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Breeding a 3 year old mare?

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33K views 67 replies 28 participants last post by  Rumonek  
#1 ·
Are you for or against it? Pros/cons? Personal experiences?
 
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#3 ·
I've bred a two year old mare and she had her baby just fine and grew to the height she was supposed to be. I didn't know anything then or I probably wouldn't have bred her, but there were no negative results.

My mare who is due to foal in April is a coming 4 year old. She was bred at three of course and isn't having any trouble at all, other than requiring more food to keep her in the same shape once she entered the last trimester.

I personally don't think its bad at all breeding a three year old as long as they are a decent size. I've heard breeding a four year old is better for the mare however, because it allows her to finish growing herself without the added strain of carrying a foal.
 
#6 ·
I personally don't think its bad at all breeding a three year old as long as they are a decent size. I've heard breeding a four year old is better for the mare however, because it allows her to finish growing herself without the added strain of carrying a foal.
You can't just go off of size though. You need to look at the filly's joints. They don't close until they are over 5 years old. That's why you shouldn't ride young horses, and if they are ridden, it should be very lightly. So you breed a mare and add extra weight to her joints and knees that aren't closed yet? Not only that, all of the nutrition that you are feeding your mare is going to the foal, the mare is barely getting any. Just because her growth isn't stunted, doesn't mean that her body got all the nutrients that is should have.

And the fact that you say "I probably wouldn't have bred her" just makes me cringe.

What stallion owner in their right mind would ever breed a 2 year old. That's backyard breeding right there.

And not only that, your mare was bred as a 3 year old. And I've seen in another thread that you are going to breed your mare to another stallion as a 4 year old too? So there's going to be a baby on the ground, sucking this young mare dry, and your going to re-breed her?

Breeding a horse this young is like a 13 year old getting pregnant and having the baby.

Besides the physical aspect, a 3 year old, even a 4 year old is still and sometimes 5 year old are just too young mentally to care for a foal. So your taking an even bigger chance on having the mare not knowing how to properly care for the foal and the foal becoming an orphan.
 
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#4 ·
No! absolutely against it...A 3 year old isn't even done growing yet. She's still a baby in my mind..She's not physically or mentally read to breed..It is a very irresponsible and selfish thing to do. Think about the mare's well being and not just a want to have a foal..
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the opinions everyone. Of course the mare would really be 4 when she foals.It depends on the individual mare I'm sure...mentally and physically. I've know several people that breed at 2 or 3 for foaling at 3 or 4. I just wanted to see how many people are comfortable with it...and more specifically if anyone has had an experience where breeding a younger mare turned out badly as a result of the age?
 
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#8 ·
Well, how it was explained to me by my vet is that the pregnancy doesn't really affect the mare until the last trimester and the mare is a year older by the time she drops her foal. He also said that as long as you feed one well, it shouldn't prevent them from growing normally and I can see how it wouldn't because of my previous mare being bred early and growing out normally. Good groceries go a long way!

I've also seen horses who were bred as two/three year olds who weren't fed anything extra and looked aweful, but it depends on the circumstances.
 
#9 ·
Yes, it completely depends on their care. Your mare looks like she's very well taken care of. But I feel if your going to breed a mare, you should be responsible and wait until the horse is ready, both physically and mentally. Breeding young horses to me, seems like owners are just trying to make money because they have a mare and the stud fee is cheap.

Most 3 and 4 year olds haven't even hit the show ring yet. Therefore what have they proven themselves to be good at? Horses that breed should prove themselves before hitting the breeding shed, so to speak.
 
#12 ·
Yes, it completely depends on their care. Your mare looks like she's very well taken care of. But I feel if your going to breed a mare, you should be responsible and wait until the horse is ready, both physically and mentally. Breeding young horses to me, seems like owners are just trying to make money because they have a mare and the stud fee is cheap.

Most 3 and 4 year olds haven't even hit the show ring yet. Therefore what have they proven themselves to be good at? Horses that breed should prove themselves before hitting the breeding shed, so to speak.

That goes around to the saying that a mare has to have a show record to breed. Why then do we have all these mares who are not broke to ride, but have babies who have won thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars? They were once unproven mares as well.
 
#11 ·
Just to let you all know..I did bring it up as hypothetical. I do have a 3 year old and did look into breeding her this year for her to foal at 4. But I decided against it. I decided to put her in training instead. I was mostly wondering..out of curiosity...if anyone has had a bad foaling experience directly related to the (young) age of the mare?
 
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#13 ·
One lady I rode a horse for last summer said she had a mare bred at two. The mare went into labor about a week after her due date out in the pasture and died with the foal still halfway inside her. I think it was due most likely to exhaustion. They didn't have a taxonomy done on either.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Maybe I'm just dumb but I don't really understand why you would even want to breed a 2/3/4 year old?
Wouldn't the stallion you would be breeding to probably still be around when the mare is older? If you're worried about the stud fee, couldn't you just buy a breeding now and hold on to it until your mare is older (I think studs do that? Letting someone buy a breeding now for later?)...?

Breeding a 2/3/4 year old seems an awful lot like bringing one foal into the world just so it can create a bunch of other foals... That doesn't really make sense to me.

Also, side note, I have seen some fillies that looked gorgeous as youngsters but as they aged and filled out fully, it became apparent that they weren't as A+ as they looked at 2 or 3 years old.

Personally, if I were in the position to breed a mare, that mare (if we forget about the near perfect conformation aspect) would be completely broke, trained in a specific discipline, shown with excellent results (or, in the case of ranch horses and others like that, have been doing her job well and for a long time), and be fully sound even after 10 or more years of hard work (barring any non-conformation-related injuries picked up along the way).
You can't forecast with 100% certainty that a 3 year old filly is going to be an amazing horse in her discipline. You can assume from bloodlines and such but there's no way to tell for sure before she actually gets into training and showing.
Personally, I've seen enough A+ mares that ended up in nasty situations that I don't really see the need to be popping out "maybe's". I can see A+ mare plus A+ stallion as being a good, even great, thing but breeding an unproven mare to a proven [or unproven! o_O] stallion seems foolhardy.


Anyway, that's my little rant. Sorry! :lol:

ETA: Piaffe, I've heard horror stories of young mares getting too tired halfway through giving birth and ending up dying with their baby. However, I don't know anyone who's had that happen and I sure hope that wouldn't happen if there was any sort of mare supervision going on...
Another fact is that at the summer camp I work at, there was this little paint mare who was maybe 2, if that, and she was preggo. That entire summer she was unbelievably tired. She was basically like an old old old horse in the body of a young horse. I'm not sure if that was due to her pregnancy or the fact that we had to ride her anyway in her condition (hate that about this camp!!) but in any case it was sad. I'm not sure what happened to her or her baby since she didn't come back the next summer, but I can't imagine it being anything really great, knowing her owners. :(
 
#19 ·
I know of one underage foaling that wasn't ideal. A Morgan breeder bought a long yearling filly from a different breeder several hundred miles away. The following spring, the new owners were shocked that she was pregnant and she had a small black filly. The mother wasn't quite two years old herself, she did not produce any milk for her daughter, and the little filly had a mountain of vet bills to improve her quality of life (don't remember all the details since it was 10 years ago). Since the the mother didn't have milk, she was placed in the pasture with all the other young stock to run and play like an almost two year old should. The foal was part time bottle fed, part time nursed from a surrogate that had her own foal to feed as well. All we can figure is that the original owners had kept all the yearlings together, including uncut colts.
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#20 ·
Also..since we are on the subject...I have heard breeding horses young can cause "long term" or even "permanent" damage to the mare (back problems,weight problems,bad hips,hard to train,etc,etc.) has anyone actually had this experience? Has anyone ever had a damaged horse because they were bred too young? If so what was the damage? Did the horse ever recover? Again...just curious...
 
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#21 · (Edited)
I'm not sure about the permanent damage and what that could be. The only thing I can think of you could blame solely on breeding would be something uterus-related. If a mare was to go lame or hurt her back, etc, after shes had a brood mare and riding career, you wouldn't really know for sure what caused it unless the consequences were immediate.

Also, IMO, a mare who came back with a bad attitude didn't have a very leaderlike owner and is more likely to have gotten away with bad behavior in the past.
 
#22 ·
I haven't personally bred a horse that young but I have seen and been around horses that were..They can have long term back problems with their muscles and spine, joint problems, I've seen some not be able to be ridden because the problems have taken such a big toll on their body, the mare won't get much nutrients because it's all going to the foal so she can have stunted growth..all around be not as healthy as she should be.
 
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#27 ·
I guess I'm the odd man out. I bred horses for many years, and have bred lots of 3 year olds for foaling at age 4 - never a problem, never a bad back, never a nutrition problem - no problems or issues at all. From my experience, and those of other long time breeders I know and have known, I would dispute these claims as groundless and based upon speculation rather than experience. A foal, and the accompanying afterbirth and fluids as foaling approaches is around 150 pounds - more for large horses of course, well distributed without pressure points as the mare is designed to carry the foal...nothing like carrying 150 pounds on her back, and most people don't think anything of backing a horse at 4 with 150 pounds of rider and tack. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of horses are backed at 3 or 3 1/2 without issues. I don't condone backing 2 year olds, but I always backed mine in the fall when they were 3 1/2 and never encountered any issue at all. All my horses are fully sound, and when I was breeding, all my broodmares were fully sound, and the health of my horses is always my highest priority.

I am well aware of the growth plate issue, and yes, there is some merit to it, but basic logic should tell you mares would not be fully fertile at 2 if their bodies were not ready to handle a pregnancy. I wouldn't breed a 2 year old, but I strongly dispute claims that breeding a 3 year old mare is harmful.

There is certainly nothing wrong with waiting till they are older, but 3 is the recommended minimum age. Here is one reference from the Univeristy of Missouri Extension, which is associated the Univerity's vet school, but there are lots of references out there. I'm sure you can find references to the contrary, but the consensus is it is perfectly OK to breed 3 year olds...
 
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#30 ·
I guess I'm the odd man out. I bred horses for many years, and have bred lots of 3 year olds for foaling at age 4 - never a problem, never a bad back, never a nutrition problem - no problems or issues at all. From my experience, and those of other long time breeders I know and have known, I would dispute these claims as groundless and based upon speculation rather than experience.

I guess this is the main thing I was getting at/wondering. I have always heard the speculations..this will happen or that will happen. But I have never actually known anyone that has bred horses at 3 that has had anything bad happen. Other than things that could happen to a mare of any age. I personally am neither for nor against breeding a horse at 3. Just because I decided probably not to this year doesn't mean I think it would be horrible. Horses in the wild are certainly bred younger (and..please no rants on this..I KNOW domestic horses and wild horses aren't comparable...I'm just saying..their bodies are/seem to be capable of handling it even in potentially terrible conditions.) Most vets that I have encountered also say 3 or older. Again...mostly opinions...which I was I was looking for solid proof/personal experiences that breeding young mares can do more damage to a mare than breeding any other age (older) mare...
 
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#28 ·
Mana's dam, Deja, was bred at 2 and had a foal every year after that until her 9 year old year when I bought her. She didn't seem as though she had any physical damage from it, but it is possible that something will show up as she ages. Poor girl never got to be a baby, herself. :(
 
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#32 ·
Cmarie: theres absolutely nothing wrong with trail horses. I was simply saying not every horse that comes from broodmares that just sit and have babies make it to the show ring. Id bet only 1 out of every couple hundred born will do something in the show ring. And chances are the ones that win hundreds of thousands of dollars arent as common as what some may think.
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#34 ·
Here's what I see when I look at in some people's eyes breeding really young mares........KA-Ching!!!!! $$$$$$$$$ Look famliar? :wink: I couldn't see breeding a two or three year old in general. Maybe a four or five at minimal and only if they're mentally and phsically ready
 
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#42 · (Edited)
And what do you base that opinion on? What is your experience or observation that brings you to that conclusion?

In reality, only a handful of breeders breed for money - those that have massive breeding operations that I equate to puppy mills, and those that breed the very best in their breed and discipline. In the former case you may be right - there are a few large assembly line breeders that breed willy nilly just for volume, making a couple of hundred dollars on each foal and resorting to volume to make up for the low profit margin. But certainly not the latter - breeders of top horses don't breed irresponsibly.

But the vast majority of breeders fall into 2 categories.

First there are the small to medium size breeders that breed anywhere from 2 or 3 to maybe a dozen or so foals a year that are of very good, but not great, quality. Anyone that has experience breeding knows that this category of breeders does not make a lot of money - money isn't really the issue at all. I bred about 10 foals a year for many years (when the market was good), and after feed, vet, farrier, deworming, utilities, vacs, tack, and all the other expenses, I made about $10,000/year. I probably averaged 3 hours a day working with the horses during the week, and maybe another 4 hours a day on weekends. Mrs. Face invested less time, perhaps 10 hours a week. That's around 1700 hours a year. Do the math - that's $5.88/hour for our time...talk about cheap labor...:rofl: While it's true I also enjoyed some tax writeoffs, that was primarily due to my high income level.

Second, you have the breeders that may breed a foal every year or every couple of years, or breed just 1 or 2 foals in a lifetime. They have various reasons for doing this, maybe just for the experience of breeding and raising a foal (which is very rewarding), or replacing a lost horse, or breeding a mare they really like to continue her line - any number of reasons. While this group doesn't have a lot, or any, breeding expertise, and often their breeding decisions are not prudent, they are as entitled to breed as much as anyone else - regardless of what you or I or anyone else might think or believe. We experienced breeders should help and advise them as best we can to help them make the best possible decisions, but it is not, and should not, be within our providence to infringe upon their right to breed. There are wacko exceptions, of course...people that neglect or abuse their horses have no business breeding. In any case, this group is certainly not money motivated...there is no way these people can make money. You cannot breed a mediocre foal, pay for its care and the dam's care until it is sold, sell it, and make any money beyond what might pay for a couple of Big Breakfasts at McDonalds one Saturday morning and the gas to get there and back.

So yes, there are a handful of breeders that might breed young mares "for the money", but I seriously doubt they make up 5% of all people who breed. Thus, I would suggest it is both illogical and inaccurate to generalize and opine that people breed 3 year old mares "for the money".

Most breeders breed for the love of it, and are thankful it is a hobby and passion that pays for itself with a few sheckels left over...which we just turn around and spend on our horses anyway...
 
#35 ·
I have known breeders that have bred 2 & 3 yr olds.The mares did fine & went on to be career broodmares,raising proven offspring. I think often it is a decision to made for each individual,physically & mentally how mature are they? some breeds or lines mature quicker.Personally think 2 is too young:shock: but a 3-4 yr old I would consider.:wink:
 
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#36 ·
I bought my mare at age 15 and started doing some research on her since she is registered. She was born in 1994 and had her first foal in 1997. So she was bred as a 2 yr old.

Then she had a foal almost every year after (10 in all) until I bought her for trail riding. I didn't know her history when I bought her of course, and I had no idea she was bred so much, but honestly other than a bit of a saggy belly (which is toning up nicely with riding) and a big saggy udder, she looks and feels great and she has tons of energy and we go on some pretty long rides.

So she really seems no worse for wear. I know it must have taken something out of her physically, but any 18 yr old that can carry 250 lbs of rider and tack 16 miles in 4 hours (and barefoot to boot) can't be too broken down. And if I am riding with stock horses I have to hold her back the whole ride so they can keep up. :lol:

Her back is fine. A lot straighter than all the geldings I have owned.

So other than a saggy belly and udder you would never know. I do wonder how she ever found time to be saddle broke though! And yes, if it were up to me she wouldn't have been bred so young and so frequently. But I am lucky to have her and feel she has earned her retirement from the breeding business and now has a new career as a trail horse. :)
 
#37 ·
Against it, nothing good can come of breeding so young.
Also why would you want to? You do not even know what the mare really looks like confo wise until age 5 or 6 so you really do not have a good idea of what it is your breeding.

IMHO, no horse should be bred till age 6.
 
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#38 ·
I'm not going to throw my opinion in here since its already been stated, but here's a "fun" little story for ya.

My trainer bought a yearling once. Took me with to go see her. Nicest damn little filly I'd ever seen, sorrel overo, LOUD markings. Stout as a tank even as a yearling. Built to have a stop like a SOB. From breeders we had never heard of before but the price was reasonable, breeding was great, so we both decided to bring her home.

Several months later that filly got a really big belly. So we took her off the round bale and put her in a pasture run. She kept getting bigger.

Finally we had the vet out. Guess what? That yearling we bought was pregnant.

At the end of her term she foaled a little filly almost exactly like herself. Little sorrel overo. We guess that the filly had been bred back to her own father. (By accident we do hope but you never know...) because he was the only stud those people had and was a solid sorrel. The mare she was out of was the overo carrier.

Scary, isn't it? What can happen when you're not careful? I think we're lucky both of them turned out just peachy. The timing she would of had to of been bred would be pretty damn close to the time we went to look at her.
 
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#39 ·
I've tried it and decided that at least my horses aren't mature enough to be mothers at 3, physically and most likely mentally too. I've tried a couple times to breed 3 year old mares but really, never had any success and then waiting til they were 4 or 5, poof, instant success and along with that, never had a maiden reject either.

I also don't believe stallions are mature enough to be breeding mares (mentally at the very least) until at least 4 years old and until they have a good solid start at a discipline. It's cost me breedings, and just cost me another one the other day because I refused to even discuss selling a breeding to my 2 year old cremello stallion. He can be a baby til he's 4, it's ok.
 
#40 ·
I bred my mare at 3years old just because she was broken as a 2year old and I fort I would have a foal of her before starting her career. She took first at stud had a great pregnancy and foaled fine was a great mum and is nw 5 and great
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#41 ·
Personally, I'd breed a 3 yo mare before I would ride her. If she has good nutrition and care and is sexually mature, nothing wrong with it. As has been noted, the size of the foal doesn't have much of an impact until the last trimester when the mare is 4. But, it's like most things and you need to consider the individual. In nature, believe it or not, many, many mares are bred as yearlings and foal as 2 yos. Not saying it should be done, just saying Mother Nature usually has a pretty good grip on things.
 
#44 ·
I have no idea why people think it is ok to breed a 2/3/4 year old when there are not even being broke to ride....(which i dont think is ok a 2!) because in the long run if they are in it for "money" a broke horses usuallys goes for more than a brood mare. I am against breeding a horse that young. EXPECIALLY when there are hundreds and thousands of horses going to slaughter. Im sick of hearing about and seeing the "oopps" babies. People need to be more responsible.
 
#45 ·
They're used to be money once in this life time. I sure couldn't afford to breed ten mares and hope for the best. Personally, I do see a lot of people with dollar signs in their eyes. Obviously its coming from somewhere business or not. You don't make money in hardly anything. You're always paying it to someone or towards something. I'm more comfortable breeding at least four maybe five.
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