I have never encountered that problem but if I did, I would have the vet check the horse for glandular issues

 

Hot water and vinegar wash can help but it won't keep him from producing all the excess. It can be seasonal for some horse and others it is a year round issue. Some of my uncles TBs back when he was racing had it show up mostly on the face and withers. I would think like people it could be hormonal changes, diet (missing or imbalanced vits and mins), stress or some other environmental cause.

 

Now that you mention it, the gunk seems to be mostly concentrated around the topline. Withers, neck and croup. But your hand will also get gunky if petting his barrel or flank, if you pet him long enough. His chest seems to be the only area that isn't gunky.
@walkinthewalk What kind of tests can my vet perform? After reading on another site that oily coat can accompany metabolic issues I did some reading on IR and cushings but he doesn't display any of the other symptoms so I don't think that's it. I'm not even familiar with glandular problems … what would be some common ones?

-- Kai

 

Now that you mention it, the gunk seems to be mostly concentrated around the topline. Withers, neck and croup. But your hand will also get gunky if petting his barrel or flank, if you pet him long enough. His chest seems to be the only area that isn't gunky.

@walkinthewalk What kind of tests can my vet perform? After reading on another site that oily coat can accompany metabolic issues I did some reading on IR and cushings but he doesn't display any of the other symptoms so I don't think that's it. I'm not even familiar with glandular problems … what would be some common ones?

-- Kai

1. I might start with having his thyroid tested. Also the ACTH test for Cushings to establish a baseline, even if it doesn't show anything.

Very early indicators of Cushings often get missed and even blood tests won't show anything until the horse is starting to have shedding issues and possibly developing that Yak-looking coat we associate with Cushings.

2. There is such a thing as equine "glandular ulcer syndrome", that can affect hair coat.

https://www.succeed-vet.com/education/equine-gi-disease-library/gastritis/eggus/. But this article doesn't say HOW it affects the coat.

IMHO, there is an internal reason for the on-going greasy coat, no matter what you do. I would initially get the vet involved but don't be surprised if all you get is a shrug of the shoulders. General vets often miss key underlying issues in a horse, until it becomes a big problem.

You may have to be your own detective --- especially if tests don't show anything. It could even be something as simple as being mineral deficient or mineral toxic:|:|

 

It is a necessary "evil". It is what waterproofs your horse. Some horses produce more than others. All horses have it. Think of the build up between a mare's utters. Things likely to aggravate a teen's skin diet wise can be the same culprits horse wise. I'd look at diet first and if there are things that have a hormonal effect, higher in sugars or may cause an imbalance do some adjusting. Asking your vet for a metabolic panel could give you some clues about how he is faring in that department.

 

@walkinthewalk I have absolute certainty that any vet I take him to around here is going to give me the "aw, shucks" routine, unless I want to shell out over a grand to take him to a specialist. I agree with you though, that it's an internal thing - my guess is diet, or something related to diet, like mineral absorption/deficiency/toxicity. From everything I've read Cushing's seems to be an "old man" disease, and as Thunder is still a 2 year old I don't think it's that. It could very well be, but I doubt it. He displays several of the symptoms conditionally - i.e. he DOES grow a very long coat during the winter BUT he sheds out normally every spring. He DOES tend to get hot in the summer and drink lots of water, but when it's 90 degrees and humid who can blame a draft horse for being hot? They're not good heat horses in the best of times. He has a big appetite BUT he's a draft horse and drafts eat more. Etc etc etc. Personally I don't think these necessarily mean he has Cushing's … but it does seem like rather a few coincidences so I do feel it's worth looking into.

-- Kai

 

@Kaifyre, well that's disappointing (the vet) but unfortunately it's common.

Even though he's only two, I would still feed him as if he has metabolic issues. He does sound like his DNA is heading him down that path

He is still growing so that's a dilemma, as far as feeding --- you can't just strip him back to everything with low NSC and soy-free because I don't think there IS a product out there that would be suitable for a two year old.

You might call HorseTech and talk to them. They have pretty good customer service. Their 800 number is at the very top.


This is the vIt/min supplement I feed both my horses; one is insulin resistant the other a very easy keeper BUT they are also 23 & 24. It costs about .70 cents per horse, daily.


https://horsetech.com/high-point-grass

Something else you could do, is chop up watermelon AND the rind and feed him a measuring cup or two every day, until the weather cools down ----- well maybe a little more if he likes it ----- my 1,100 pound Walking Horses have each been getting 1-3/4 cups daily.

My lameness vet is also very savvy on diet. He suggested feeding watermelon to my IR horse a few years ago to help keep him cool during our hot months.

You have to chop the rind up small enough to where your horse won't choke. Even though he's a Big Guy, he is only two and likely in the process of losing his caps. Chopping the watermelon rind to the size of your thumbnail would be safe.

It turns out there is human research on watermelon. It is good for diabetics because it (and also the rind) contain citrulline, which somehow helps convert arginine to stabilize insulin. I once found a study in horses but I haven't been able to find it again

At any rate, a couple cups of chopped watermelon & rind daily may not help the greasy cost but it might help cool him down internally

Do you have a shelter and a way to hook up a barrel fan? Those little box fans don't do squat, IMHO, to help a horse. Both my horses have their own 36" barrel fans, set on outdoor heavy duty timers. They can come in the barn at will to stand in front of the fans during the day. They get stalled at night with the fans aimed at them.

Yesterday (Tuesday) was a horrid humid day with the dewpoint close to 70%, they barely broke a sweat because they spent most of the day in front of the fans; I always have a bit of hay for them to munch on. Great to keep the horse flies off them, too.

This is my IR horse thoroughly enjoying his fan after a shower to knock the snot (sweat) off him, earlier this summer -- DH said he looks like a shampoo commercial, lol

My point is that I do everything within my means to keep their stress levels as low as as possible -- if the stress is low, the metabolism is more likely to behave better. This horse foundered really bad in 2012 and the rehab farrier at that time cut too much heel in one strike and literally tore his tendons (confirmed with ultrasounds by a livid vet).

I thought I was going to lose him but he kept getting up and fighting. The vet said "give him six months and we will talk about it them". That was November, 2012. This foto was early summer 2018. The money I have in ancillaries, vet bills, meds almost broke the bank. My own labor costs would have bought me a very nice used truck. That is also him in my avatar.

 

@walkinthewalk, love that picture!!!

 

Thunder does have shelter - he's got a stall attached to a long run so he can come and go at will throughout the day. He spends about 90% of his time in the stall, in the shade, partly since it's cooler and partly since he's got hay in there which he grazes on and pees on all day. Sigh. Thunder doesn't much care for watermelon but I can go get some and try it again. Last time he sniffed, took a lick and walked away. My horses are weird, they don't like "real" foods like apples, carrots and watermelon …. they prefer treats that come in bags and have like 290 ingredients. A barrel fan would be hugely appreciated I'm sure, and maybe I can angle it so that Dreams will catch some air too … but there are no outlets anywhere near their stalls so I'd have to use an extension cord … is that acceptable or do barns and extension cords not mix? I could hang it up and out of the way so that no chewing would be happening.

Feeding as though he has metabolic issues is going to be difficult. I'm only there once or twice a week now and since I can barely get the BO to feed the proper amounts, I highly doubt any soaking is going to happen. The hay my guys are on is good quality grass hay, and I have the BO give both of my boys Calf Manna (the closest thing to a ration balancer I could get in that tiny town) every day. Now that I look at the label again (https://valleyvet.cvpservice.com/product/view/basic/6190003) the main ingredient is corn so that's probably not going to work for a horse with metabolic issues. Sigh. I'll start searching again for products that could be used as a ration balancer … That town carries pretty much sweet feed and senior pellets and not a whole lot in between. But next time I'm there I'll do some digging.

-- Kai

 

-----

Thunder does have shelter - he's got a stall attached to a long run so he can come and go at will throughout the day. He spends about 90% of his time in the stall, in the shade, partly since it's cooler and partly since he's got hay in there which he grazes on and pees on all day. Sigh. Thunder doesn't much care for watermelon but I can go get some and try it again. Last time he sniffed, took a lick and walked away. My horses are weird, they don't like "real" foods like apples, carrots and watermelon …. they prefer treats that come in bags and have like 290 ingredients.

A barrel fan would be hugely appreciated I'm sure, and maybe I can angle it so that Dreams will catch some air too … but there are no outlets anywhere near their stalls so I'd have to use an extension cord … is that acceptable or do barns and extension cords not mix? I could hang it up and out of the way so that no chewing would be happening.

you could use an extension cord as long as:

1. The electric to the barn is on a breaker box and not a fuse box.

2. The extension cord is a heavy duty OUTDOOR extension cord and as short as you can get away with, from the fan to the plug.

3. You could also wrap duct tape at the hook up of the fan and the extension cord.

4. A sealed motor fan is pretty expensive but it would be the safest.

Feeding as though he has metabolic issues is going to be difficult. I'm only there once or twice a week now and since I can barely get the BO to feed the proper amounts, I highly doubt any soaking is going to happen. The hay my guys are on is good quality grass hay, and I have the BO give both of my boys Calf Manna (the closest thing to a ration balancer I could get in that tiny town) every day. Now that I look at the label again (https://valleyvet.cvpservice.com/product/view/basic/6190003) the main ingredient is corn so that's probably not going to work for a horse with metabolic issues. Sigh. I'll start searching again for products that could be used as a ration balancer … That town carries pretty much sweet feed and senior pellets and not a whole lot in between. But next time I'm there I'll do some digging.

-- Kai

there is nothing wrong with feeding senior pellets to a young horse, except for the additional fat calories. Most often senior feed is healthier, often uses a different protein source than soy, and generally has a good list of vit/min supplements. If it is locally made, you would have to read the label carefully and ask if the ingredients and analysis are guaranteed.

I would also shy away from any horse feed made at a facility that also makes cattle feed or feed for any ruminants as they put monensin (sp?) or other such additives in ruminant feeds that will kill a horse in short order.


I love Montana ---- I think I'll just keep a Montana dude ranch vacation on my bucket list, instead of thinking I might want to live there with my horses in the warmer months, lollol
.

 

The amount you are giving in Calf Manna shouldn't be an issue. I like ProAdd Ultimate but still add the Calf Manna to give it the flavor of the CM that all of mine seem to really love. The taste of the ProAdd not so much. Can you get Horse Manna? I would think if anything was an issue it would be the soy - both of those have it first. Still the amount you are feeding it isn't all that much. What is he eating? Grass hay? Supplements? I really wouldn't worry. It sounds more like a build up issue. Drafts, IME - limited though it is, especially the clydes and shires tend to be coarser coat wise and have more oil than other draft breeds. It is also seems to be more noticeable when younger.

 

There is a noticeable difference in the feel of the coat between an aquaintance's Clydes and the Percherons on the same farm; perhaps as QtrBel says, Shires are similar. Are you still in contact with his breeder? If not, I'd ask other Shire folks if this is something they've also noticed.

 

^ I thought the winters in NW Montana were highly preferable to winter in Iowa, FWIW..... scenery, less wind, nice days in among the cold ones, etc.

 

@QtrBel I can indeed get Horse Manna, that's what I had them on originally. I made the switch to Calf Manna after checking the ingredients and finding the only difference being that Horse Manna has no selenium and Calf Manna has 0.1 ppm. And Calf Manna is cheaper. Thunder was just as greasy on HM as he is now on CM. All he gets for feed is grass hay, CM and the occasional handful of alfalfa as a treat. No other supplements, except for a mineral block. His coat is definitely on the coarse side, especially his long guard hairs.
@SilverMaple I have sent a message to his breeder to see what she thinks. I can't remember what her other Shires felt like when I stroked them … though I don't remember my hand coming away black like with Thunder so I don't think they were as gross as he is? I suppose I could stop by and fondle her mares lol … And uhh, NW Montana may have nice winters but Eastern Montana definitely does NOT. Last winter was relatively mild, and during a two-week stint between January and February the temperature never climbed above 15 degrees below zero. That's not including wind chill, which can be considerable. Generally speaking the thermometer never climbs above freezing between New Year's Day and March 1st.
@walkinthewalk Okay I will check and see how the electrical situation is and check into getting a fan … Now that the summer is winding down I will probably be able to get a decent deal on one for next year. If Calf/Horse Manna isn't a good feed, I can definitely switch to a senior feed. The feed stores in that town all carry between 3 and 5 different varieties of senior something-or-other. I checked the labels again for Horse/Calf Manna and neither of them has monensin in them. Calf Manna is marketed as a multi-species feed suitable for horses (they are listed first on the bag) so I would assume that it is safe, but we all know what assuming does. I chose it because it seemed like the best feed for a draft, more like a ration balancer than any other feed I could get there, but if it's a terrible choice I'll change it. lol Montana in general is pretty awesome but EASTERN Montana is basically the surface of the sun during the summer and Antarctica in the winter with about three days of good weather in between, and a population of approximately no one. I live in central Montana now and the move has brought a marked improvement to the weather situation. And the tack store situation … and the availability of pretty much everything situation.

-- Kai

 

@Kaifyre. What I meant about monensin or something similar is that once in awhile horse feeds that are made on site where cattle feeds are made, might sometimes be mixed in the same vat(s).

If those vats are not completely cleaned and sterilized, even the most microscopic amount of monensin getting into the horse feed can kill a horse.

Monensin and other such additives are never intentionally added to horse feed --- the feed makers know the consequences, so you would never see it listed.

The accidental mixing has cost enough horse life in recent years, that people stopped buying any type of horse feed that is made on the same site as cattle feed. One reason to be especially alert regarding locally made feed

It's great you have several brand choices available. Without Googling, I have a feeling one of those brands might be "ADM". They make quality horse feed BUT they are one of the brands where there was an accidental mixing additives for ruminant animals into the horse feed and horses died. That death is also tortuous.

I stopped feeding bagged feed or ration balancers some years back due to having two metabolic horses. If I hadn't had to do that, I would have stopped anyway, thanks to the recent feed scares. It's just as easy for me to buy a complete vit/min supplement for metabolic horses on line from Horse Tech.

Just for kicks, HorseTech has an 800 number. If you get some free time during business hours, I might call them and chat with someone regarding this greasy coat issue. They may be able to offer help, whether you buy something from them or not. FWIW, they do custom mixes for horses with unique vit/min deficiencies

****
Great idea to try and find a barrel fan on sale now, for next year. We mostly use 36" barrel fans, but have a 42" barrel fan that does double duty as a hay dryer (high humidity in Tennessee and a horse cooler, lol. I am only 5'2" so the 36" barrel fans are a lot easier for me to move around.

We WERE buying them from Tractor Supply but after the last two had motors go south, we have bought our last fans from Northern Tool.

We abuse our fans terribly once the hay gets put up. This year the high/heat humidity arrived in May and we are still dealing with it. ATM, the fans are set to run from six in the morning until one in the morning with only a 90 minute break around supper time.

We do go thru belts, so as a result, keep a supply on hand, lollol. This is season three and so far the motors are still running like the Energizer Bunny, whereas the TSC fans would have burned up with all this continual use.

 

CM is meant to provide amino acids (two - lysine and methionine), concentrated digestable enegry sources for calories, and put a bloom on the coat. It is not a ration balancer and is meant to be fed alongside a good quality forage or feed. It gives the boost some horses need performance wise.



If he needs weight then look for something like Purina Senior Active. If he doesn't then the Senior is a lower calorie choice but it may be a true ration balancer is what you need. You have a couple of choices with many manufacturers. Purina has Enrich which is a palatable pellet that you feed a pound (average size horse) or Free Balance which is a 2 ounce serving but you may have issues with them eating it if you don't mix it in with something like a pelleted feed or alfalfa pellets or cubes (moistened).

 

If ADM is available in your area then see if they have PrimeGlo. I'd ask about the line it comes off of as I am also leery of ADM for the reasons above. I have a friend that feeds this and loves what it does for her horse.

 

@walkinthewalk Ah. Got it. I've never seen any ADM feeds at the stores in that town but I'll give it another look-see. We've mostly got Purina and SafeChoice, and assorted locally available feeds that I'm leery of for a number of reasons, chief among them being they tend to not carry the same feed for more than 6 months before the formula is changed or swapped for something else. Thanks for the tip about HorseTech, I will look them up and see if I can give them a call next week sometime. I'll see what I can find in the way of barrel fans … I might be able to find something pretty nice actually.
@QtrBel I know CM/HM isn't a true ration balancer, but it was the closest thing I could find in my limited area. Le sigh for crappy choices. This moose definitely doesn't need weight … straight grass hay just barely isn't enough to keep him in good shape but more than a very tiny amount of alfalfa sends him into Blimp Mode. I find that CM keeps him looking good without making him portly. I will have to see if I can order Enrich … I should be able to since the local stores carry Purina products but I've never seen Enrich around.

-- Kai

 

As you say Nutrena Safe Choice is also an option you could also look into Empower Topline Balance. We have had issues for the better part of this year with suppliers. I have never fed the Enrich but do use the FreeBalance for my two blimps that are on pasture 24/7 and little else (InLaws add it to AllStock - constant battle over this but the horses are on their property LS). I have used Empower when I couldn't get CM and find it works well. The CM was mostly for nostalgia. I love, love, love the smell and used to feed it to my saddle horses when I lived in Tx. All they got was grass pasture and/or hay and CM with a bit of oats to keep them coming up. One of the users here loves Pennwoods and I have seen horses looking absolutely fabulous on it (mostly draft owner friends in Tx) but cost wise I can't justify it. I started using ProAdd Ultimate when the Empower wasn't available and went back to CM as a flavor enhancer because the ProAdd isn't their fav though it has really performed best overall. You could look into cost to ship if the feed store won't order it in. When I priced shipping vs local availability there was only a $5 -$10 difference in total cost. Last I checked home delivery was $47.95 total cost (product plus shipping) vs $42 if I went to the feed store.