just received patent pending, today. So I couldn't even discuss it,to find out if there was any interest in it..but the more I research, the more desperate I become to stop the suffering that is going on. So I had to act as soon as I could. I am starting out by just getting the word out there. I have twelve months now to perfect the product. I will take more videos over the weekend of the rigging and the cinch. I will also take video of my horse..while she checks to make sure it is our cinch..which by the way..we call Simple Cinch, is the one I am putting on her..when she finds that it is..she drops her head and and takes a little cat nap..while I ..click click..pull pull ..done

This is my filly. She is my pride and joy. I rescued ( in my opinion) her from my sister..who has her Dam and two younger sisters.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well, are you planning on showing us this rigging system?
<smile> yes..yes I am. I may not be going about the sales of my product in the most productive manner. because to tell true...the business part of this is not my largest concern. I do have people for that ..but I am passionate about stirring up interest because the sooner I do, the sooner other horses may find relief.
 

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I always ask a different question when I see products like this - "Why do people who have re-invented the wheel feel the need to make the argument that the old wheel was cruel?"

Also, no wonder your saddle slips on mounting if that is how you mount. You should bounce up, not pull yourself up using the saddle. You are doing more damage to your horse using this rigging system - instead of causing the saddle to slip when you clamber up so lazily, you are causing her whole spine to twist as you haul yourself up using her as a ladder.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
On a side note. I can't tell you how much of a difference it is having the saddle locked down..and causing no discomfort for my horse. It does not budge. My horse is so happy with it..and that makes me so happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I always ask a different question when I see products like this - "Why do people who have re-invented the wheel feel the need to make the argument that the old wheel was cruel?"

Also, no wonder your saddle slips on mounting if that is how you mount. You should bounce up, not pull yourself up using the saddle. You are doing more damage to your horse using this rigging system - instead of causing the saddle to slip when you clamber up so lazily, you are causing her whole spine to twist as you haul yourself up using her as a ladder.
Are you saying I am wrong about the slide being the same direction of the cinch? Because I am a certified machinist, and I can tell you if you wanted some slide..that is the direction you would put the cinch.

And what about the fact that the back rises..and shifts..even if you cant feel it, horses are..according to my research. And what about the fact that the back cinch does nothing ..and is way too far back. I am not lazy..I ride motocross, I wakeboard...I am not a lazy or un-athletic. But I am no spring chicken..and I have had knee surgery, I would rather not blow it out again. Or what about the fact that there are cinchy horses being creating daily? I am not doing anything but trying to make what I enjoy, the most enjoyable as possible for my horse first..than myself. And I have worked with a brain damaged patient..guess how that head injury happened? Saddle slipped. So every saddle that slips is because someone is lazy? And how about the fact that the old cinch placement sucks. Would you want a strap over your heart and binding under your arms..if they were the two legs you led with .

<smile> just curious..so you would rather have a not round wheel?
 

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First of all, I am a woman. I wear a strap across my heart and binding under my arms, tight, every day of my life. It doesn't restrict my movement at all, and a girth is just the same if correctly adjusted.

If you can't get on the horse without hauling on her back, use a mounting block. I understand that as people get older they lose "bounce" but that is no excuse to continue to pull yourself up when there are perfectly good alternatives.

I don't even know what you mean about slide going the same way as the cinch, so I am not going to get into that.
 

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In 4 h we were taught to kick our horses in the stomach.
Errrrrrr what? I'm not sure what 4-H club you were with but WOW. That's all I can say. I was in 4-H from the time I was 8 until 18. That was back in 1970 for my first year of 4-H. Never once was I ever told to kick my horse in the gut!

That being said ... I say go for it. If you think you have a product folks would like, you have nothing to loose :) Well except whatever cash you put into your idea if it doesn't pan out.
 

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Show us some pictures of the rigging so we can actually give you our thoughts. I dont think there is anything on the market that couldnt be considered unkind in the wrong hands with inexperienced riders. The fact is when done properly there is nothing cruel about the currently used riggings for saddles.
As said earlier if you cant mount with enough bounce to make it a smooth motion a mounting block should be used. If your girth is pinching your horse you should have someone show you how to do it up properly and keep your horses skin smooth underneath. That being said there is always room for improvement so I look forward to seeing your invention.
 

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There are saddles (english ones i mean) that have girth straps which prevent the back of the saddle rising, but a correctly fitting saddle shouldnt rise at the back anyway...

Anyway, I would be interested to see the product too, and how it riggs up to the saddle. Is it possible to adapt for english use, or is it just western? Does it require alterations to existing saddles to use, or can it be used on any saddle?
Sorry, I always want to know everything about new products haha just me being me :D
 

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Yes a horse's back moves as the horse moves, especially at the canter & walk where alternate sides of the back lift in an up & down, forward & back motion.

If you have a saddle tied down to the back so it doesn't move at all wouldn't the back muscles then be trying to press against a non-moving object?

Think of a back pack for example-we strap them snuggly to our backs but as we move the pack also moves with us. If the pack was made of a solid piece of wood our back would be pushing against the wood with every step. I can't imagine that would be comfortable for very long.

A saddle is also a solid object placed on a moving part (horse) with another moving part (rider) on it. Do we want it so tight to the horse that it doesn't move at all? It seems to me that the only way for the horse to be totally comfortable with a strapped down immobile saddle would be with a saddle that flexed at about 4 points & I don't know how a saddle like that would be safe or secure. It would be more like a treeless saddle or bareback pad, neither of which is very secure, though maybe very confortable for the horse.

Another point to consider with the X cinching rig is that the horse's barrel size changes with different gaits & activities. That would have to be taken into consideration too or it could be more restricting than the sternum cinch now used. Watch a horse breathe, the flanks mainly move. Would the X rig interfere with that?

I too would be interested to see the new design. I'm not saying it would be bad, it could be great.
 

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OK, there are two cinches that criss-cross under the horse's belly. Am I right on this? There is a reason a cinch is in the heart area, that is where the least amount of movement takes place, the least amount of expansion of the rib cage. As the cinch moves farther back, especially on a horse with a tubby belly it will try to crawl forward to the path of least resistance, taking the saddle with it. As the horse moves the X straps will have considerably more movement which could result in chafing. The tree is designed for the heart area. I hope your sytem works well for you but it is not something I would even consider.
 

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I agree with what has already been said....If the saddle fits properly there is no need to hog it to 'em.
I was told as a kid that if you mount properly, you could do it with a loose cinch. Again.. bounce up lightly using the horses neck and forks of the saddle, not hauling yourself by pulling on the horn and cantle.

If your saddle is rolling all over the top of your horse you need to rethink how well it fits and rolling may also be caused by using to thick of pads and blankets.
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...Number one. The cinching. In 4 h we were taught to kick our horses in the stomach. That was more than i could stomach. I think I did that twice. Then I found out on my own you could walk them and then adjust cinch, as well as learning how to swing up by using the horn ( I am always trying things my own way)...

...That was before I learned what I have learned in my researching for the past month. I never knew horses were left and right handed. or that we place the cinch on the heart girth, restricting the breathing.or that every step my horse took, with a saddle on. the saddle was shifting, because the back of the saddle was not secured down...

...So it either had to be soooo tight she can't breath..or so loose I couldn't get on without assistance...she wants to get home and get that cinch off...
Golly. I'm not super smart about riding, but I've never read, seen or heard of kicking a horse in the belly to cinch them up. Maybe I just live in a place of equine knowledge, but everyone I've ever met cinches the horse some, walks a little, and tightens. Most will check the cinch after 5 minutes of riding.

Mounting techniques vary, but make a difference. I recommend this older thread:

http://www.horseforum.com/western-riding/mounting-using-horn-47065/

A cinch does not restrict breathing. Not unless you tighten it with the hammer of Thor or have muscles that Schwarzenegger only dreamed about in his prime. The ribs move out to the sides, not down to the ground. A properly tightened cinch has slack in the sides, allowing the horse to breath, just as I can breath while carrying a backpack.

You might want to buy a book on saddle fitting, or read some of the many threads here. A proper fitting saddle will not slide all over. It is like two spoons placed against each other - if the fit is right, the spoons 'want' to stay like that.

I recommend reading for a while at this site:

Factors That Affect Tree Fit

My own technique is to place the saddle where I think it should go, attach the cinch just enough to stop it from dragging, and then walk the horse thru a figure 8. The saddle, gravity and the horse's movement put the saddle where it 'wants' to go, and only then do I start tightening the cinch. With my own horse & saddle, I don't really need to do that any more - but I do.

The back of the saddle does not need to be secured down. If you need to tie it down, you need a different saddle.

FWIW, my horses have never shown any sign of wanting to get the cinch off. I don't ride them very hard, but they all appreciate having the bit removed - maybe because they associate that with "It's Miller time!" (In their case, "It's pellet time!")

It isn't just that you seem to be solving a problem that doesn't exist. You seem to be thinking the cinch secures the saddle to the horse. It shouldn't. In part it does, of course, but a saddle that fits will stay there at a walk or trot without a cinch.

Last year, when I went out to check on my daughter riding our Appy, something looked odd. It took me a moment to figure out what it was. Then I went and stopped her, and pointed out the cinch had come undone and was hanging a couple of inches below the horse. She had been trotting circles happily and hadn't noticed.

When the saddle fits the horse (and I'm sure it helped that our Appy has good withers), it is the saddle's fit that keeps it there. If mounting is a problem, then a mounting block can help a lot. But I think you need to learn more about horses & saddles before you try to solve the 'problem' of cinches...
 

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Its been medically proven that a correct fitting saddle and cinch won't cause any kind of pain or discomfort. And I agree that if I tried to use any kind of cross-strap to the back of my saddle Annie would have a hard time breathing. And it definately wouldn't work for a horse with a blown out ribcage.
I'd like to see how it works though.
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