[farmpony84]

Bubba what you posted is some sort of competition that is not Native American. It's definetly a yucky sort of thing though. Yucky yucky...

 

[farmpony84]

Were they actually Indian-made bits or were they filched from the whites?

They were Indian and Mexican made. I don't think I saw any from the English world in the displays.

 

[Allison Finch]

I used to do lectures on early american west horse tack. The two saddles on the front left were womens native saddles. Built very much like sawbuck pack saddles. Men's native saddles wereoften basically padded cushions with or without stirrups.

Any metal bits they had were stolen from the whites. The early bits were often mexican spades. Later the cavalry "S" bits became popular.

At one of the lectures

 

[grayshell38]

Sounds like the way the Mongolians broke their mounts. Pick one out of the herd, rope it, cut off it's mane, slap a bridle on it and hop on! Saddles are very expensive and most do not use them.

 

[bubba13]

Bubba what you posted is some sort of competition that is not Native American. It's definetly a yucky sort of thing though. Yucky yucky...

I labelled it with what it is: Argentinian "gaucho" horse-breaking.

I posted it, as I said before, because someone asked how the Old West cowboys broke their horses. The bucking-out process wasn't entirely dissimilar to the method depicted in the YouTube clips from Argentina.

 

[bubba13]

Sounds like the way the Mongolians broke their mounts. Pick one out of the herd, rope it, cut off it's mane, slap a bridle on it and hop on! Saddles are very expensive and most do not use them.

Catching Untamed Horses - YouTube

Very cool video--thanks for sharing! Though that guy was kind of driving me nuts....made me want to snatch that catch pole out of his hands and give it a go myself.

 

[Mike Zimmerman]

The Indians learned much of their horsemanship from the Spanish. Even though Spanish law enacted in the early 1600s forbid natives from riding horses with a penalty of death, they learned to ride anyway. As was stated earlier any bits were stolen from the Spanish, but many Indians rode their horses with what would be a hackamore, another training tool they got from the vaqueros.
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[bsms]

My son-in-law grew up in upstate NY. In his early teens (about 12 years ago), he was taught to break horses by first getting them about 150 lbs light. When they were weak, get on and stay on as long as you could.

Teddy Roosevelt wrote about it in "Ranch Life and the Hunting Trail"

It sounds like both native Americans and us imports used similar tactics. However, Teddy also said that some horses were broken by their owners for their personal use, and those horses received a lot of time and training.

 

[Skipsfirstspike]

The Indians learned much of their horsemanship from the Spanish. Even though Spanish law enacted in the early 1600s forbid natives from riding horses with a penalty of death, they learned to ride anyway. As was stated earlier any bits were stolen from the Spanish, but many Indians rode their horses with what would be a hackamore, another training tool they got from the vaqueros.
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Regarding whether native americans used white man's bits,etc..
Lets not forget that including what Mike said, the whole concept of riding horses was learned from the Spanish. The modern horse is not native to North America, all of the 'wild ' horses that 'once ruled the range' were not wild at all, but feral descendents of the Spanish Barb, brought over in the 1600s. When the Spanish left, a lot of their horses remained behind, and became what we now call the mustang.
So whether the native americans fashioned their own bits, I don't know, I suppose it would have been easier to use ones aquired from the Spanish. I have heard only a little bit about the 'war bridle', which from my understanding is a rope tied snugly in the mouth and under the jaw, similar to what some of the Argentine riders had in some of the posted videos.
I would think the breaking process would have been swift, severe and efficient. I like to think that they werent treated too badly afterwards, as they would have been quite valuable.
Those are my speculations!

 

[Lins]

By 'indians' do u mean natives? Why do people keep saying 'indian'? Is there really that many uneducated people?
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[Skipsfirstspike]

By 'indians' do u mean natives? Why do people keep saying 'indian'? Is there really that many uneducated people?
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If you want to get technical, it is 'Native Americans', not just 'natives'. :wink:

 

[Lins]

Obviously, figured I should keep it simple for those that can't figure out the difference between people from India and Native Americans.

 

[bubba13]

By 'indians' do u mean natives? Why do people keep saying 'indian'? Is there really that many uneducated people?
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The politically correct term, as chosen by the people themselves, is actually "American Indian."

Native American name controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kevinshorses]

Was there any doubt who we were refering to by "indian". Native American is a pretty broad term. I'm a native to the american continent. Someone born in Mexico or Canada would also be a native American. Most of the indians that I know don't have a problem being called indian. Will Rogers was half Cherokee and he used to jole that he could play cowboys and indians all by himself.

 

[bsms]

The article bubba13 links says, "During the latter half of the 20th century and the rise of the Indian rights movement, the United States Government responded by proposing the use of the term "Native American," to recognize the primacy of indigenous peoples' tenure in the nation. The term has met with only partial acceptance. Other naming conventions have been proposed and used, but none are accepted by all indigenous groups. Typically, each name has a particular audience and political or cultural connotation, and regional usage varies."

There have been many proposed terms, but none have gained full acceptance. "Native Americans descended from those in America before 1492" is kind of long, and still uses a foreigner's term (America).

At this point, I hope those reading this thread will follow a rule I took far too long to learn: "Don't take offense where none is meant." In my experience, there are enough people in life who WANT to offend you. Save your wrath for them.

 

[Cherie]

My husband is a 'Chickasaw Indian' and that is what he calls himself. He said he is not sophisticated enough to be a Native American -- hates the term. Our son is more 'Indian' than his father.

They say the 'Tribes' did not need the alcohol, bread, potatoes, Small Pox infected blankets, Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, drugs or Reservations the whites gave them so they do not need the 'title' either.

 

[bubba13]

Did quite a number on them, huh?

I was talking to a friend at school the other day, discussing classes and scholarships and such, and she tells me she's on a minority grant, which surprised me, because she looks as white as white can be. I asked, and she told me she's 1/64 Choctaw. And that's worth $2,000 a year at a private university! I'm not really sure that scholarship is doing much to right past wrongs, but hey, at least they're trying! But then I started whining, because the Irish used to be very badly discriminated against in this country, and I should be rewarded for that.... :rofl:

 

[Marecare]

Did quite a number on them, huh?

I was talking to a friend at school the other day, discussing classes and scholarships and such, and she tells me she's on a minority grant, which surprised me, because she looks as white as white can be. I asked, and she told me she's 1/64 Choctaw. And that's worth $2,000 a year at a private university! I'm not really sure that scholarship is doing much to right past wrongs, but hey, at least they're trying! But then I started whining, because the Irish used to be very badly discriminated against in this country, and I should be rewarded for that.... :rofl:

And we all know that whiskey was created to keep the Irish from their rightful rule of the world...ha!

 

[gunslinger]

So, my family has been here 10 generations, first arriving in 1680. Wouldn't that make me a "native american"?

I'd say American Indian would be the correct term.

 

[kevinshorses]

My husband is a 'Chickasaw Indian' and that is what he calls himself. He said he is not sophisticated enough to be a Native American -- hates the term. Our son is more 'Indian' than his father.

They say the 'Tribes' did not need the alcohol, bread, potatoes, Small Pox infected blankets, Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, drugs or Reservations the whites gave them so they do not need the 'title' either.

I think about the worst thing that ever happened to indians was the reservation system. Any time a group of people get handouts for doing nothing it destroys the incentive to better themselves.

My parents lived in eastern oklahoma for a while and they learned quickly not to assume that someone wasn't an indian because they looked "white" and had a white name.