A picture of your mare would help to tell if she's actually a bay dun or just a bay.

From the part of her I can see in the pic you put up, she looks just bay. Dun washes out the color on the body of the horse, leaving the head and legs slightly darker.

Bays can and do have counter-shading. My friend's brown (same gene as bay, just a different form of it) Arab gelding who you would swear was a dun because he has a "dorsal stripe" and what looks like leg barring, but Arabs don't carry the dun gene.

What color was the sire of the colt? In order for the colt to be dun, the sire or dam would have to be dun. All foals have primitive (i.e. dun) markings when they are born as a sort of camouflage.

 

Sire was dark chocolate with no other markings besides a blaze

Here is the fillies dam. This was a couple days before she foaled. This is the best pic I have of her at the moment. You can't see the stripe but she has one.

 

She almost looks like she could be a dun, but I'm not sure. One of her parents would have to be a dun in order for her to be a dun.

As for the sire. Is he an AQH? Is "dark chocolate" referring to what his coloring looks like? I'd be willing to bet he's a brown.

After looking at photos of grullo foals, I'm going to say your baby is just plain black. He doesn't have the mousey color that grullo foals have.

 

The sire is appendix qh. Thank you and I looked and I agree with you about the foal being black. Any chance of a smokey black? She has faded to look like a dark grullo now, and is still fading( from the sun) and I've heard that smokey blacks do that

 

Only way the foal could be smokey black is if one of the parents carried cream. Or, if the sire was a smokey black and no one knew it. Do you know the colors of the sire's parents?

 

No, but I will ask tomorrow

 

How old is the foal in that photo? To be honest, she doesn't exactly have the tones I associate with smokey blacks. (All were proven). They tend to have a more golden hue at what would be light points on a brown. They also tend to take on warmer tones (think chocolate) rather than greys like your filly. My smokey foal has a nearly gold coat around his eyes and in his ears in particular. The differences are subtle but there. I believe you have a lovely black colt. I've ateaches a couple rather unflattering pictures of Rem. I know he is smokey black as his parents are:
B? aa (mom)
BB A (bay) and a.
He's obviously not buckskin!

I'm just saying this with my past experiences with smokey blacks (proven) over the years. 10+ foals.

ETA: dad was a per lino so Rem has to carry cream. I forgot to include that!

 

Good example, Kati.

So Rem's dam is a bay, correct, and his sire is a perlino? So Rem is EeaaCrcr, yes?

 

No she's not. Dang it. My phone auto corrected my lowercase a into a capital a. Rem's dam is black as night. Quite a flashy little mare too!
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Ah. So only difference is that Rem is E_aaCrcr. Do you know if he's homozygous black, or heterozygous? I'm just curious. He's freaking adorable.

 

I don't know much about coloring on horses (as you can see). So you all think she will be black? I hope so!! I love black horses. So should I call the mare a bay or dun, or bay dun?

 

I'm leaning more toward bay for your mare, Spirit.

The filly is definitely black.

 

Thank you!

 

From what the body shot of the mare shows on my laptop, i would say dun or buckskin, not bay. The foal will shed out a diff color as he loses his baby hair.

 

The foal is black not grulla they are born tannish most of the time. What you are seeing is foal counter shading. The mare is bay I can tell by her color. Dun is a dilution and I see no dilution in her. She is a countershaded bay.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Here are some examples to tell the difference between dun and counter shading. Look at the crispness and coat dilution. the dorsal also continues into the tail.

Dun dorsals



Leg bars



Grullo foal


Counter shading and false leg bars



Posted via Mobile Device

 

The second counter-shading pic is an Arab, yes? That's what my friend's Arab gelding has. Had the hardest time convincing her that he wasn't dun. :lol:

 

And since I'm a visual learner one more pic. Check this bay dun out. Peachy matte of dun coat dilution he also has leg bars, facial masking, and guard hairs. Not all duns need all that dun factor (dorsal and dilution required only) but I want you check out the coloration mostly.

Posted via Mobile Device

 

Yes drafty the second counter shading pic and leg bars which are from the same horse are a purebred Arabian. Purebred Arabians carry no dun of course
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Ok so I know this thread was pretty much done but I wanted to see if y'all have the same opinion about the baby being black now that she is 3 weeks old. These pics were of her today.

 

I'd still say black and the mom looks more bay in those pics. In the body shot she looked dun, imo but in the better lighting bay. More pics would help.

Also, you didn't answer what color dad was.

I think you're getting stuck on using a description of the color as the color. The foal may LOOK grullo but she is black.. it's like calling a grey "white" or a seal brown "black" chestnut "brown" it gets very confusing.

If you don't know make it clear you are describing. "The sire is a dark chocolate color but brown all over" (ok probably a liver chestnut) or "dark chocolate with black points like a bay" (so maybe a dark bay or brown?) and we can ask other questions to help determine the actual color.

There is genotype and phenotype (what it is and what it looks like) it gets confusing when they are used inter changeably.

 

This is not The foals dad, but it is the color he was.

He may have been even darker. I can't believe I didn't take pics of him.

 

Lol I see the "dark chocolate!"

Unfortunately it's really hard for me to see from that picture. Did he have dark points the way your mare has? (Mane, tail, legs..)

I almost wonder if he/the foal is smokey black?

Let's see what other people say on the picture you posted.

 

The dad had no darker points, only a blaze

 

So maybe like this?

(The other picture you posted came up when I googled lol)

This is a very dark liver chestnut (they do come darker but I picked this one since you can actually tell it's a chestnut lol). Note the lack of points, esp on his legs the hairs get lighter and browner on the bottom (a good way to tell if the legs are black or brown).

Assuming the dad is a liver chestnut it doesn't really matter with the babies color as chestnut is recessive.

It means that baby has one black and one red gene, and (assuming black) no agouti genes (what makes a bay or brown).

Doesn't really matter if you aren't breeding but I find it interesting.

 

The dad looked like that, but not the lighter points around the flank and other points. So with what you said, what color would the foal be considered?

 

LOL! This is where I just HAVE TO KNOW! I'd be pulling tail hairs so I could find out, even if I wasn't going to breed the animal in question. My brain would run around in circles until I couldn't stand it anymore.

 

Not sure what you meant since I feel the horse pictured was relatively even colored...

He does sound like a liver chestnut, which would not effect the color of the foal at all (most recessive color) therefore I still vote black for baby