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The Feeling of Riding English

3.9K views 19 replies 6 participants last post by  xxBarry Godden  
#1 ·
The Feeling of Riding English

The problem with an English saddle is that there is so little of it.
The advantage of an English saddle is that there is so little of it.


To ride a horse well, the rider needs to feel what the horse is thinking. There are two ears to watch and they act like semaphores. Then there is the angle of the horse’s nose; pitched anything from 5 o/c to 10 o/c. There is the pressure put by the horse on the bit. However it is what is felt that matters most. It is the rider’s job out on a ride to decide where the pair are going; the horse’s role is to carry the pair to the destination. So to perform the human must know what’s going on in the horse’s mind by deciphering through the legs and thighs the signals emanating up from the horse. In this way the rhythm, the fitness, the strength and the mood of the horse is transmitted up to the rider. So the smaller the saddle, the better.


In competitive jumping the rider’s job is to steer the horse round the course and to put the horse in the optimum position for take off. It then remains for the rider not to interfere with the horse’s landing. In dressage the rider’s job is to tell the horse which move comes next in the programme; the horse’s job is to perform the movement instantly. The dressage rider must give instructive aids sensitively. In both sports, subtle communication, backwards and forwards between equine and human, is essential.


When hacking out, what is going on the horse’s brain is of paramount importance for the rider to recognize. If the horse is going to freak out then the rider welcomes some warning. With most horses, the rider can feel the tension building. It might have been a slight hesitation, or perhaps just a flicker. The head might turn. The horse might grab at the bit. The rider has to pick up the vibes before it happens. Any instantaneous shy will have to be absorbed by the rider. On the other hand, in a good partnership, the rider feels when the horse is happy and all is going well. The rider then knows if he can take a few chances. The communication is not verbal, it is sensed. The feeling passes through the thighs, the calves and the hands.


A sure footed trail riding horse is a fabulous creature to ride English. The rider chooses the route which the eager horse negotiates with gusto. If the horse should falter, the rider will pick the horse up and vica versa. They become a pair. The pathway twists, turns and undulates. The horse picks its way through the obstacles. The feel yet again transmits from horse to rider and back again. The rider’s aids are instinctive, maybe just a hint of pressure, or a slight hesitation; a nudge of the calf or a subtle shift of weight. The instructions from the rider pass back down through the hands, the calves and the seat. Who, even if watching closely, would know?


Whatever the merits of a Western saddle and there are many, nothing beats the small English saddle for Feel. What lies between the rider and the horse should be the minimum of leather to keep the pair glued together, whatever the movement and despite the disruptive forces of motion. However to enjoy this communion, first the equine and the human have to come together to know each other’s idiosyncrasies and that takes time and familiarity. But Feeling is everything and too much leather deadens the transmission of it. Which is exactly why I prefer to ride English, even though those Western saddles are so comfortable.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE SUBJECT?
Barry G
 
#2 ·
It's interesting that you should post this topic today, Barry. My pony came with a Western roping saddle, but, as my dad frequently quips, we bought a saddle and got a free horse. Scout has gained weight all summer, working in English tack, and only now appeared wide enough to try fitting the saddle that he came with.

I tacked up this morning, carefully checking everything on the "new" saddle. I had to move the cinch down from the shortest hole to the longest one (A true testament to how far Scout's condition has come; the last time the saddle was on a horse was in May when my sister test rode Scout in that same saddle and cinch). I was fairly pleased with the fit, but concerned about the width of the pommel, and potential pressure points. I put Scout's bridle on and led him to the arena for a short ride, to see if my weight helped the questionable area at all.

Scout was full of himself, as is usual when I don't do much pre-ride groundwork, or when I ride before his breakfast (both the case this morning). I stuck like glue, but I felt like I had somewhat less control than in my English AP under similar circumstances. Like I didn't feel what he was doing fast enough to efficiently correct or compensate, and like he didn't feel my cues as clearly or respond as crisply as he did yesterday evening. Plus, the big roping-saddle horn was interfering with my "new" classical seat hands :lol:.

The pressure points are no better, I didn't ride long. This saddle needs a different horse. I have a semi-QH tree pleasure saddle that might fit him better if I want to play cowboy, and there's always my green cordura barrel/trail saddle that fits him like a gem.

Unless I'm going for a longer trail ride, or I think that I'll need the extra leather to hang on to, I go for my English saddle.
 
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#7 ·
Like I didn't feel what he was doing fast enough to efficiently correct or compensate, and like he didn't feel my cues as clearly or respond as crisply as he did yesterday evening.
The opposite is true when you are used to a western saddle and you switch to english. I am comfortable with both disciplines, I showed APHA youth classes in both. However I rode western since I could walk, and I did english two years, just to earn some points on an old show mare I had.
Today I test rode this horse that I was thinking I may lease. He was flighty and sensitive, and I felt EVERY MUSCLE in his body, his head movement seemed intensified because I could feel it before he would toss his head or anything.
I felt really unsteady because I COULD feel everything he was doing before I was prepared to correct it. He felt everything I did intensely, too. I barely applied pressure or adjusted my seat and he would change his movement dramatically. Granted he was a HIGHLY sensitive horse.
Anyway, just interesting. I don't knock english or western, I love both, but it's truly amazing how different they are. I had almost forgotten what the feeling of riding english was, until today. :)
 
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#4 ·
You'll be writing next that you have more than one type of English saddle.
Hmmm... I own one horse and 4 saddles... :shock: wow. And only one of them is English style. I think that needs to be rectified... lol.

Again, you read my mind. I'll actually probably end up selling the roper saddle to a good home (or gifting it to sis's bulldoggy QH) and looking into a legit dressage saddle. That should make things even. :lol:
 
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#6 ·
I have only one saddle, one of these : Premier, which I have used on the three horses I have owned and assorted others I have had to ride for people. The beauty of it is that the flexible panels means it fits most horses -- in fact that was why I bought that thing in the first place 13 or 14 years ago, as I was getting aggravated as hell trying to fit saddles as horses lost or gained weight and muscle. The disadvantage of it is that it's a *bear* to ride in (leg position? what leg position?) and everyone else who has ridden my horse has usually expressed their distaste for it. Luckily I have gotten so used to it that I hardly notice how much it sucks.

For a while I owned a wee German jumping saddle I'd bought for $300, which I quite liked and I started my youngster in before burdening him with the Orthoflex. It fit my mare for a few years and then she developed more back muscle so it stopped fitting and I started jumping in the Orthoflex. Yes, you really can jump in that monster.
 
#10 ·
Scoutrider
My Pathfinder saddle was made by keithbryansaddlery.com but his website is down. His phone number is OO441 922 628325 HIS FAX (YES!!) is on the same number. He is a true old fashioned saddle maker.
He makes saddles for British cavalry officers.

For you to window shop in, I suggest www.classicsaddlerywalsall.co.uk

My last saddle came from The Ideal Saddle Co UK - their "Jessica" might suit you. Do a Google search.

But beware we Brits see the saddle as a lot more important than I get the impression is the situation in the US. Here, you buy the horse, then the fitter comes to select and fit the saddle. The saddle is chosen by
cut ( ie GP, Jumping, dressage) 'length' ie 17 inch ( relevant to the rider's butt) and the length of the horse's back then 'width' - ie the shape of the horse back behind the wither. Sizes start as Standard, wide, extra wide, cob, etc ete
The saddle especially for dressage is the key item of tack and the proper fitting saddle puts the rider in the correct position for dressage riding.

As an idea of what is available by post from the UK look up www.rideaway.co.uk. But you don't buy a saddle by mail order.

And we pay the price - my Pathfinder cost around $1600 and the most recent Ideal saddle (a Grandee) for DiDi was closer to $1800. The Germans pay even more.

I would never dream of using a second hand saddle without first having a saddle fitter check in person that the saddle fitted the horse's back.

Getting the right saddle is a serious business, get the fitting wrong and all sorts of problems develop with the horse's back and the rider's seat.

Barry

PS I am not going to confess how much DiDi (the horse) cost in dollars. You'd think I bought a herd.
 
#13 ·
PS Your Morgan horse - The Morgan was said to be a Welsh Cob - or so the bouyos from Wales would have you believe. Indeed from the photos
he could be an old fashioned Welshie who incidentally are bred to ride and drive.

Barry
The only photos I have up on this site are of Scout. My part Morgan sadly passed this spring, at approxamately 20 years young. Here are some pics of Johnny from summer '08.
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Sorry about the sizes, I think my computer hates me today.

Johnny wasn't a tremendous show horse, but he loved trail riding, and was a brilliant halter pony. We crammed a lot of fun into 5 years...

I'm pretty sure Scout is mostly QH, but he has enough "poofy" hair and pony bent to his size and build that I would not be at all surprised to find some Welshie in his background. I have had others say that he looks Morgan as well. :D I'm a sucker for these large pony breeds and crosses!

Thanks so much for the additional info on the saddle! I'm definitely in the "window shopping" stage.

By and large, saddle fit is taken pretty seriously in the U.S. Granted, in my particular area of Hillbilly Heaven, there are some exceptions (and a distinct lack of professional fitters), but most riders are at least aware of the warning signs of a grossly improper fit. Sadly, there are a lot of "pad happy" people over here, who think that even a well fitting saddle can be made better with 3 numnahs, a western pad, and a gel cushion. :-x
 
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#12 ·
"But beware we Brits see the saddle as a lot more important than I get the impression is the situation in the US. Here, you buy the horse, then the fitter comes to select and fit the saddle. The saddle is chosen by
cut ( ie GP, Jumping, dressage) 'length' ie 17 inch ( relevant to the rider's butt) and the length of the horse's back then 'width' - ie the shape of the horse back behind the wither. Sizes start as Standard, wide, extra wide, cob, etc ete
The saddle especially for dressage is the key item of tack and the proper fitting saddle puts the rider in the correct position for dressage riding."

Gonna have to disagree with you there, Barry. I don't think the situation in the US is ANY different from what you described, at least not in the circles I hung out in. People obsessed over their saddle fit and half my barn had the phone numbers of the local saddlers memorized. I got to know mine all too well, which was why I gave up on the whole traditional tree saddle thing and bought the Orthoflex described above.
 
#18 ·
Hi Barry, its kelly! i found you! Hi also to the rest of the forum.

i agree with barry about the Saddle fitting here in the uk, its a BIG thing, and for not having a correctly fitted saddle the owner is classed as ignorant as it can cause the horse a lot of undue pain and stress.

I myself ride in a barefoot treeless saddle, over here (uk) its classed as semi- western, i guess that in the US is would be classed as semi-english! the reason i chose this saddle was easy, every time i put a saddle on my welsh sec D (even though they were properly fitted by a master saddler) he would go lame within 20 mins of riding him, he was in that much pain. I went through 4 new saddles, having them with an air cussion panels, flexi-panels, interchangable gullet widths...you name it i tried it, to no avail and a lot of expence! Then a friend let me try her bare foot as she was about to sell it as she couldnt get on with it on her arab.

It was amazing! for the first time in a long time he wasnt lame! he was even frisky being be able to 'feel' through his back for the first time. For me, at first, it was a pain in the bum. Iv trained classically with the BHS for a long time and riding on a saddle with no tree, no knee or thigh rolls, and a pommel and cantle that you can remove was so alien! i thought i would die in that saddle...it was that bad. now i would never put a horse i owned in anything but a treeless saddle. after riding in it for 5 years its amazing how it has made a difference to my riding and to the way i think of 'classical riding'.

i can now get on almost any saddle and have instant security and good posture in the saddle. you see the treeless i own is like riding bareback, you are in that close contact to the horse. and because of this it makes riding in both english and western saddles a doddle as both types feel like sitting in an arm chair!

I dont think you can knock either western or english saddles...as long as they are fitted correctly. but i dare you to try a truley treeless saddle like the barefoot...youll never go back!

Bellybaby x
 
#20 ·
Someone has shown me the video of Stacey Westfall - riding without saddle, reins or bit. I am a bit in awe.

Of all the horses I have ridden, I can't think of one which I would have been happy to sit on without brakes at all.

I am just still trying to work out whether she was riding English or Western. Whatever style it was I wish I could do it. I wish even more that I had a horse I could do it with.

Talk about minimal interference between the rider and the horse, there is only one way she could get any closer and if she did that then she might catch cold.

Barry G
 
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