Well, you have a trainer, right? Doesn't she/he give you stuff to work on? Collection is pretty high on the traiing scale, so not something one focusses on much at the lower levels.

Would you be referrring to "connection"? meaning, how well he connects and gives to the bit?

His neck shows a little bit of reverse muscling; the underside more muscled than the upper side. this is often indiciatve of a horse bracing against the bit. So, might be a legacy from his time running with his head in the air, especialy if he had a hard hand pulling him backward.

Did you do long and low type work?

 

Well, you have a trainer, right? Doesn't she/he give you stuff to work on? Collection is pretty high on the traiing scale, so not something one focusses on much at the lower levels.

Would you be referrring to "connection"? meaning, how well he connects and gives to the bit?

His neck shows a little bit of reverse muscling; the underside more muscled than the upper side. this is often indiciatve of a horse bracing against the bit. So, might be a legacy from his time running with his head in the air, especialy if he had a hard hand pulling him backward.

Did you do long and low type work?

At the very top of the pyramid in fact. I see "collection" all the time. Hanging on your horses face and kicking them to kingdom come is NOT collection.

Now, I am absolutely not saying that you are doing this at all. I have no idea of your riding ability or background. Just keep in mind that collection is at the top of the training scale and takes a long time to achieve in a true form.

As for your horse, I ride (and am considering buying) a warmblood with a incredibly long back, easily worse than your guy. He is PSG. So in answer to your question, your horse will be able to, but you may need to maintain patience if he is struggling with this conformation at points.

 

Like I said, there can be little comment on his muscling in the first picture as it wasn't taken long after I got him and was directly after his days of running with his head in the air being an absolute dinkus.

I do have an instructor, she herself has very little Dressage background and yes I'm definitely aware it's up there on the training scale, I would like to start working on the 'basics' so when I do begin Dressage training I will have a foundation to work off of. We have been working with connection, he is not 100% consistent, but again- that is one of the building blocks, and I would love help in that area as well.

My coaches primary focus is in the jumper ring, and while she's a wonderful over fences coach we don't work on ENOUGH on the flat, hence the Dressage lessons when I'm not taking any classes and am working more so I can afford them :lol:

I definitely think his previous rider was quite hard handed, did a lot of drill work hanging off of his mouth. He no longer braces against the bit, save for the occasional transition, but is easily corrected. We have been putting quite a bit of focus on long and low.

AND I'm sorry if that post was oddly fragmented, I kept bouncing back up and trying to re-order my thoughts.

 

It definitely is, and it's a long term goal for sure. I'd just like to start setting the correct foundation for collection, and I suppose like Tiny said, work for now on achieving a proper and consistent connection.

That's nice to hear, Drummer. I try not to listen to some of the people I'm getting 'tips' from IRL who think we should leave Dressage to the big Warmbloods and stick to the jumper ring. Well I'd like to event, so it's time to suck it up, lol.

 

Hey! I get the warmblood thing all too well! I raised a reining-bred, grossly croup high QH (Drummer Boy) and took him to showing 1st and training 2nd before I ever considered a warmblood.

In fact, only a small majority of my trainer's client base are actually warmbloods. So I back you 100%

I would say that before you start down the road of collection, make sure your horse is elastic. It seems as though you have already started this process. I see you have started this with the lengthening and shortening of strides. In Training Level, you have to demonstrate a stretch circle, in First, the lengthening (and hopefully shortening:wink of both the trot and canter, and only at Second do you need to actually have honest collection.

I think that it would be good for you to work much the same way. You don't want to sour a horse to shortening his strides by pushing him before he is ready. As frustrating as it can be, these things take time.

I do want to say that I am happy that you are cross-training. I see many (NOT ALL) jumpers/eventers simply survive dressage, rather than reaping the benefits, but, then again, that could just be my severely biased opinion :lol:

 

I've wanted to start cross-training for a long time, but could only afford one lesson a week and didn't want to leave my current instructor and risk losing the discount I'm getting :lol: plus we've built a very close relationship, and I've decided to stick with her as far as she can take me, and once I can afford it just begin taking lessons on top of her lessons. But I honestly don't see what the fuss is with certain riders and surviving Dressage, it honestly excites me when we achieve the 'little' things. He'll give us a few steps of haunches in, shoulder in, etc. and while he isn't strong enough to maintain it being able to get the message across is exciting.

Define elastic for me in your terms? Are we talking adjustability?

 

I jumped for 6 years before I started dressage, and while I still do it for clearing their heads after a hard week, I don't think that I will ever jump competitively again. I am too addicted to those 'little things' you speak of.

By saying elasticity, a lot of what I do mean is adjustability of both stride and frame. Your ability to half-halt and have him shorten his stride with ease is collection. The half halt here is key. That is a concept so incredibly complex, I think my ability to convey that over HF is quite limited. If you do not quite understand a half halt (and you are most definitely not alone!) there are other threads on here, or your trainer may be able to offer you a good explanation. I am however leaning towards believing that you do understand this concept.

 

Also, I have failed to mention the imperativeness of your seat in all of this. Another thing that your trainer would be better to explain while you are under saddle. The half halt is much more from your seat than from your hands.

 

I don't think I'd go that far :wink: Jackson is definitely a jumper at heart, I don't think I could ever give it up competitively.

Half-halts are one of those things that I say I understand, but just can't (yet) find a way to explain them. But that makes sense, adjustability and accessibility seem to go hand in hand, and I can definitely see what you're saying.

So back-tracking a bit, then, to what Tiny brought up (connection). Jackson seems to have this deep hatred for single joints, his previous owner rode him in a single-joint snaffle and a nice, tight flash. Our progression of bits has gone from single joint, french link, back to a single joint (I'll have to post a picture, it was a 'training' snaffle by Herm Sprenger, I really liked it and he seemed to like it a lot more than the first snaffle) and now we've switched to a waterford / bubble bit, which I was a bit weary of, but he seems a LOT more comfortable with more joints in his mouth, and it isn't pinching, so I'll leave it. We've also removed the flash, and he's happy to no longer evade the bit 90% of the time. On the rare occasion that he does toss his head in the air, it's easily corrected, however he's not 'on the bit' 100% of the time which honestly is something I'm not sure how to address.

We work on pushing him forward through seat and leg, and keeping a contact, pushing him forward into the contact and 'playing' with the inside rein. I don't want to say I don't trust my coaches instruction, but I wonder if the reliance on the inside rein is technically 'correct' or if it's just an attempt to encourage a false headset. Especially for a horse who doesn't have the best relationship with contact in the past, recommendations? Exercises?

 

My biggest flaw in my riding is that I rely far too much on my inside rein. Its from "survival riding" in my jumper days.

In fact, you would be far better off 'playing' with your outside rein, though I don't necessarily advocate either. If you want a nice "headset" you should allow the horse to find it himself. When we train all of our greenies, we basically give them their head until they build their balance, and then touch both sides of their mouth to coax the head to a more accepted place. Obviously, the greenies can't hold the roundness, but this creates a situation where, rather than putting their head to a place they think it should go, they put it where it is comfortable.

I try to advert the use of the word of headset, simply because when people around here hear that, they immediately move to draw reins and tie downs. So that may just be me.

Despite the word used, try to dismiss the notion of keeping the head down, but rather working from back to front, and pushing the horse into the bridle while bringing the power from the hind end. The horses that are round this way are the very most correct and will move up the levels much easier.

 

If you want a nice "headset" you should allow the horse to find it himself. When we train all of our greenies, we basically give them their head until they build their balance, and then touch both sides of their mouth to coax the head to a more accepted place. Obviously, the greenies can't hold the roundness, but this creates a situation where, rather than putting their head to a place they think it should go, they put it where it is comfortable.

I try to advert the use of the word of headset, simply because when people around here hear that, they immediately move to draw reins and tie downs. So that may just be me.

Despite the word used, try to dismiss the notion of keeping the head down, but rather working from back to front, and pushing the horse into the bridle while bringing the power from the hind end. The horses that are round this way are the very most correct and will move up the levels much easier.

YES YES YES! Well said! When the power comes from the back and the horse rounds naturally, the results will be much longer lasting (and prettier) than seesawing reins, etc. Once they learn that it is much more efficient traveling rounded, they usually choose to go that way, at least the ones I've worked with. Takes longer, and there are no secret short cuts, but it is sure rewarding when our horses do "find it" huh LMDB? When the guys I ride "find it" I can feel their whole body change, it's a great feeling!