Oh, and I'll add that sometimes when it feels like she's pacing somebody will point out to me that she's racking. She breaks into a rack more than anything these days. What happened to her flat walk, I wonder?

 

Since she was shown, I believe that she has some fear and resentment. We owned a TWH, that we bought as a 19yo. He was a little bit nervous, but the day that he tripped in our 3 acre north pasture, went down to his knees, and my DH slipped off (not even a scrape), he flew to the corner of the pasture and started shaking. HE was a victim of abuse, probably by a man. We bought him from a women. This was the only real problem that we had with him. He passed away at 24yo.
It could be that they just burned your mare out. Does she have an scarring on her pasterns? If so, we here are well aware of the abuse in the TWH Big Lick show-ring. Now that she is healthy, she doesn't want a rehash. ANYBODY that feels like an experienced rider may be the one that makes her relive the abuse. You will need to start from scratch with her, as if she was never broken, but also understanding that she WAS abused.
I think she could be retrained, like many OTTB's get retrained and completely remade as pleasure horses, which, for them, often means the show ring.
I am taking your word that she WAS shown. If not, then she would need a different sort of retraining.

 

If she was big lick, then she's got a whole host of issues that need to be handled carefully. One thing they do is blindfold their horses and beat them at the canter so they'll "reach", and I heard a story from one owner who picked up a horse that didn't make the cut- horse was extremely head shy, and had to be kept in the barn with the lights on at night because he'd lose his mind at sundown. That might explain why she gets finicky at the evening.

I'm all on board with what corporal said; if you know she was shown big lick, you just need to take her back to basics, and realize that there are some things are going to set her off when you reintroduce the topic to her. It might take the mare a while to settle down, but she will eventually learn that you're not there to make her life miserable.

 

Never heard of big lick horses being beaten around the head , do you have an actual link that goes into this
?
I do know that soring was/is a regular practice, where legs were 'cooked', making them sore, which resulted in the horse lifting those front feet high, and rocking back onto the rear feet to take weight off of those sore front feet
There is also the practice of pressure shoing.
I don't see how beating a horse around the head is going to do anything for action

 

I've wondered about that. I haven't noticed any scarring on her feet, but I forgot to mention that when I adopted her from the horse sanctuary she had a blindness in her right eye that has since almost completely cleared up. It must have been injury-related. Also, she has a fear of being tethered.

On her pedigree papers is the previous owner's name (a woman in my state, but the sanctuary owner says Jubilee was trained by a man), and I've thought about finding her to ask information about the horse's background, since she's the person I'm told owned Jubilee as a show horse and then gave her back to the breeder after a couple of years. But I'm not sure I want to go down that road.

Maybe it's a sort of PTSD thing, hence why Jubilee can be fine one moment and out of sorts the next.

 

Oftentimes , in the world of Big Licks, the owner is that and nothing more, except for the day of the show and the person shows up to get on the horse and smile pretty in the ring.

Meaning, I doubt the owner knows much or would even share anything but, it's worth a try.

I second and third everything the previous posters said.

One other thing I have noticed with some of these ex Performance Walkers, is they have a serious angst or fear about going into a training barn. I say that in case you might want to send her to a trainer. It could very well wipe out any progress you have made. Not saying it would but it could.

I am familiar with a gelding who went berserk when his owner decided to board him at a training barn. Soon as the owner made amends with his sister and moved the horse back to her 40 acres, the horse was fine. She has a nice barn and the horse likes it, he evidently had too many hurtful events in his head from being in the training barn environment

 

Is that what she did for showing?

That's an interesting theory that she senses you are more a rider than a passenger and is rebelling.

I would be curious to see a video, doesn't even need to be of her acting up (though that would be good) I just want to see how you ride her.

 

Here is a video of me riding her one day last summer (the light and distance make it a bit hard to see some details). I had her dressed in her nice tack from the Baroque Horse Store. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IecGUA_WvXk

 

If the horse was BL show horse then it lived a life of "pampered fear." It was trained to do one thing (go forward) and likely had little to no ground work or training in the ordinary things you train a horse to do (turn on direct, open, or indirect rein; do a 20m circle; stop squarely; back up; move laterally; etc.). Your requiring these behaviors, without a proper base being laid, can cause "resistance." This possibility is first because you note that when all the horse has to do is "pack" a rider things are just fine. But ask for exertion and you get resistance. If this is truly what is happening then you've got a training problem not a tack or equipment problem. That's not your fault; you didn't fail to provide the base. But now the horse is yours and you may have a lot of "holes" to fill.

At the age of 12 it will also have pretty well formed habits. One of those can be an "internal clock" that knows how long a work session should be. In a BL barn all work is done under saddle as turnout or even ground work is very dangerous when the horse is "built up." Many barns have lots of horses and that means actual work time might only be 30-40 min. Does the misbehavior occur at roughly the same time in work? Or does it occur when there is a discrete trigger?

Bareback is not necessarily pleasant for a horse because all your weight is concentrated in two, 6" diameter circles on the back. Rope halters can be just fine and can also be torture devices if not properly adjusted and used. The video does not show much about the tack being used, rider skill, rider style, etc.

There is one, darker possibility. You say you "adopted"* the horse. Was it a "rescue" of some sort? Could this behavior be the reason it ended up in a "rescue" barn? Is this behavior something of long standing? If this is true then you might have to make some difficult decisions on how to proceed.

Asking about prior care, training, etc. sounds good in theory but with a BL horse can be an exercise in futility. The owners of BL horses usually know little about their training (unless they are owner-exhibitors). The BL training practices are pretty bad and prior practitioners of these "training" methods will almost certainly lie to you about what has gone on before. I'd not worry about it overly. Treat the horse like you'd treat any other horse with correct riding, tack, and husbandry. This approach gives the highest chances of success.

Good luck in your project.

G.

*In the interests of full disclosure I never use the word "adoption" with an animal. You buy an animal or you lease it; it is property. You don't buy or lease children (at least not since the passage of the 15th Amendment ). You can adopt them. In any case the quality care you give to animals or children is the real issue.

 

I'm guessing she may think you're very "busy" with her. Maybe a throwback to showing maybe not. I'm not convinced it is.

Can you be more relaxed and ride on a longer rein? Don't push so much, work on softness which will help both of you.

This is all going off one video but that's my guess. English riders tend to override, "ride every step" etc. (I am one too ) I'm guessing this mare is just not used to, or not comfortable with that. I'd take a step back and work on being a lower key and less micro managing. Let's say try riding her English style but with a western style mindset and nice long (that doesn't need to mean on the buckle, just relaxed) reins.

 

If she will not flat walk with you she is too excited. Any horse should flat walk whenever asked. With gaited horses that can rack and pace it is very easy to give then signals you don't know you are giving them. Perhaps when you shift your weight one way she thinks you want something you don't. If you ever alternate bumping legs to get her to walk more forward she likely thinks you want her to rack.
As for distinguishing from the rack and the pace the easiest way is to listen. You will hear 2 beats in the pace and 4 in the rack. I good rack sounds like pica-poca-pica-poca

 

Another important thing, I learned this while riding Hackney ponies which are a whole lot of crazy and a whole lot of fun. Horses want to listen to you, also they may be looking for aids telling them what they want to hear. Just like humans they like to be told to do something they want to do, so if your seat is barely suggesting "go forward" the horse might pick up on that and start to move forward. Then if you pull on the reins(not saying you do this) then she may become very frustrated. Though she does not sound like a very forward horse this is able to be translated to many different areas.

 

I'd think this horse needs retraining from scratch if its going to go from being a TWH show horse to being an English riding horse
I rode an Arabian x saddlebred that had been a saddleseat show horse all his life and although he did his best if you started to ride him with too much contact he got very excited and forward going
I wonder if your horse's bad behavior is just her doing the same - getting too hyped up and losing the plot?

 

I'd think this horse needs retraining from scratch if its going to go from being a TWH show horse to being an English riding horse
I rode an Arabian x saddlebred that had been a saddleseat show horse all his life and although he did his best if you started to ride him with too much contact he got very excited and forward going
I wonder if your horse's bad behavior is just her doing the same - getting too hyped up and losing the plot?

2013 Tennessee Walking Horse WGC "I AM JOSE" Trainer's Show 2014 Exhibition - YouTube

Yup, my old Morgan was a saddle seat show horse. He made me look like I knew what I was doing, he was pretty darn fancy but he was BIG on "GO!".. at 13 it was hard and I loved every second of it (though I didn't exactly approach it from the "retraining" perspective lol). (Man I loved that horse XD)

 

Here are some of the abusive methods used by some, to get an exaggerated 'big lick'
I see nothing about beating a horse over the head at a canter, and can't see the mechanics of how that would even achieve reach.
Not saying some idiot might not have done that, just that I can't find any info, nor heard of it before




EXPOSED! Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration: Celebrating Cruelty? | One Green Planet

 

Did the OP say for sure the horse was shown in the past? Missed that.
In any case, we have a few walkers that were not shown previously. They go fine for us down the trail, but my step daughter, who rides dressage/jumping/cross country, seems to have trouble with my mare. I would say she is the better rider for the most part, but I also know that our horses came to us 'rough' broke. In other words, they will go where pointed, but have not been trained to give to pressure. Ask them to side pass, disengage hind quarters etc, all they want to do is move forward.
So the mare is fine with me because I would just sit and enjoy the ride, while step daughter was asking for movement with her legs, which the horse didn't understand, and therefore got frustrated.
We have since been spending a LOT of time in the round pen going back to basics on getting the horses soft and responsive.

 

Don't have but the one video, so don't know how much of a problem this is, but your hands coming down from the canter are very jiggly, horse may be fed up with that.

To get softer hands, walk around house with 2 full cups of hot coffee, the motions you take to keep it from sloshing out on your hands and wrists are the same ones need to develop good hands as a rider.

It divorces, if you will, your hands and wrists from elbows and shoulders.

Need more video to see what is going on, but the hands deal really sticks out.

How long has it been since teeth were done?

 

SincerelyAmanda you could reach out to

Ivy Schexnayder 815-733-8040


ivyshorses@gmail.com

Gaited Horse Specialist - Ivy Schexnayder

I used several of her training guides on my Walker who was a show lick horse. He was so spooky, shy, and just horrible to be around on the ground. I have had huge success with my horse in softening him and getting him to relax thus so he is neck reining now and I do ride him with leg commands especially on the trails. I found that patience, gaining trust, and lots of consistency will bring your horse around. I love my big boy and especially love the compliments I receive when riding him on the trails. Good luck to you.

 

OP, can't manage a horse than no one else seems to have trouble with and its all of a sudden a result of abuse? Who ever said this horse was a big lick horse? TWH can be shown in any manner of class and competition. Way to many people try to over ride gaited horses, and blame the horse when things go wrong.

jim