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I ran Rusty into a tree

7K views 72 replies 28 participants last post by  tinyliny 
#1 ·
Rusty is a cool dude. He loves trails. But sometimes, he decides he wants to run and it's not always in a place where I can allow it. So yesterday, DD and I decided to explore a new trail that runs behind the neighbors' properties (with their permission of course). As soon as we left our usual trail to go on this new one, he started to trot, then canter. Well, there are very low branches on this stretch, any one of which can take me right off the saddle. We get through there by laying on our horses' backs.

So as he took off, I did the usual fruitless attempts to stop him. One rein stop, etc. But as always, nothing worked. So I turned him in towards the trees on the side of the trail. It didn't deter him. He ran headfirst into a tree. Literally, he stuck his face right into the trunk of an old fir. Ended up with a bunch of twigs attached to his bridle. I was able to lean over and pick them off.

Thoughts on whether this is a bad idea? After I did this, anytime he would suddenly decide to speed up (he also does it on a downhill stretch), I would do a half-halt and he would immediately slow down again. I think he figured out that this crazy lady on his back was just nuts enough to run him into a tree so he'd better listen, lol. He's a quirky fellow, but you can get through to him if you're just as quirky. You just need some creativity.

What else would you do to slow down an over-enthusiastic horse? I can't practice the one-rein stop in the arena because he never gets very excited in there. Turning him only results in him cantering sideways. He's remarkably flexible that way. :shock:
 
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#2 ·
My first question is what are you riding him in in his mouth?

If you have a headstrong horse who you know is going to do certain actions no matter what amount of training you put on him then you need to just occasionally up the ante and make it unpleasant a experience for "Rusty" in this case.
Flay me if you want...
Running into trees is very risky for the horse and for the rider as a means of stopping your horse.
Impaling a branch into the horses face or yours is not unheard of, nor is breaking a neck.
For someone like you who rides with I bet a loose rein or soft contact and think you are into bitless with riding on trails...yes, my upping the ante is that horse would have a short curved shank solid mouth bit in his mouth next trail-ride out.
Yes, intentional he will get poll pressure and jaw pressure to change his train of thought and have him take notice of you and your directions.
I'm not going to play games with a broken mouth, direct rein snaffle bit...I want some heft to my gently given direction of slow down, turn, halt and stand-still when needed, as needed.
If I need to apply force and muscle the animal I surely can!
You have said Rusty is bull-headed about some things I believe in the past...if this is one of those things no amount of your training response systems can work through, then do what you must to keep you both safer.
And yes, a bit is only as strong as the person holding the reins makes it, the horse dictates with a good rider how much of a hold you take to their mouth and body.
Your horse, with what you describe is downright bolting which is darn scary to ride and impossible to control = dangerous for both your safety.
Yes, you can only work your issue on the trail...doesn't happen elsewhere and elsewhere he is a gem to ride..
It is very common that what a horse works in/as in one environment doesn't work everyplace...
Mental stimulation of your lazy nature horse on the trail brings out a different mindset, one you now need to make clearly understood he is not going to like the response he brings to himself when he stops listening to you.
He gets what he deserves...
Bit him up, but only use that bit with the capabilities of what it can do if you really take a hold as needed...
Don't be afraid to use that bit either to save your bacon!!

Rusty is smart...he figured out he can do as he pleases running on the trail.
Rusty will very quickly learn he can no longer be a bull and ignore you or he pays the penalty.
Rusty has your number and is taking advantage...time to even the score and gain back some respect.
:runninghorse2:...
That is my opinion...
 
#3 ·
It sounds like he has some leeway right now to choose the speed/gait without your direction. That can be nice, but can also be a slippery slope if the horse doesn't easily come back to you. Might want to remove that privilege for now until he's more responsive to you saying it's time to transition down a gait. You could do lots of planned transitions where you are clearing deciding "now we speed up" and expect him to stay in that gait until you say "now we slow down." If you have steep hills, sometimes that can work to your advantage if you are asking for a faster gait up the hill knowing the horse may appreciate taking a deep breath and slowing down at the top. It certainly doesn't sound fun to have to run the horse into a tree, and dangerous as HLG outlined. I'd think of a different strategy.


Edited to add: I do think it's important that a horse that's really enthusiastic to go gets the chance to move out during the ride. My own horse, if I ride with my riding buddy who has a much slower walk, I find that if I'm spending a lot of time holding her back, she gets more and more resentful and then if I do ask her to trot or canter, it's a bit of an explosion. One thing that has worked for us is mounting up and trotting right off right at the very beginning of the ride. When she starts off having the chance to really move her feet and go forward, she seems much less irritated later in the ride when there are reasons I'm asking her to stay at a walk.
 
#4 ·
You said you can make him turn, right? 1've never ridden a horse like that personally, but this is advice my brother has been given on a horse similar to yours (except on cross country). As soon as he gets even the tiniest bit excited, make him do circles, spiraling in, leg yielding, bending, etc, until he's as calm as you want. Then you continue, and if he gets excited again, rinse and repeat. Make sure he's moving his feet though, if you just wheel him around on the spot he will just get more excited. It is also important to do this before he takes off. The idea is to get his mind back on you, and not running off.

Second hand advice, I know, but maybe it will help? I've also heard of people teaching a halt queue from canter in the round yard/arena, so if their horse takes off they just say the queue and usually, it's enough to gain back enough control. Dunno if that would work, just an idea.
 
#5 ·
My oldest horse used to do that to me. I can't tell you how many times we had a perfect trail ride and then suddenly he would go... and go... and the speed would intensify. I would have his nose touching my knee while he ran straight ahead. I would jerk and pull and get mad. My remedy probably won't work for you and it wasn't exactly safe. I would swing my leg out of the saddle as if I were dismounting. He thought he won because I was getting off so he would slow or stop and then I would plant my seat back in the saddle but this time I'd be ready and spin circles without allowing him to stop. I sometimes would spend thirty minutes spinning circles as I went down a trail. I didn't have a trainer back then. I was a know it all teen and there was no horseforum so I figured things out as I went. They may not have been the smartest options but they worked.

I wasn't typing this to give any kind of advice, I just remember going through what you described and I wanted to respond so that you know you aren't the only one this has happened to.

I was never brave enough to run him into an object because I didn't think he would stop.
 
#15 ·
Trigger. This was Trigger. Still is, but he's listening better these days. We still have to do the cool down circles, and sometimes I do what you did - act like I'm getting out of the saddle. He'll stop every time. I don't always get out of the saddle though.

Conversely, Leroy, whom I sold because he was a pig headed lout, would get set on a single course/direction, and wouldn't stop. It wasn't that he was running away with anyone, he just wouldn't acknowledge any attempts at changing his direction. He'd brace against the bit, wouldn't turn his head, and even keep walking forward with his head snugged up against your leg.


I fully believe he'd have walked off a cliff and killed himself and whoever was on him, he would get so dead set on having his way, no matter the terrain. If he could see a line through the woods, down a mountain, or across a road, he was by God going and it didn't matter where his feet went or that you, the person, couldn't fit under the tree limbs or didn't want to get raked through the honey locust trees, or hit by a bus. He was going straight on.


My daughter 'let' him do it one time with her... and he wasn't paying attention, he was fighting so hard to not go around a tree, that he plowed right into it, headfirst. Skinned his noggin and rung his bell, he hit it so hard.

Didn't change his way of thinking though. That's why I sold him. He was going to get someone hurt with his pig-headed, stubborn fit throwing.
 
#7 ·
Maybe even trying a hackamore? The different pressure points may make the difference. I'd try it first in a ring though.
 
#8 ·
Thanks all. So, to answer your question HLG, I ride him in a single-joined snaffle. I have ridden him bitless (even tackless) in the arena, but would not try that on a trail just yet. And I ride with full contact at all times, very short reins, and making sure he knows I am there every step of the way. Not pulling, just keeping elastic contact. No riding on the buckle with him just yet, except at the end of a ride in the arena when he's tired out.

And to be clear, he's not your super-energetic type. He just gets excited once in a while, then settles right back down. I'm sure he would take a few canter strides, then come back down. He's got more whoa than go. Problem is that I can't let him decide when he wants to take those few canter strides, and this was not a good place to do it. I am keeping him at a walk on trails for now, until he can show me that he's responsive. So no, he doesn't get to choose the gait. He can walk fast, but he has to stay at the walk.

And we weren't running full speed into the tree. He slowed down. I thought for sure he would stop before he got there... there was plenty of time, and I was reining him back the whole time thinking surely he will stop before we get to the tree. But nope.

Transitions may help, and I did a bunch of those afterwards. Circles don't do much. I'm hesitant to put a harsher bit in his mouth, but also very aware that he is not listening -- or only listening when he chooses to do so, which is about 95% of the time. After the tree event, he was perfect, even going downhill and even exploring new areas which normally gets him excited. We even went out into an open field where he would normally want to run, but nope. He was fine after that. But I agree, it's not the best way to cope with this situation.

I think he just needs lots and lots of trail practice, and I've been busy with DD on the show circuit. He is definitely very stubborn at times though, and this is something we will have to figure out.

Thanks for your suggestions everyone - I'll try some out to see if it helps.
 
#10 ·
Thanks all. So, to answer your question HLG, I ride him in a single-joined snaffle. I have ridden him bitless (even tackless) in the arena, but would not try that on a trail just yet. And I ride with full contact at all times, very short reins, and making sure he knows I am there every step of the way. Not pulling, just keeping elastic contact.

I'm hesitant to put a harsher bit in his mouth.

Good to know about the bit...
However, the bit change is a mind change to stimulation actually as a solid bar works on different parts of the mouth and poll, jaw pressure is a "wake-up" to him.
It is said that a solid bar, just a mullen mouth bit with shank is kinder in the mouth than a broken mouth snaffle in actuality.
Where it changes is you adding leverage points...

That change may be just enough to smarten up Rusty's brain to listen to you, excited or not.
Rusty did the same thing to himself by hitting that tree...wake-up but that type of action, tree-hitting, is not one I would want to do again ever.
:runninghorse2:...
 
#9 ·
I was taught a concept of "woah-cement", named so because the walls of the arena were cement for about 3ft up. The idea was you can use the walls to stop if the horse isn't otherwise respecting your aids. It's not for using at full speeds, usually for a horse who takes off after a fence. That way you are not pulling on them like crazy and they get the message of stopping.

I might not have gone for a tree, too small of a target, too easy to dodge around at the last minute and get unseated.

Do more arena work on the trails. Leg yields, shoulder in, transitions, ect.
 
#11 · (Edited)
This is similar to driving the drafts. A well trained driving horse is very light in the bit if trained correctly and brought on in a manner that says you don't need much (verbal cue, tug - keep in mind distance) to get the job done. BUT on the road many that I know and have worked with (myself included) use bits with a mullen mouth and military elbows with 4 settings. In the ring is the most comfortable, least pressure/lightest pressure only if you are signaling. At home working in a space where there is little distraction, no hazzards then reins in the ring. On the road working with a seasoned horse you'll see one or even two down. Put them in a Mardi Gras parade and it is 3 or 4 down. They know WHOA but if they can't hear, are distracted, not listening even a tug gets their attention and says HEY YOU I AM THE BRAIN in this outfit. If, heaven forbid, you have to stop on a dime you have the incentive for them to STOP. I've never used it/had to use it but the one time I needed it; it wasn't what was in the horse's mouth because the owner harnessed, didn't see the need because her very green (NOT road ready) horse was paired with a seasoned, older trainer horse. The young one stepped over the pole and panicked. She took off in a blind run, dragging the older horse and 14 passengers plus the owner (driver) and me. The owner was thrown clear and seriously injured and I was so fortunate to be able to grab the reins. I ran her into a parked car. She totaled it as she went up the side/back and ended up straddling it over the roof. Flattened it. It was that or my choice of oncoming traffic, Stout, 6 strand, 5 foot tall, barbed wire fence or up a train embankment that could have resulted in flipping the vehicle. That horse was under my training. She was no where near ready for going out, much less in a working situation. She had been introduced to that bit. She knew what it meant. She would have at the very least been manageable depending on which hole the reins were in. I had a prior injury (torn rotator cuff ) and was not supposed to be in any position to have reins in my hand at that point. I tore that entire shoulder apart and seriously injured the other side as well. All for the lack of the bit that could have stopped the entire mess before it even happened.



As HLG said - you are a very conscientious rider. You are aware of your hands. You are comfortable in your body and in the saddle. You are soft when you ride. Bitting up for you is insurance. It is not the way you will ride. You may actually find he becomes even softer.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I would put a one-rein stop on that horse a.s.a.p. Essentially it is just being able to spin your horse around by grabbing one rein. You start teaching it a standstill. Though I don't think it is nearly as useful for stopping a horse which is bolting, as stopping a bolt before it happens. I've used it to stop a spook-spin-bolt right at the spook part, more than a few times.

I also think you should work on walk to trot and trot to walk transitions a lot on the trail. No cantering at all, until he is very responsive to those transitions. Then start with canter to trot to walk to canter to trot .... he needs to keep listening at any gait.

Brooke is another more whoa than go horse, but she can get excited at the canter on the trail. Sometimes if there's a long straightaway (especially one with some uphill at the end) I just let her run as fast as she wants, which can be flat out, at least for half a minute or so. But I didn't allow this for the first couple of years. I didn't trust her enough.
 
#13 ·
We call that spaghetti horse and it seems my family loves those type of horses. When my DD brought Sawyer home she would do this as well. She is a young/green horse and sometimes the excitement of it all was just too much and she did not listen to the bitless bridle. My daughter transitioned to an "S" hack after trying various bits that still did not work. The "S" hack has been great at getting a little more control and teaching Sawyer relief when she gives.
 
#14 ·
Hmmmm sorry to read this but glad to know I'm not alone. I do wonder if I also need to bit up but just temporarily for my first rides out end of this month. I made up a training schedule and am sticking to it. End of Aug is my first self-assigned 30min schooling followed by 10minutes hack at a trot only (once across the road and on the trail). Will try it in her current bit first. I also been practicing stopping suddenly from a trot and canter in the arena (shes forward but i make sure to push us to get a solid attempt) and it has given my confidence in her stopping power. I dont overdo it as worry about injury. I strongly underestimated her ability to stop on a dime from anything more than a walk o.o obviously I'd not do it on bad footing at ridiculous speed but it gives me more leeway as by the time my brain catches up shes already pounding ground. Shes not spaghetti thank goodness!!!!!!! What a good term. Anyway i will let you know how it goes as i think you and i are the exact same - we need to let them go to get them back. It's something my old instructor also used to say. But until we are happy getting them back we are scared to let them go not because of speed but safety 😞 what a hard circle to break!

I defo prefer a fence compared to a tree though! The fact he ran into it doesn't surprise me at all what a cheeky booger!
 
#16 ·
You're a fairly inexperienced rider on a green horse. He seems like a wonderful green horse but that's sometimes worse because you forget they are green. I think this horse needs a LOT more training then he has, I think you'll be able to do a lot of it yourself given your circumstances but this seems to be becoming more and more of an issue. I remember your first post of "he ran off on me!". I would definitely recommend outside help before he's learned that he's in charge, if he hasn't already. Maybe it's not a rear or a buck or a true bolt but this is equally dangerous and WILL become a habit (sounds like maybe it has)
 
#17 · (Edited)
Yes, I'd love to find a professional to put training on him, but currently, I'm broke, so that's not going to happen.

To be clear, it is not becoming a habit - we had 10 flawless rides between him deciding he wanted to gallop down a hill and not stopping before we were in a tree. And after the tree incident, we had a lovely ride where he listened to each one of my half-halts when I felt him getting a little excited. By the end he was totally quiet and actually lagged behind DD and Harley by quite a bit. He does get quite excited in the first 10 minutes of a ride, but then settles in. This happened within those first 10 minutes.

I'm not saying it was a good idea, and I may just try a full-cheek snaffle on him (since I happen to have one kicking around) to see if it makes a difference. As HLG points out, just the fact that it feels different might get his attention. But we didn't run into the tree at full speed. By the time he put his head in it, we were pretty much at a walk, which is why I thought it was funny that he did it anyway. It would have been easy for him to stop. I was telling him to stop. Comical, really, that he went ahead and put his face in it, but he didn't have a scratch on his face, nor did he hit it hard. Essentially, the trails here are lined with dense forest, so I just turned him into it to remove the temptation of speeding up more. It worked, sort of. But yeah, not the best technique, I agree.

I'll try a different bit and will work on transitions in the arena. Especially at the canter, he does tend to ignore me, but never for long because I have yet to convince him to actually canter all the way around the arena. After 3-5 strides, he's had enough. He's different on a trail though, and gets really excited to explore new places. It's just a matter of putting in lots of miles I think, and I wish I had more time to do that.
 
#18 ·
The fact that it's happening more then once shows it's becoming a habit, good rides are great but it should be happening never. Quality over quantity, he needs more miles sure, but not letting him do this is more important then anything else, not how to deal with it or getting him out more etc.

Prevention is key, why are you letting him trot if he's going to start to canter? You need to be strong, no it's not fun, but he NEEDS to listen. Strength comes from your core not just your arms. If I have a horse that wants to go I MAKE them walk, if they really want to go this often ends up in us jigging all around, but at least they listen. (and if they want to go that bad you need to consider why). You need the proper tools to hold him back. You really need to be the rider and not the passenger here. Someone riding him would help but he'll just do it again with you so teaching you to be a STRONG rider is more important. This doesn't mean hauling him around, this means fitness/strength and knowing how to use it if you need to. You can be soft and strong, if you genuinely can't hold him then yes, bit him up. Letting a green horse learn a bad habit is extremely difficult to get past. You can't be soft unless you are strong, and you can't teach him to listen to soft if you can't get him to listen to strong! Soft is something you work towards, but you need to be able to back that up otherwise ultimately the horse will do whatever it wants, which might be to listen to you...until it isn't.

It's worth playing with different bits. You don't necessarily need to go crazy. Like I said prevention is the most important part and you haven't explained what happened, it sounded like you let him speed up then couldn't get him to stop? Simply don't let him, YOU pick what you do. And whenever you get the time maybe work on listening at a canter somewhere he wants to go, but make sure you plan that intentionally and are able to get the desired response. He needs to be 100% at a walk before you can expect him to listen at a canter when excited. I think working on the basics is just as important. And I'd look up different emergency stops, it's not just one, and emergency stops aren't about being pretty or nice to the horse, they are often quite the opposite, and it's about regaining control.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Yep, this is a situation where I'd be upping the ante on his bit, too. Put a mechanical hack on him over his regular bridle and use it HARD when he tries to tank off. Or a curb bit, or whatever you want--- but one that will back him off and make him respectful. If he's quiet and obedient the rest of the ride, then the big ol' bit isn't going to be uncomfortable for him so don't feel guilty about it. I would ride a horse like this in a pelham or double bridle, so if he needs it, that curb is there. If not, we ride on the snaffle.

If you want to keep him in a snaffle, would a running martingale help? When does his delightful little trick, where's his head? If his nose is out, a running martingale adjusted a little tighter than normal would also not be a bad idea.

Having seen the aftermath of a horse who spooked a few jumps and headfirsted into a tree and ran a short branch right into his eye and brain, it's not something I'd recommend...

Rusty sounds like a great little horse, but he does need more training before this becomes a habit, escalates in intensity, and one or both of you is hurt. I'd work on him in an arena and put a good one-rein stop on him right now. Not a 'bend your head around and keep going' thing, but a STOP. On a horse who bends his head around but won't turn, I ride in spurs and have no qualms about reaching forward and spurring that outside shoulder until he learns he has to follow his nose and not take off with me. It usually only takes a few tries before the horse realizes his little trick isn't going to work, learns the response I want, and our issues are over. I'd rather really get after a horse a few times than have one that continually does an annoying or dangerous habit and ends up hurting one or both of us. Rusty's 'minor issue' could be a major issue if he ever does it on a trail with a drop-off or on a road with oncoming traffic. It IS an evasion, and it needs to stop.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I also use a pelham or double. I have also used a kimberwick successfully. That style seems to do the trick beautifully!

And agree completely, right now it may be a slight annoyance but it's headed down a clear path.

I'm glad you're able to be strong physically, just make sure you are strong mentally and don't hesitate to haul on him or kick him etc. "Be nasty". I don't need to tell you this is only if needed, but if needed you do need to up the ante and get more physical with him. Ask tell make, if you reach make you need to do what it takes. It's multi-part, working on overall training and responsiveness, and preventing the situation from occuring but if those things fail you need to be able to make him listen. A hard yank on one side and a heel in the ribs will almost always get them to turn, it sounds like (so far) you've been able to shut him down before he's an actual runaway, at a trot he should still be fairly controllable even if you don't have brakes. An actual runaway like some of the scary stories shared WILL NOT STOP, Rusty isn't a runaway he's making a conscious choice to ignore you (almost worse, because he's choosing to be bad vs blind reaction!) so you have a chance of a response if you act right, timing is key, a horse in a blind panic you don't. It's not anything you've written just from all your posts over the year that make me think you may not be getting after him appropriately. I could be completely wrong, I just know how kind and loving you are with your horses and it can be difficult to really step up like that in situations that call for it. So don't keep on asking when the situation calls for making, and hopefully you won't need to move on to "emergency" measures. My feel (and again, could be completely incorrect) is that you went from asking ineffectively to running him into a tree, while effective obviously not the ideal solution and it doesn't teach him anything.
 
#20 ·
Yeah, I second the playing with different bits idea, but do be careful. It's easy to equate a bigger bit with better brakes. I made that mistake and it was a miserable time for me and the horse both... All I needed was a three piece mouth piece bit (Life saver) with shanks and a properly adjusted curb chain.... and a lot of cool down circles. I also had to recognize very early and quickly the signs of Trigger about to 'get away from me'. Riding narrow, twisty trails with thick growth on either side really curtailed his desire to run off with people, and hauling him away from home, riding him on long rides with nothing to look forward to when we got back to camp, except hay, water, and standing around until we went out again, also helped curtail his problems.
 
#21 ·
I am NOT letting him trot on the trail. I will only let him walk until he shows me he can be good. He sped up. I do use my core and I am stronger than most women I know.

We were walking. We turned onto a new trail and there was a slight downhill grade so he started trotting. I told him to stop, tried to turn him into a circle, he kept going so I aimed him at a tree. That was my emergency stop, lol.

But I get it, not the best idea. It was effective though, because he listened after that. Will look at other emergency stops.

I don't think it's a habit to speed up unasked just because he did it twice in a summer, and I am very aware that this is not something I want to tolerate. He's stubborn and green, and he will test me. But with patience and persistence, he gives in eventually.

I do like @Kalraii's idea of practicing stopping from various gaits in the arena. That's something we can incorporate into our rides, as well as doing lots of transitions on the trail. Which is what I did after the tree incident, actually. Half-halts when he got a little excited, transitions here and there. And the rest of the ride was perfect.
 
#35 ·
I am NOT letting him trot on the trail. I will only let him walk until he shows me he can be good. He sped up. I do use my core and I am stronger than most women I know.

We were walking. We turned onto a new trail and there was a slight downhill grade so he started trotting. I told him to stop, tried to turn him into a circle, he kept going so I aimed him at a tree. That was my emergency stop, lol.
Do you think the downhill was a significant feature in what happened? How "downhill" are we talking about? If you attempt to walk down a snow-covered ravine in winter, you too will speed up.

I don't know how many other instances you had with him taking off with you, but this isolated instance is, to me, just proof that he needs more confidence negotiating a downhill with iffy footing. Clinton Anderson says he should go down "like molasses." (Do you have inside jokes with your horse? When I get to a downhill with Hamlet where he'll most likely do some sliding, I tell him to "channel his inner molasses.")
 
#22 ·
Yes, work in stopping from all gaits in an arena, on a voice and rein cues then on a voice cue alone. Get him to where he will stop on a voice cue only, and immediately from all gaits. I back up several steps after each stop when training this. It gets the horse off his front end, gets the back end under him, and mentally teaches him that 'whoa' means 'shut it down now'. Then work on that outside the arena with a few distractions, then up the ante until you get it even in a new place with a group of horses and when he's excited. Lots of rollbacks along the fence also help teach this. Lope along about 12' out from a fence, say whoa, stop, then roll the horse back INTO the fence and lope off the other way. When he gets revved up, shut him down and roll him back into the fence again. Let him learn to control and rate himself. Think about it-- there's no way we, as people, can forcefully control a 1200 pound horse. What we're really doing is teaching him to control himself. This exercise works wonders for that. You can start at a trot if you want, too. Ask for the trot, and when he speeds up on his own, shut him down, roll him back, and try again. When he's got the idea there, do it at a lope. Anytime he speeds up without you asking, shut him down and turn him. Let him realize he needs to stay at the gait and speed you put him in until you ask him to speed up or slow down. This basic exercise is how reiners/cutters/cow horse folks get horses who can run flat out then come back on a soft cue and stop and stand, and who will hold a soft lope and not speed up until asked.
 
#24 ·
I think with more trail experience he will settle down,he's just ready to move along faster then you want. There are short shanked training bits that have more whoa to them then a regular snaffle. But try the full cheek snaffle first.

I think redirecting his energy when he wants to speed up would work. Use leg yielding ,half halts like you already do. Halt him have him yield his hindquarters, once you have his attention continue on at a walk. If able,have him zig zag through the trees so not just going straight ,keeps them thinking watching where they are going. Rusty is smart so I don't think it will take much to teach him ,that no you don't want to go cantering down the hill.

Sometimes putting a bit with shanks and curb chain is all that's needed,I had to put a shanked bit on my gelding for trail riding. Just some ideas that have worked for my horse.
 
#25 ·
Thanks @SilverMaple! That sounds like a very useful exercise. I like the idea of teaching a vocal cue. I don't regret turning him into a tree since he did not get hurt and was much better at listening to me after, but I think that it would have been better to avoid it, and at the very least, teaching him a vocal cue will allow me to give him a serious warning before I have to resort to something like this. He knows I mean business. But he's like a 4 year old who wants a candy bar in a store. Every once in a while, he's going to try to get away with stuff. I have no plans of letting him, but it would be a lot fairer and safer if he was taught a cue that would make it very clear that he needs to listen now.

Because this is not fear or anxiety. He's not shutting down, or running away from something, not bolting or spooking - I had enough of that with Kodak to know the difference. He's just choosing to ignore me. No amount of pulling is working. Will try the roll back exercise along the fence!
 
#33 ·
Thanks @SilverMaple <snip> He's not shutting down, or running away from something, not bolting or spooking - I had enough of that with Kodak to know the difference. He's just choosing to ignore me. No amount of pulling is working. Will try the roll back exercise along the fence!
Just wanted to point out what you already know -- you cannot out-pull a horse, any horse. Your core muscles can't stop a horse. You can be as strong as a weightlifter and a horse can blow you away. What stops a horse is training. Same thing as what starts him and turns him. Only training. You can hurt him more with a stronger bit, but you can't stop him with one if he doesn't want to stop.

I'm not saying don't move up to a bit he will pay attention to, just for safety's sake at the moment. But it is a bandaid, not a cure.
 
#26 ·
More stories...
I have a mighty half draft that I worked with for about five years. Very confirmed in his bad habits. Just teaching him to give to the bit, it took both hands holding steady and not pulling on one rein to prevent him jerking the rein out of my hand. I finally found a bit that he would NOT pull against. It's called a Peewee bit. He never got over his sudden attempts to bolt, but the Peewee bit would stop him. I finally got sick of his dangerous behavior and retired him. He is an ex Amish road horse. I think he was thrashed past anything that frightened him. But I sure know how the mind kicks in for self preservation. It can evaluate options instantly. I can envision myself in your situation. Tree. Stop. Good. I ran a pair of driving ponies into a tree to avert a runaway. Worked. Never looked back. but like you, the tree was there before the runaway got started. John Lyons would say, you already know you're in a train wreck. You just have to try to keep the damage to a minimum.
 
#27 ·
I'd also recommend doing trail rides only when he's tired for awhile. If he's fresh, it's going to be a lot more likely he wants to speed up or go exploring off to one side rather than where you want. Ride for an hour in the arena, and when he's sweaty and a little tired, THEN open the gate and go off your trail ride. Walk along on a loose rein and let him relax.

I went back and re-read that your ride on contact with a short rein. Well, what if you don't? A lot of horses really don't like contact and don't know what to do with it, and it causes problems. A friend of mine has a TB mare that is a head-tossing, walk-faster, crank of a horse on the trails for her. For me, she walks along as good as gold, and the only difference is that I let her have a loose rein and only take up contact when asking for something, and she rides on contact all of the time. It might be something to try. Short reins and contact can tip you forward onto your pubic bone in the saddle, and then your whole body is telling the horse 'go' and you want him to stop. You think you're supporting the horse, when instead he's constantly waiting for a cue. Try sitting back on your pockets, tucking your tailbone underneath you, and giving Rusty a few more inches of rein and see what happens. If he speeds up, pick up your reins and stop and back him, then let him have more rein again. Let him make a mistake and correct him when he does, rather than trying to prevent the mistake. Sometimes that clear definition between 'go' and 'stop' makes all the difference to a horse mentally.
 
#28 ·
This is how I do the rollbacks along the fence --- I start a bit farther from the fence until the horse has the idea -- you want the fence to help him get his rear under him, but not hit his nose--, but it shows the sequence-- trot/lope, stop, back a step, then roll push out. On a catty little stock horse, it's not long before you can do it 4-5 feet out from the fence and the horse will come around like butter. This is an exercise that works wonders on a horse mentally by teaching him to deal with pressure yet control himself.

 
#31 ·
Another thought is that same with a dog or a horse that wants to go somewhere. Glad he's not barn sour but it works for anything - if they want to go somewhere don't let them until they are polite. It seems odd, but it does work headed away from the barn too. If you seen "forward propulsion" or any sort of excited energy either stop and stand until he is calm or calmly turn him around and walk away, or both. He can proceed forward when calm. I'm leash training two puppies not to pull lol so I was like "wait, duh!". I've used this on barn sour horses but like I said it works for any "I HAVE to go THERE" type of thing. They learn they CAN go there, when they are good, and if they are bad then they can't. The key is to do it very calmly and matter of fact-ly so they realize that THEY get to make the decision on if they can proceed or not.
 
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