AND I DONT MEAN KICK HIM like in a mean way i mean like to get horses to go ya know, that kicka kick lol

 

If the problem has been repeating for that long even with correction it's past time to look elsewhere. It could be pain. Are you using spurs? What kind of built are you using? Did you check saddle fit? Do the problems repeat in an arena? With another rider?
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he has this problem everywhere. there is no pain.. ive had him vet checked. yes other riders have been on him. the saddle fits fine. he does it bareback as well. ive had many different bits on him from just a Oring saffle to a martha josie bit and then just a halter

 

you need help from a trainer. For this to go on this long is not ok. He sounds like he "has your number" and knows how to use it. He will only challenge you if he thinks he can succeed, which he is sure he can do past a walk. If you put a trainer up on him for a few sessions it would likely disapear, but if you cant learn how to deal with it your self you need to move on to a different horse or get some help.

Also, If you get to the point where you are mad at him, it might be time to get off, do some gound work and end the session. You cant correct a horse in anger.

It sounds like a very frustrating situation for horse and rider.

 

Yes it is, and i have other horses and i train horses and have worked with horses before with the same problem.. its just him.. and i cant move on to a different horse..he is a good horse and i want to keep him. I might do that, find a trainer there is one right down the road and maybe he can get him to listen..

 

You train horses?

This sounds like a very basic "I don't want to" attitude. If you train horses, this cannot be the first horse you have ever had with this attitude . . .

 

I had a friend that rode a gelding that sounded similar, all she needed was some coaching from a good trainer. Can help alot.

 

I agree you need a trainer. He's most certainly testing you, and obviously you haven't corrected him correctly because he hasn't stopped. If you still can't control him with a trainer it's time to get another horse that you can handle.

 

i can control him. once i worked him for the day he starts to listen its just a 15min thing everyday.. and then the rest of the ride is fine. and im not going to get another horse, i can handle him i have other horses as well. could it be because i dont ride him as much as i ride my other horses?

 

you must not understand what i am saying.... thats what i do with him... its not like i let him go to the right if he tries and i am trying to get him to go to the left. i make him go to the left... and he is just pushy and once he starts to listen we will have a great ride.. and the next day i have to do the same thing. with him not listening and what not.

and if you dont believe that i work with horses, thats what you believe honestly, but i do so believe what you want..
thanks

 

.. and he is just pushy and once he starts to listen we will have a great ride.. and the next day i have to do the same thing. with him not listening and what not.

Then exactly what you you asking?

 

There is a way to break him of it. It seems mean to me though. The local horse dealer here would tie your horses reins criss cross under your horses belly and tie the ends to the horn just so the horses head stays down. Not too tight but so that the horse can't pop his head up. Then he would lunge him in the walk, trot and canter. The horse learns the only release on the bit is when he keeps his head down.

I've seen him do it. I go over there and watch him and his crew fix bad habits so they can resell horses. This particular day, the horse learned it in a very short time.

 

every thing you have said up to this point sounds like a text book case of horse tests rider, rider doen't properly correct horse. Thats why people keep telling you to get a trainer to help, another perspective and some experienced help can often fix issues like this.

Many riders who are "over horsed" end up with this problem, some cant fix it, some lack the determination to, so its easier for horse and rider to part ways. Thats why you get that response.

Horses typically improve with correction, so the fact that this has been going on for so long without improvement says purhaps you are not giving him the correction he needs to improve.

 

okay..

 

Vets can miss a sore body. Have a chiropractor, accupuncturist or sports massage therapist come out and take a look at him...sometimes horses get so tight in the muscles that even though they don't look like there is pain, there is a lot. You may also want to find out if he has an ulcer, which would make him extremely grumpy and irritable.

 

thanks I rode him today and he was perfect so maybe i should just ride him more. Yesterday was the first time in a while that i rode him so maybe he just needs persistance..:P

 

Sounds like a personal problem.
Anywho, I think it's your fault. When you tell him to trot, you probably shift your weight forward (getting ahead of the horse and shifting more weight onto the forehand when you should really be taking weight off the forehand), and then kick/squeeze with your legs (tightens/locks the hip, especially if you squeeze, preventing back movement and tensing the horse). You might even raise your reins, bringing the head up and/or putting contact onto the bit which can confuse and irritate the horse.
When he protests, you are unable to ask him to go forward, and instead resort to kicking him until he moves. You probably shorten the reins (bringing the head up which makes the horse more nervous and also 'punishes' the horse when he takes a forward step because you probably don't follow his movement at that point), and/or pull on them to stop the bucking while also kicking him to get him moving. So basically you're saying "stop" with the reins and "go" with the leg.
Anything you do to correct him just makes the situation worse. You think it's his problem that he acts up when you want him to trot. I think you need to work a little more on yourself.
What you need to do is drop the reins. Make them as long as you can. Relax your legs. Honestly, he doesn't need your help to move. He can move just fine when you're not on him, I'm sure. To ask to trot, keep your hands down (or on his mane, not the saddlehorn), and do not shorten or move them to trot. "Click" at him and give a small push with your seat if you know how. If you need to, give a quick, gentle squeeze with your calves. Do not kick at him. That tightens your joints and body and makes the horse really not want to move. It might take a few seconds or tries to get him to trot like that, but he should do it. If he doesn't get it, you may kick with one leg, not both, just to get his attention, before going back to asking with your voice and seat.
Do NOT lean forward when he goes to trot. You don't need to and he doesn't want you to anyway.
Once he trots, do not try to correct him, even if he starts out super fast. If you must, post, or two-point. After a few strides, slowly get him under control. Sit tall and relaxed. Gripping just annoys him. If you need to, use two hands on the reins and open them, dropping them down to his shoulders. Don't bother just raising the reins and pulling on them. That annoys him and doesn't really help you.
If you still need help, just get a trainer. It's not really a huge deal. Just ask for a lesson or two. They'll be able to help you out.

 

Sounds like a personal problem.
What you need to do is drop the reins. Make them as long as you can. Relax your legs. Honestly, he doesn't need your help to move. He can move just fine when you're not on him, I'm sure. To ask to trot, keep your hands down (or on his mane, not the saddlehorn), and do not shorten or move them to trot. "Click" at him and give a small push with your seat if you know how. If you need to, give a quick, gentle squeeze with your calves. Do not kick at him. That tightens your joints and body and makes the horse really not want to move. It might take a few seconds or tries to get him to trot like that, but he should do it. If he doesn't get it, you may kick with one leg, not both, just to get his attention, before going back to asking with your voice and seat.
Do NOT lean forward when he goes to trot. You don't need to and he doesn't want you to anyway.
Once he trots, do not try to correct him, even if he starts out super fast. If you must, post, or two-point. After a few strides, slowly get him under control. Sit tall and relaxed. Gripping just annoys him. If you need to, use two hands on the reins and open them, dropping them down to his shoulders. Don't bother just raising the reins and pulling on them. That annoys him and doesn't really help you.
If you still need help, just get a trainer. It's not really a huge deal. Just ask for a lesson or two. They'll be able to help you out.

You know thats what i did today.. i was just realaxed and calmed down and loosened the reins switched his bit and rode bareback.. he was a different horse.. thanks for this info.. its helpful..

 

Lol, see? Just to add a tip: if you ever think your horse might be spooky, loosen the reins. They're soooo much more likely to react calmly then they will if you have their head up in the air. If they spook, so what? It only takes a second to reach to one rein and put them in a spin.
Anywho, if he was doing better bareback, you may want to check the saddle out. Sometimes saddles hit the withers or spine while the rider is posting and/or bouncing, and it can be painful, hence the bad behavior. It might look fine when you're on the ground or even just walking, but it can sink down while trotting. Just a thought.

 

Your mechanics might also be part of the problem. Your hands may not be steady enough, or since you mentioned loosening reins? It could be you are heavy handed and this horse resents it more than most.

But if you are having trouble after a couple of years and it hasn't stopped, then I too think you need a trainer, for you as well as horse. Just because you have ridden and worked with some green horses, does not mean you really know what you are doing. Hence the trouble you are having with this horse.

The head tossing could be a sign of bit problems, heavy hands, reins too tight, curb strap too tight, pain issues, rider unsteadiness or a myriad assortment of many other things.

But whatever is going on, you are not winning this battle. No horse should continually test each time it is ridden.

You need to figure out what is going on, and learn how to correct it. And that means a trainer for you and the horse too.

 

... No horse should continually test each time it is ridden...

They shouldn't but some will. My wife's horse used to. He is the most stubborn horse I've ever seen. He's an Arab mix. You can put an inexperienced rider on him and he's perfect. Put an experienced rider on him and he would test them. After about 15 minutes of testing, he would be just fine. We got him when he was about 3. He did this for 5 years. This last year he finally stopped doing it. I don't think it was his training or lack of it. I think he finally outgrew it or matured out of it. Riding more often did seem to help. Not riding him did not make it worse but more likely that he would do it.

Someone said to tie their reins under them to keep their head down. That may work with some horses. We actually tried that. It didn't work. My wife also got frustrated with him but there was no way that she was getting rid of him. She finally accepted that he was going to do it and dealt with it as best as she could knowing he would only do it for a short while and be done. Who knows, maybe he just needed to mature or outgrow it.
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You might also want to go back and do groundwork, then get in the saddle and do respect exercises in the saddle.. Just to get him really listening to you..

 

I think i am going to get the vet out to, because from my other 2 threads about him his knees to look a tad worrisome and the scar tissue to get that checcked out as well