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Just a Trail Horse - Discussion.

20K views 164 replies 50 participants last post by  AtokaGhosthorse 
#1 ·
I know there was, years ago, a thread about people who look down on trail horses, but it's probably going on two or three years ago it was used.

What made me want to start this one is a couple/three weeks ago, I was camped out vending tack at a friend's rodeo for three days. A local woman who is a trainer and horse trader, but known for her old school cowboy methods, decided to hang out at 'camp' with me for a while. I have mixed emotions about her - I want to like her, and yet something about her starts to genuinely tick me off, but that's a different story.

Anyway. She had brought a nice looking palomino gelding out just to have around the rodeo and for the kids that help me to ride him around to get some rust off him.

While drinking our beers and kicking around horse talk, she gestured to him where he was tied at her trailer.

"He ain't nothing fancy, ain't worth much. He's just a trail horse some trail riders sold me."

Now, she's dealing with a different caliber of horse, usually. She's usually dealing with rodeo athletes, not trail horses, I get that. And yes, there's a whole other level of skill and ability to the horses she usually trades in.

But the way she said it grated on me.

I've seen barrel horses that couldn't mentally cope with the terrain we ride, with the closeness of the woods, the narrow trails, the shadows and imaginary boogers. Lord have mercy if hogs ran out in front of some of these 'athletes'. I've known people who had perfectly good, excellent roping horses... that would blow in two in an open field or would nut out at a creek they didn't want to cross.

I've known a lot of these athletes that their rider couldn't trust them as far as they could throw them.

I held my peace, but I for one wouldn't take for my 'nothing fancy broke about them' horses. Personally, I think there's something very fancy about hopping over a fallen tree, recovering from a trip into a rabbit hole, trotting through a creek, or kicking it into 4wd and going off roading. I think there's something incredibly fancy about dropping down a 20ft tall creek bank at a steep angle, and riding it out flawlessly and imagining, for just a second, you were on Jim's Ride (Man from Snowy River). I think there's something terribly fancy about a horse that stops on the trail and watches a sounder of wild hogs tear across our path - and doesn't lose his or her mind but stays motionless and rock solid (Trigger), or wants you to let her run them down (Gina).

I think there's something terribly fancy about a Welsh/Quarter horse cross pony that at the age of 3, is willing to go anywhere you point her one day, and drag a downed cow up into the stock trailer the next on the first try.

I think there's something very special about a good trail horse and the trust you develop in one another. And - they are, in my opinion and in their own right, true athletes.

They must have endurance, agility, nerves of steel, be willing and eager to go, and have a strong sense of self-preservation so they don't get you in trouble, so you don't get THEM in trouble, and you have to trust one another, rely on one another, and be kind to one another.

I'll take Trigger, Gina, or Oops, and in his day, Superman, over some of that chick's 'fancy broke' horses any day.

;)

PS - I'm not besmirching horses in other disciplines at ALL. There's a horse and a discipline for almost anyone. It just gets old to hear people dismiss a fine redneck equitation horse.
 
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#3 ·
Almost every ride I come back from, I have a mental list compiled of all the brave things my horse did that ride. At this point, the list includes handling: mud, snow, ice, rocks, streams; turkeys flying up in her face; deer bolting across the trail; mountain bikes zooming down a steep hill behind her; off-leash dogs losing their heads barking at her; loose calves in the road; baby strollers with crying kids; horses riding towards and away from her out of the woods; threading between two huge hay balers that were basically touching her sides; shooting in the woods; camo-ed hunters sheepishly crawling out from behind a tree with full bow-and-arrow and apologizing for being where they shouldn't have been...

Those are just the things that came to mind quickly, she's faced more I'm sure.

I don't know yet if she'll be fast enough to be an endurance horse, but in the 1.5 years I've had her I do know for sure that she's a pretty awesome trailhorse and I appreciate her for it!
 
#4 ·
A horse that is "just a trail horse " is a wonderful animal indeed. Much sought after in some areas and often hard to find.

Our horses over the years had to be multitalented, we would show but also expected these horses to go out on trails and do a good job there as well. Perhaps they weren't top competing horses but good at many levels which made them nice horses to have around.
 
#5 ·
I had an instructor tell me that my horse (irish draught x something we dont know) is wasted on me. She should be out there jumping and hunting and living the life. Not stuck with me. They asked me twice why I didn't "just" get a cob. As if that was any better. I love cobs and would have been more than happy with one but I just worked with what was on offer and that was compatible for me. They asked if I was planning on selling mine - I'd only had her for just over a year at that point :< Obviously never got them back -.- But that was definitely the most hurtful comment I got since owning Katie and I still remember it from time to time.

Fortunately she doesn't give a hoot what her job is only that she has one. We're getting there with the trails :)
 
#6 ·
Yeah, a few people have muttered that Gina is 'wasted' on us. She could have been taken in any direction - roper, barrel racer, pick up horse, you name it... but we take on the woods and the creeks with her. Couldn't ask for a better 4wd horse - she can climb anything and her descent is one where she tucks her butt way down low and does this weird slide on the back in, feet moving slowly on the front end. She'll 'sniff' her way through really rough, rocky footing in the mountains too.


We kinda laugh and shrug now and tell them: Eh. She hates cows but isn't the least bit cowy or rodeoy. She's doing what she does best as a badass trail horse.
 
#7 ·
Well, you already know my opinion. "Nothing fancy" is not a disparaging remark on the quality of the horse, but on its earnings potential in the current show disciplines. It's like a motorcycle racer calling someones trusty trail bike "nothing fancy (just a dirt bike)". Yes, you won't win the Grand Prix on that dirt bike (and money for nothing and your chicks for free), but one hardly encompasses the functionality of the other in order to warrant a "superior" label.

My five dollar bottle of beer is hardly "fancy" compared to your $100 bottle of champaign. That is a true statement, but it also doesn't mean that I drink lousy beer. And if burgers are served for food, guess who'll have more enjoyment out of their meal? :)

You don't want a fancy horse, you want the best horse for the activity at hand. Nobody wins a marathon wearing a fancy tuxedo. It's a meaningless term.
 
#8 · (Edited)
There aren't as many rodeo type events here but I have slowly started to sense this divide. I've even spoken the phrase myself, "I just want to trail ride." As if that makes my goals somehow less than another rider's. Often I say this simply to fend off the assumption that, because we've found out that Dreama is gaited, I would suddenly change my goals and want to go to the local fun-shows.

I don't. I don't want that for us as a team. I love to watch horses and riders at those shows but it's not something I'm interested in doing myself. Someone at my knitting group even asked if I was going to "jump my horse." Even though the comments are often well-meaning, there is a general lack of understanding about what one is supposed to do with a horse if not to show.

I've turned out to be EXTREMELY lucky in our situation. The more the family I board with work with Dreama, the more we try to piece together her story. My instructors think she once may have been someone's show horse (at what level, we don't know, and will never know as we have no contact with anyone who owned her prior to the pound). The husband has done a variety of work in different horse disciplines over the years and says she steps like a horse that might have once had pads or heavy shoes on her front feet to enhance her natural gait more. Again, we'll never know for sure. But she's flashy, fast and showy.

But on the other hand, she has yet to spook or refuse out on the trail. The back of this family's property is STEEP. Up into and down out of the woods. I've been riding their horses as they've worked with her, so I've had the opportunity to see her confidence out on the trail. She's careful of her feet. I've watched her trip and then right herself with a rider. On our most recent ride, down the road and into the woods on a more gentle trail, she didn't shy at things that the other horses did: birds flying out from under a bridge, new feeder in a field, dogs barking, a tractor driving by (too fast) etc. Never paused at the shallow water crossings. Her focus is to "go", doesn't matter what the obstacle is along the way but she seems to have a good sense of where to put her feet too. Now that she has figured out saddling-up means we're going out to see new things and do something interesting, she is perfectly and happily willing to do so.

If someone did show with her, it really seems to me like they also trail-rode with her. She knows a lot of things, it's just a matter of learning what she knows. But so far it seems like she's the kind of horse who would take you anywhere, if you can hold on for the ride.

The mustang and quarter horse I started taking riding lessons on with my instructors have been a blessing. They're trained in a western style; they neck rein, the quarter horse goes in a bosal instead of a bit... very "point-and-go" type of ride, very little contact with the mouth required. Very easy, accustomed to being ridden by small children. They have patiently carried me through everything and helped me gain the confidence to keep going (I'm sure they think of me as the biggest, clumsiest child they've ever known). Neither would win any awards but they are so level-headed and easy on the trail, I would gladly have either of them.

I made the comment just the other day on another post that that's one of the things that makes me appreciate this forum so much... there is such a wide variety of riders, people who show, who trail ride, or do both, and for the most part seem to respect each other's disciplines and just want to see healthy, happy horses.

It's a shame that so much of the horse-world seems divided into various camps. I feel very blessed to have found the help that I have locally, who understand my goals but I also think would truly support me if I wanted to get into some other discipline as well.
 
#9 ·
I will take and keep my "trail-horse" any day over most of my previously owned horses.
My horse is safe, wise and takes care of me, my family or any friend I may put astride...
I trust him with my life...
Would I have trusted my show-horses with my life, not on a bet in a show-ring or anyplace else, period.
You can not put a value on a animal that is entrusted with your life to carry you safely here or their and does it joyfully.

People who put down "just a trail-horse" are showing how foolish, closed-minded and naive they are...
Every horse has a special niche where they can excel...and where there value is...find it and you might find a value in that horseflesh skies the limit!!
:runninghorse2:...
 
#11 ·
I can't stand people that have that mentality. :icon_rolleyes: 'Just a trail horse'...there's a really good quote somewhere, I have to find it.

My OTTB is pretty bold, so she's definitely turning into a great trail horse. Still needs some work, but when we go on trails she acts like she's done it a million times. I think trail horses are pretty smart. They are bold, can go through many obstacles, water, etc. without a second thought. Not sure why people tend to belittle them so much.

Me personally? I get bored SO easily in an arena, & so does my horse. I NEED to go on trails or ride in a darn pasture. :lol:
 
#12 ·
Anyone who's ever 'made' a trail horse knows that as much goes into it as any other discipline. Maybe not as much money and chemicals, but just as much training and your horse has to have the physical and emotional aptitude as well.

Example of training ... I was at a TREC clinic (trail-obstacle competition thing) last year and we were introduced to the gate obstacle. Some of the horses could not be gotten within yards of the thing, much less go through it. Not because they were crazy show horses, but because negotiating a gate from horseback requires a lot of patient training. Brooke and I managed gates on a daily basis in California, and these were not dainty little obstacle-gates but heavy road gates fastened with chains set below your stirrup height and on steep roads with dangerous drop-offs. Not easy gates.

So this one was a piece of cake. Because Brooke is a trail horse and has skills.
 

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#14 ·
I am probably one of those people who'd say "he's just a trail horse". But I think the term 'trail horse' got thrown on a lot of horses who didn't excel as say, a cutter, rope horse, barrel horse, etc.
It doesn't mean the horse is worthless by no means. And honestly, if the horse fits your needs and excels at what you ask of him, who gives a sh!t?

Stilts, as much as I love him and as many miles and country he has seen cowboying on him should be awesome outside but he is a horrible trail horse.
He really excels as an arena horse or working " inside", sorting, loading cow trucks, branding calves.
When it's a day of inside work, he's my first pick I can do all those things probably with nothing more than a piece of baling twine around his neck. On the outside days, I'll catch someone else to ride. I see the value of a horse who is "just a trail horse".

With that said, there are some horses who haven't been given the opportunity or time to become good outside. I don't think people realize it needs work just like anything else you train a horse to do but I do think there are some horses better suited for it than others.
 
#16 ·
Bandit was used for informal relay races - 10+ mile legs. He grew up in very open country. He had been forced (whipped) past things and he found the washes and trails of southern Arizona overwhelming. Although NOT as evil as THIS is:



SCARY!​

It has taken 4 years to get him to where we are at now. He's pretty comfortable in the desert with another horse behind him. He is still working on going solo. But on a solo ride today, we picked our way between some cactus where I have no idea how he slipped thru without getting poked by spines. I think we're getting close to the breakthrough point where he stops thinking about the horses he left behind in the corral. He's learned to talk to me about things that worry him and that, if he'll trust me, I'll keep him safe. We went from spinning and running away and bucking to a horse I no longer wear a helmet with. He's my teammate now.

That took a lot of riding into scary situations and THEN proving I could help him. It has taken time to convince him I'll never whip him past anything. He knows his smell and hearing beats mine, but that I'm very good at handling something I see - so he points things out to me.

It works both ways. Now when he tells me, "I've got it!", I stop worrying. If he says he'll go between the cactus, he'll also get ME between them. Having a teammate on the trail is a wonderful thing, but not all horses are born to it and it certainly is nothing to sneeze at.

It has taken us work. My 7 years with Mia left ME with some deep fears. He's had to teach me even as I've been teaching him. A horse who thinks "WE" is a wonderful thing. Although a horse may think a rider who thinks "WE" is also a wonderful thing. I remember being told I couldn't take Mia out on a trail until I had "body control". In reality, I needed to take her out because she would never learn to trust me on a trail until I proved myself to her on a trail. Same with Bandit. We needed to ride into scary places before we could trust each other in scary places. And that involves work.

I know people put a lot of work into their competition horses. And I know some horses were born to be good trail horses. But some of us have worked to teach our horses to be good trail horses - and are proud of the horses we now have.
 
#17 ·
Wow, I really agree everything everyone is saying here!

I bought my girl mainly for trails, and I have been working really hard to get her to where I want her to be. She can be ridden on the road to get to the trails with giant garbage trucks passing by, and she's stood still as a giant flock of wild turkeys has flown up into her face. One of my proudest moments was when I was just learning the trails at my barn, and we stumbled upon a playground. First of all, she had NEVER seen a playground, and I expected her to spook at the brightly-coloured slides/climbers...but she had no reaction. Not even a second look. On top of that, the playground was very busy...as soon as we were spotted, a group of children came charging at us screaming...and still she just stood calmly. She even let them come up to her and pet her. We ride through neighbourhoods, football fields, and parks. She's even helped me find my way home when I've gotten lost, because she always remembers the way!

Whenever someone asks what I "do" with her, I say we trail ride. It seems like people are always disappointed by that answer. But there are so many girls I board with who have competitive, "fancy-broke" horses who can't be taken on the trails as they are too high-strung. My mare might not be A-circuit material, but hell if she doesn't keep me safe doing what I love to do. Being completely trail safe takes a lot of work and training, which people who don't often trail ride don't seem to realize!:cowboy:
 
#18 ·
<snip>... But there are so many girls I board with who have competitive, "fancy-broke" horses who can't be taken on the trails as they are too high-strung. </snip>
Some of those horses would be fine trail horses if given a chance to be. It's their riders who are frightened to go on trails, often as not.

I have a friend who has 'decompressed' saddle seat show horses into actual usable riding horses. She told me it takes at least a year of mostly just grazing in a pasture (something most of them have never done since they were weaned) before their brains start working normally, and many hours of walking on a loose rein before they realize they can relax under saddle. But most of them come around very well.
 
#21 ·
TodaY Sis and I went out for a ride on our two new horses. We don't know how much trail riding they have done, probably not much and this spring was so bad with mud and then an awful crop of deer/barn/horse flies (probably due to the extreme wet wheather) we didn't get out much.
now the wheat is harvested the fields are open to us so we went out along the edge of a bean field into a wheat field then planned to cut through a narrow pass between a couple of woods to the field behind.
As we approached the deer flies attacked and we went thru this wide
alley at a good fast trot, These horses have never been there before and there's all kinds of stuff piled up and stored there I was leading on my niece's mare and she was so brave, looking at everything but stepping right along, just because I asked her too. I was proud of her and I think she will do well when we can get out on some of our trails with some rough going.

Hopefully they will also be able to go to some shows as well. The gelding has done one already and was very good, this after we had him for only 3 weeks.

they may not be professionally trained show horses but they are good horses.

And also horses really don't care if they ever reach their potential, means nothing to them, and these high competition horses often are plagued with soundness issues because of the work they do.
 
#23 ·
I haven't read every post on this thread, been a long hot trying day. So I'll just repeat what I've said and posted for years. I LOVE my "fancy broke" show horses to pieces. And I wouldn't give the powder and lead it would take to blow them straight to the devil if they didn't have the mental fortitude and brains and heart and try to handle anything I can toss at them on the trail. I understand that "just a trail horse" may not be able to double into the show arena for any one or more of many different reasons (referring to breed type shows, not open) but if one of my show horses can't double into a trail horse, they don't stay long.

"Just a trail horse" is probably one of the most athletic, sanest, kindest, smartest horses you can find anywhere. I can't say the same about a lot of the "fancy broke show horses" that never get out of the arena. Talking down about "just a trail horse" shows a serious hole in that trainer's education and experience and tells me a lot about where I'd probably find the holes in her "fancy broke horse's" training.

And if your gut gets riled by this gal, there's probably a good reason, listen to it.
 
#24 ·
Oh and the bit about a show horse being too valuable to risk out on the trail. Nonsense, they aren't valuable enough if they can't handle it. When I was riding a show string and the trainer was based in
TX, I went down for 3-4 days a week to train and then we went showing on the weekends. I would take the horses for a "trail ride" around the area where the ranch was and then at the shows the first thing we did was to walk, in hand, around the grounds and let them find the Boogeymen. Then we'd progress to riding around the grounds and dealing with the noise, sights, crowds, dogs, yadda yadda yadda. Trainer always threw a wall eyed fit about me riding around outside of the arena. PFFFFFT a crowded indoor is a LOT scarier (to me) than riding around out in the open air.
 
#25 ·
Sensible, sound trail horses are the closest thing I've found to ranch horses.

We actually rope very few cattle to doctor them. We don't often sort bulls from cows, or cows from calves, so not much cutting action. But we do cover many miles over varied terrain, in all sorts of weather.

Some days are more stop than go, if you're working on fence, or checking grass varieties.

I find many show or sport horses like trails, too. I've hired out to take jumpers, 3 and 5 gaited saddle breds, barrel and rope horses, polo horses, and pleasure and equitation horses out on trails. It's really fun to watch their reactions to the many things you run into on trails, or in pastures. And I have a "cold" seat. I can generally get even hot horses walking out calmly pretty quick.
 
#26 ·
I HAVE a horse that is getting evermore daily fancy broke. He also lives a double life as my trail pony. Trail work is phenomenal for a show horse. I can see two main benefits:
1. Fitness without strain.
Slow work on hills will save the joints, and build the booty and topline you need for the collected work all without pounding on the joints and hooves.

2. If they're gonna be sane at a show it's because they've learned to be a sane, thinking creature everywhere else.

Mine did not start as a safe trail horse he started as a shot out of a gun at the chirp of a gopher, but we did work at it and we kept going out and seeing new and different things til it's something that is both old-hat and enjoyable for both of us. At this point I have a horse that will gamely swim, cross deadfall, climb mountains, go over bridges, and deal with wildlife and the occasional cow, and do it all on a loose rein. I also have a horse who can ride a killer volte and a half pass and a flying change. He's fancy broke and has been at shows and been the calmest creature while performing well. An arena with flowers on the cones has nothing on an angry badger. We've got this.
 

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#27 ·
Most of the trail horses I know are uneducated or have questionable soundness. That's why they have that job. You can point them in a direction and they won't spook, but good luck getting them to open a gate or pivot or any other useful action beyond stop, go, and go faster. All my "arena" horses can do most things a good trail horse does.

Around here, the good trail horses are usually qualified by riding mountain trails. I would not take my horse to the mountains.
 
#29 ·
Most of the trail horses I know are uneducated or have questionable soundness. That's why they have that job. You can point them in a direction and they won't spook, but good luck getting them to open a gate or pivot or any other useful action beyond stop, go, and go faster. All my "arena" horses can do most things a good trail horse does.

Around here, the good trail horses are usually qualified by riding mountain trails. I would not take my horse to the mountains. Out of curiosity, why not?
There are a lot of educated and sound trail horses out there. That's kind of a weird thing to say. :shrug:

My gelding that I raised from a foal (just a trail horse) went to a clinic and he was the only horse that knew how to move his shoulders and hind quarters independently. He also side passes both directions with ease and does gates, no problem. Stands stock still for mounting from both sides and parks next to any sort of mounting block I choose. He was well on his way to becoming the perfect trail horse until I rehomed him to a more confident rider........who also rides trails.

Now my first few trail horses didn't really do those things because I wasn't up to that level myself. It's hard to ask a horse for something you don't even know yourself. But the more educated the rider, the more educated the horse. Now when I buy a trail horse, getting them to moved off my legs is one of the first things I work on. Most of them probably know it but just haven't been asked lately. So we work on lateral movements, backing, moving front end, moving hind end, etc. I like a horse that moves off my legs just like everyone else. :cool:

One thing that is fun and good practice is every Halloween and Christmas I like to hang decorations on the trees on my favorite trail. Getting in just the right position to hang a Christmas ornament or a ghost give you lots of practice moving the horse's body exactly the way you want it. It also teaches them patience for standing still. That's how I got my current horse moving off my legs well. And just yesterday I took a hand saw and did a little trail maintenance and she was so awesome to get into just the position I asked her so I could saw the limbs and stand there patiently while I did it with the reins just hanging loose on her neck.

There is no reason a trail horse can't be soft in the bridle and move off your legs just as good as any other horse. It just takes a rider who is willing to practice it.

One thing I admit I don't do with my trail horses is work on leads. I am not really educated enough myself to teach them and to be honest, I have never seen the need for it in a trail horse. If we canter, we canter and we've always done fine on whatever lead the horse picks up naturally. So no, my trail horses aren't ready for the show ring. But they are light in the bridle, patient when we stop and move off my legs very well. :Angel:
 
#31 ·
I remember that thread from before and I'll repeat (maybe not verbatim) what I said then. I can take my "just a trail horse" and do just about anything with it. I might not win in the show arena but it will do it's best at whatever I ask of it and act like it has some sense while doing it. I've been on fancy broke show horses or competition horses (not mine) that only know their discipline. Ask anything else of them and it's like your riding an untrained horse. Not saying that the horse is at fault in those situations.

@ApuestoT, I don't understand unsound trail horses. Trail horses need to be sound to do their job unless your talking about riders that stick to flat, even ground only.
 
#32 ·
@trailhorserider

I wouldn't take my horse to the mountains because it wouldn't be safe. He's great to ride out, but ultimately he's a dressage horse, not a tail horse.

My point about the rest was there are plenty of horses who fit the stereotype. Might be my location. Lots of flat fields and little challenging terrain unless you go looking for it.
 
#33 ·
Why wouldn't it be safe? All he has to do is watch where he's putting his feet, and go up and down hills. As long as a horse is sound and calm, they just need experience. All horses have a million years of coping with moving over variable terrain in their DNA. If a horse is sound and sane, all it needs is experience and in some cases muscle tone, to traverse most any trail.

As I said before, most of "he can't be a trail horse" is in the mind of the rider not the horse.
 
#34 ·
@ApuetsoT I'm not sure if your area might be a situation like ours in general with what a lot of people want to call a trail horse.

Even though we live in a hilly area (we typically like to think of eastern KY as mountains, but in reality I believe we don't have true mountains, I think I've read before that they're actually foothills) where a horse could gain a lot of experience, and lovely state parks and national forest that could be ridden in, you find more and more that there is a lack of people who really take their horses out riding, other than a loop around the same property over and over.

This creates what they want to call "trail horses" but they really haven't traveled or done much. And it isn't the horse's fault, but they really haven't been exposed to enough to have real experience on a variety of trails. You see people selling horses all the time talking about how calm and kid-safe they are, or showing off one particular gait but you have to wonder how they would behave in a new area (I've seen that people tend to over-exaggerate the qualities of a horse they are trying to sell, I've even seen it in my own family.) Or they've indiscriminately bred a horse from parents that had poor qualities to begin with but were "pretty" and as a result created offspring that were unsound, which of course is then really unfit for a rider that might want to go out camping and spend any prolonged amount of time on trails.

I started out trying to learn from my Aunt and quickly found out that she and her fiance do next-to-nothing with their horses. They like having them, that's perfectly fine, but I quickly saw that their goals and mine were different. You can't ride a horse a few times a year and expect it to perform the way a horse does that's ridden multiple times weekly does... or even once a week or once every few weeks. That's true in any kind of riding.

I was just discussing this yesterday as I was taking my partner out to see the "Ranch" for the first time... eventually, when I've gained a lot more experience and feel comfortable riding on my own, and have my own property to keep my horse on, I would like to acquire a second horse, to ride but also to have a companion for my mare. She spent so long without being able to really be turned out with other horses I feel it would be unfair to eventually bring her from where she is now to a pasture alone. BUT it's also a daunting thought, trying to find a horse that would suit our needs in the area. That's still a very far-off thought, but hopefully when that time does come I'll still be connected to my instructors and be able to have one or both of them along for advice.
 
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