P.S. I refuse to hire illegal immigrants to get more bang for my dollar... I just don't want to continue to pay people $24 + for an hours worth of work!!!! Trying to figure out a way to hire someone and not have a huge turnover rate!

 

Subbing, interested what people are going to say..

 

I work off my board, 8 horses in 7 stalls (2 tiny ponies share a large stall) that are on all-day turnout, weather-permitting.

I clean the stalls, water buckets, feed pans, outdoor buckets/troughs, the general "barn" (sweeping and tidying up the mess we get from feeding 3x4x8 bales) and whatever else needs to be done (like filling in the hole to China a gelding dug in his run or yanking up mats to scrape out the muck under them).

Nobody else cleans, so if I do a craptastic job I'm just causing myself more work the next day.

It works well for us, the BO and her husband feed/blanket/turn-out everyone and I do the rest. Everyone pitches in with water bucket/trough filling though.... we live in an extremely dry area and one of the horses (mine of course) is known for refusing to drink from a half-empty bucket.

 

Thanks Delfina... if you were to break down the actual board price/hours worked per month, how much would you be getting paid per hour?

Also... to anyone who read my first rant, please disregard the sentence where said "I know darned well thatthat at other farms, stable hands are paid minimum wage, at best, for their services... right?"... I was ranting and that really doesn't make sense to say because I truly have no clue!

 

I don't know from an ownders POV, but when I was working at the barn I was being paid 13$/hr for work.

 

Were you only cleaning stalls, or were you doing other things, too? Thanks, btw!

 

I was sweeping ailes, tack room, organizing cupboards, harrowing(?) arena(in and out), bedding shelters, taking poop buckets out, and prepping stalls for clinics (disinfecting before and after). Where I board she has a 24 stall barn, but everyone is kept outside in paddocks/pasture. So I only did stalls when I had my guy in, or after clinics when people kept horses over night. I also kept the lounge tidy.


edit: I was also helping with lessons haha.. tacking, helping from the ground, etc.

 

Um.. it's hard to say. Prior to this new arrangement I paid $200 a month (full care but I provide his grain and alfalfa) but that is cheap for our area and the BO realized that and that she wasn't making a cent off of me, so she was going to raise the rates to at least $300 a month (but she kinda filled up the barn buying herself horses! Ooops!).

I would say $300 - $325 would be going rate in my area for the equivalent services at another barn.

As far as how many hours I work? Umm... usually 2 hours a day and I generally skip one weekend day as the horses stay out longer on weekends providing it's good weather. So around 12 hours a week or normal "cleaning" and then usually 5-6 more hours a month on things like arena dragging, fixing things horses mangled and so forth. I also feed/care if she's on vacation which is usually a few weeks per year but she allows me to use her trailer and helps with the occasional training issue as well.

 

I'm not a barn owner, but what you are describing is typical in any labor / service industry.

And, you can allow people to work off their board. You just need more structure.

You can go hourly or per diem with this recommendation. I recommend per diem.

First, create a checklist of things that must be done when cleaning a stall. Don't forget to describe/define the quality standard. A clear photo of a properly cleaned stall may be a good idea.

At the top of your checklist, include the spots to write in the following information:

Worker's name
Stall number (or other identifying detail)
Date and Time Started
Date and Time Ended
Quality Checked by Name
Date and Time Quality Checked
Score: Satisfactory, Needs Work, Unacceptable.
Identify problems
Worker's Initials

Then, you and one or two other people (preferably inexperienced people) perform the checklist, each on a single stall. Time each person.

This is your baseline. If you took 30 minutes but the newbies took 60, then you should know that a person should originally take 60 minutes, but with time and practice may be able to knock it down to 30.

Now, place a value on that stall. Is it worth $5.00? $10.00? What is it worth it to you to not do that task.

Now, implement it. Let's say it's $10.00. A squosh over minimum wage, but a nice round number.

Sally wants to work off board. You tell her for every stall she cleans you will deduct $10.00 from her board. You tell her she can work on Wednesdays from 1pm to 4pm.

When she arrives to work, you hand her the first stall checklist and date and time it. She completes the work. You inspect it. Passes? Move on. Doesn't pass, communicate the errors and let her fix them. You don't sign off a form until it meets the photo (and you have to be fair here).

At the end of the day, you tally up the number of forms she has that are "satisfactory.". That is the amount deducted from her board.

Your problem is nothing unique to you; it is a people management issue.

You can't expect to tell someone to clean a stall and they will clean it to your expectations. You know your expectations and you are willing to modify them based on circumstances. An employee can't know these things. They can be taught these things.

Even if you did say, "do this, do this, do this" a lot of people have problems remembering those details. Technology has ruined us from having to learn and retain.

Adults, especially teens, should have no more than 2 details or instructions provided to them verbally during the learning phase.

Also, cleaning is a subjective opinion and very biased. I have a level of clean that may differ from your level of clean. Are these people really trying to screw you or do they just have different ideas on what a cleaned stall really is? The latter is my first guess. As word gets around that you were not happy with Sally's work, Greg will spend more time doing unnecessary things to try and please you.

Take this for what it is worth. Your problem is a people management issue. Add structure, feedback, and a way for the person to measure themselves and you will find your workers will stop and review the objectives before asking for a critique. The form helps your bookkeeping and let's them know you are being fair and honest.

Good luck.

 

Thanks, AQHSam. We do know that the "people management" on our part is a portion of the issue.

I really like the checklist idea, perhaps that sort of thing will work in the future. We sat down with our most recent help on day one and said "We don't usually allow people to work off board because they start to get lax and don't clean the stalls we need them cleaned. That being said, we will show you and explain what we need to have done..." We then went through and demo'd several stalls for them, explained what we were doing, and for the first month, we'd check every stall. Always around to answer questions, showed them what we wanted them to do, etc.

We would periodically figure out (one) particular thing that was consistently being incorrectly done, and we'd take the people out to the barn, show them (in the stall that they just cleaned) what wasn't done properly. We'd then show them, in that stall, what to do to correct it, then show them again on a "needs cleaning" stall. They'd act like they understood, do it the way we asked for a few days, then get lazy about it again. If we'd show them more than once, they'd act like they had no clue what we were talking about (as though they hadn't been shown/explained this before). The best was when, if we'd show them the SAME THING more than once every two weeks, the people would get a chip on their shoulder, and acted like they were doing us a favor and we should just keep our mouths shut! (P.S. that is when people get told "Sorry, we no longer need your services...")

So, I think the checklist would help solve that problem, and the "employee" would know up front that they aren't being credited for a shoddy, crappy job. However, I thought we were being fair before, and certainly more than generous.

I'm still curious... what is stall cleaning worth?

Sonador: We are not located in Florida, or anywhere the border for that matter!

 

OP Do you live in FL? We have the same problem here, with the immigrents. When I worked at H.I.T.S. years ago, I hung out with a lot of them. lol

 

I do some horse sitting and usually charge $5-6 just for stall cleaning. Most of the people I know in the area charge the same.

 

I know at my barn, someone works off all of their $250 full pasture board. They clean all the stalls, sweep, wash windows, help with turnout, etc. we give her 2 days "training" and tell em flat out - due it right or you're outa here! Checklist works wonders. Its easier for everyone we've noticed
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A large stable needed to hire help and paid by the stall. Someone worked part of the day with the help to show what was expected and in what time frame. This seemed to work for them. No trading chores for a cut in the board bill as someone gets shortchanged. If a boarder opts to do it then pay the person and no hard feelings either way.

 

when i was in college I cleaned about 30 stalls daily to work off board. It took me about 3 hours a day in retrospect. i couldve got a real job probably and just paid board. but then i wouldnt be spending all that time with the horses I was paid 10.00 an hour

 

I worked for a little while (4 months). I only did stalls and scrubbing water bucks and putting the hay in the racks, sweeping up the aisles, dusting cobwebs, etc. (no feeding, turning out, grooming, etc) . The facility was quite large (300 horses), there were a few of us (and we didn't use barrows or anything. there was a gator w/ a trailer that we would put all the manure into, then pull it up further, do the next stall, etc). I worked 8 hrs/day and 5 days a week. I got an efficency apartment including utilities (basic cable, heat, electricity, phone, wifi were included), option to have 1 paddock for a horse w/ run in and hay (grain or stall were extra) and made 8.00/hr for 40 hrs. If i was needed for additional (during foaling season they'd ask for people to come in at night and monitor foaling stalls.. clean up after open houses, come in after show returns to unload, etc) i was paid 12.00/hr. That was when minimum wage was 5.15/hr.. so I would expect to earn more now.

 

I've worked at a couple barns before and I was making anywhere from $10-$12 an hour. I turned in and out horses, fed horses, mucked stalls, swept aisles, cleaned and organized tack rooms, cleaned the lounge area/ bathroom, caught and held horses for vet & farrier, etc.

 

At our barn the stall cleaners work off board or lessons. There are 3 "assignments", each earning about $20/day. Each takes 1.5-2 hours to complete. The BO's husband is quite picky and he will call people back to redo their job if he's not satisfied, or they won't earn their credit for the day. Cleaning includes scrubbing and refilling waters, and that seems to be the part most people want to avoid. Ironically, the worst stall cleaners are boarders, not lesson kids. You'd think it would be the other way around, but it's not.

 

In my experience..."barn help" gets paid in the range of $8 to $12 an hour...with the expectation that an 'average stall' can be thoroughly cleaned in about 15 to 20 minutes. (That's 3 to 4 stalls cleaned per hour - for routine, daily muck-outs.)

Yes, illegals work for less...but in my opinion, it's just wrong to take advantage of people that way.

Hope this helps!

 

Another thing to consider, is to make it worth it to get help out.. the less hours they work, the more per hour they will probably be wanting. It's hard to justify driving somewhere if you are making 8.00/hr and they have 2 hrs worth of work/day.

 

Okay... rant update (sorry, this is probably its own thread)

Thanks for the responses everybody. Eh... the situation I am referring to, the family was offered $3.00 per stall, and we told them that, on a good day, that should work out to about 3-4 stalls per hour (so $9-$12 per hour, so not bad, right?). They were shown and reshown how to perform what was expected of them. All they had to do was clean the stall (no water bucket scrubbing, etc... they didn't even have to re-bed them, we did it). Also, they were here everyday, regardless of stall cleaning or not and only lived about 8 minutes away. We also allowed them to work when it was "convenient" for them, which resulted in these people cleaning their own horse's stall almost every day because by the time they came, all of the other horses were in. Ended up being WAYYYY NOT helpful to us, at all.

Turns out, the family has a serious problem with being respsonsible, apparently. We finally had THE chat with them, after showing/explaining on an almost every-other week basis what they needed to do and what they were "missing". We told the people we couldn't afford to offer them the opportunity to work off board by cleaning stalls, and perhaps we could work out other options, such as picking up bulk bedding for us or something. We tried it... both times the guy went on his own to pick it up, he refused to tie down the load, which resulted in over a 2/3 loss of bedding in one trip (which is a lot when we pay by the lb). I had gone with the guy twice, including the first time during which I explained the need for tarping. Both times I went, I insisted on tarping and tying down the bedding so it didn't float away like loose cash in a tornado (not to mention the tickets you can get for losing your cargo on a road!!!!!). I explained that we couldn't afford to lose bedding on the road and it was necessary to make sure it was secured.

Finally, we told the family "Sorry, we can not afford your help"... we kindly left out the part that it was because really, we can't afford to pay for shoddy, substandard help. We put it in writing, too... and told them we'd understand if they couldn't afford board and had to leave, absolutely no hard feelings. Even invited them to come and use our arena for show tune-ups, since we knew their budget was for pasture board at a place without an arena. We try to keep an open door policy with our boarders, so they know they can talk to us about problems. These people had about 43 days notice that in April they'd be responsible for paying full board (for the month of March they'd still get the credit they'd worked off). We reminded them of their contractual obligation for 30 day notice if they chose to leave (because, you know, we were nice enough to give them time to do this instead of just screwing them and telling them they owe FULL board for 30 days notice, instead of pro-rated with credit for work performed). They came today, handed me an envelope as they were putting their horse on the trailer, smiling and chatting, as fake as can be, and left. I opened the envelope to find a nice and I mean NICE and nasty letter about us changing our contract (which we didn't do, I even gave them a copy of the contract), and a really bizarre and hard to follow "calculation" for additional work they didn't perform and a check for $152.00 less than what they agreed that they owed?!?!?! Not that I'd have wanted them to stay or even leave their horse here any longer (they were just kind of difficult people), but I kind of wish I'd have opened the letter while standing in front of their truck in our driveway so I could have at least claimed our lien on the horse AND equipment as specified in our contract, as a way to convince them to pay up.

My grandfather always told me to avoid horse people because they're crazy. It is has been my experience thus far that, for every 5-6 good ones, there is one really rotten, awful, discouraging one. Ah well... I suppose I'm hoping karma catches up with these people. People management issue, for sure...

 

Warm hugs and horsie thoughts!!

If it helps, I think that you did right by them, and they failed.

You are better off all the way around with them gone. Hope tomorrow is a better day!

 

I wish your barn was where I lived, I'd work hard everyday for the opportunity to have even a small slice of money off the board. I'd do anything you want, hell for the last 3 years I helped out at my pony club doing everything from bringing in horses, taking them out, cleaning, tacking up little kids horses, washing buckets and just anything that needing doing. If I were you i'd get onto those people as they should not get away with it, especially of how generous you really were to them. Your letting them walk all over you, choosing the time to work, choosng how to work, doing what they saw fit, not pushing them to do what you want, letting them pay only a bit of the money they actually owed you at the end? that shows no respect, obviously your way too generous for your own good(please come live here and bring your barn lol, i could do with a friendly barn owner and someone whos very willing) but you should honestly fight back. Horses arent cheap and these people need to realise it, especially for you to run it :/ I have you get your money back..


p.s I am 17 nearly 18 and i get paid at a fastfood place 12 dollars an hour so id say its would be 8-12 an hour but it could be different where other things are involved.

p.p.s When I worked for free at my pony club my instructor made me a deal that if i bagged poo at 2 dollars a bag she would let me have another lesson later on in the day. the lesson was 30 dollars so i had to do 15bags before I could even think about going and asking and we used to do a few more just because the money went to buying new items.

edittedp.p.s.s sorry for all these... you could also try this. we had a competition when you picked up a bag of poo you got a green ticket, the ticket went in to a draw to win something such as a lead rope, a soft brush, currycomb etc and the little kids loved it and would bag poo all day to get as many tickets and as many chances as possible. heres just a few odd thoughts for you, dont know if they will help at all but anyway goodluck!!

 

I clean stalls in trade often for lessons. I get one $40 lesson for stripping and rebedding 8 stalls most times. Sometimes it's heavy picking, always adding new bedding.
Barn owner / trainer is a close friend, I'd do it for free, so I don't know what the "going" rate is, this is just how I do it so i can help her out and she can help me, ya know?
Generally takes me about 3 hours to do them really well, sweep the barn up and wash water buckets in each stall
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Thank you for allof the responses!
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Hello.

I work cleaning several different stables in my area. I get paid between $2.50 and $3.50 per stall in NW Washington. I think it is a reasonable rate. I have several suggestions for you.

First, as has already been stated, you need to be very clear with your employee. They are working for cheap. You learn really quick what kind of a person they are when they're getting small pay. When you are the boss, it's not "You need to do XYZ." It is "You need to do XYZ because I am paying you, and as your boss I will fire you if you are a bad employee." Put that threat out there, don't be afraid to do it. You really should have told your hand that he did a bad enough job that you fired him. Don't beat around the bush with this next time.

As you look for someone else, try to find someone motivated. There are people out there who aspire to become a professional horse person. Find someone with equine goals, professionally or competitively. Are you experienced in training or competition? Find someone who wants to learn from you and they'll give you the best efforts. I'm working towards becoming a trainer in WP and Reining. I clean stalls for a world class trainer in my area, and I learn from her just from chatting while we work around the barn. She pays me cheaply but I appreciate the knowledge more than the pay. I also clean at other stables around the county too. Working around horses is what I want to do, and so I'm doing it at any price. I realise that I've traded a job with money for a dream job, they are not the same thing. A lot of good people are around, sometimes you just have to look. Don't go for the backyard horseman who barely does anything with his horse, he is not invested enough in the hobby to work hard for it.

DON'T PAY AN HOURLY WAGE unless you want a full time employee. A stall cleaner might start out taking 30 minutes per stall, but as their skills and stamina increase it will only take them 15 minutes. If your barn has 12 stalls, 6 hours of work suddenly becomes 3 hours. At an hourly wage, the employee starts getting paid less and less as they work faster and more efficiently. They'll start taking longer and doing a worse job in the stalls to soak up more work hours, which will not be profitable to you. That is, unless you want a full time 7 am - 3 pm employee and you have jobs for them once the stalls are finished... then, by all means, pay by hour. If not, $3 per stall is reasonable imho.

Don't shy away from exchanging your board for their work. This is the easiest way to find that person who wants to invest and work around their horse. Be clear about how much of the board will be knocked off for how much work. Don't give them discounted board until the beginning of the second month. Think of it like a paycheck - you don't get it until after you have put in the hours. If you discount the board for your cleaner, they need to clean this month for a discount on next month's board. This way, if they waffle out on you, you haven't already paid them AND they have already paid the month's board! Even if it's not "real money" you are handing over, you need to make them work for it before you give it to them or you're setting yourself up for a pickle.

I've worked cleaning stalls at various stables for 9 years now, and I've been through various set ups. I hope I helped you in some way, I think I addressed the important parts! If you have any questions I'll be glad to answer.